Job security - arne
- Thread starter LeTallecWiz
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I am surprised most people don't get this. Managers, like people, don't exist in a binary state of good or bad. There is a continuum.
Most good managers can contribute to and take advantage of a good environment and ride that wave. Slot is a good manager; Rodgers was a good manager. When that environment or that perfect set of circumstances doesn't exist anymore due to various reasons, you often see the results collapse.
Great managers can bend the environment to shape success through tactics, personality, and sheer force of will. Since I started supporting Liverpool, we have had two great managers - Klopp and Champions League Rafa.
Some of us have been posting doubts since the PSG game and have been accused of being reactive, throwing toys out of the pram, by the usual set of superfans. The only response we got was that you need to be loyal.
I deeply respect Slot and will be forever grateful to him for delivering the PL. He did not turn into a bad manager over the summer. He is as good as he was last season. He is now in an environment where his tactics are no longer working, and he doesn't have the answers. By the way, Slot may turn out to be a great manager in 10 years' time. But for that, he needs to make mistakes and figure things out.
Klopp worked brilliantly for us because we got him at the right time in his career. Klopp, directly out of Mainz, might not have been a success for us. We are too big a spotlight for a young manager to figure things out.
This is the best post I've read on the situation bar bodgers being a good manager
PAUL JOYCE: Arne Slot’s to-do list: get Isak running, drop Konate, beef up midfield
Defensive troubles
Liverpool are on course to concede 63 goals in the league this season; they have not leaked that many since 1964-65 (73 across a 42-game campaign).
The vulnerabilities that Forest exposed were evident last season and the inability to stem the flood of goals does not reflect well on Slot or his players.
Ibrahima Konaté has been in protracted contract talks for more than a year and his deal expires next summer. If Liverpool announced today he had extended his stay, there would hardly be an outpouring of relief. The France centre back needlessly conceded a corner from which Forest opened the scoring and his performances are increasingly haphazard.
Konaté finished the 2023-24 campaign out of the team under Jürgen Klopp and behind Jarell Quansah, who has since joined Bayer Leverkusen, but he appeared rejuvenated under Slot in the first half of last season. Uncertainty has since reared its head again.
Joe Gomez has played only 43 minutes in the Premier League this term and if the manager does not trust him to bolster this defence, at a time of injuries, then what is his role at the club? He could play against PSV Eindhoven on Wednesday, given the strain on resources, but will he be rewarded if he plays well?
Liverpool have started a defensive rebuild with the signings of Milos Kerkez, Giovanni Leoni, who suffered an ACL injury and is out for the season, and the goalkeeper Giorgi Mamardashvili forming part of their £450million summer splurge. But that has only scratched the surface.
Regardless of what happens with Konaté, 26, Liverpool need to recruit a centre back who can compete for a starting berth. But if Slot’s side, now in the bottom half of the table, are not in the Champions League next season, does that compromise their attractiveness? Gomez had interest from AC Milan and Brighton & Hove Albion on deadline day and probably needs a move next summer. Andrew Robertson is in the final year of his deal. Conor Bradley’s injury problems are a concern and constantly repositioning Szoboszlai at right back removes too much from the midfield. Van Dijk and Alisson will each have one year left on their deals come the summer.
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Slot has lost the Midas touch
The head coach retains the backing of the Liverpool hierarchy and he deserves that support given it is only seven months since he won the Premier League title. There is an appreciation of what a summer of transition entails — Liverpool went from having a settled team to a big influx of new players on the back of significant outgoings — and the challenges it creates. For instance, Isak and Wirtz have played together for only 267 minutes.
But Liverpool cannot keep losing. Slot must prove his conviction that “there is a way out, especially with the quality players we have” is correct.
There were listless displays last season but, more often than not, the Dutchman’s half-time team talks or in-game tweaks provided a solution to problems. Of late, he has identified the issues but been unable to come up with the answers. His Bazball-style substitutions have become counterproductive and the same mistakes keep on happening. In their past 30 matches across all competitions, Liverpool have won 14, lost 14 and drawn twice. Slot’s credit in the bank will not last for ever.
View: https://x.com/borbely_imre/status/1992930169485754469
Defensive troubles
Liverpool are on course to concede 63 goals in the league this season; they have not leaked that many since 1964-65 (73 across a 42-game campaign).
The vulnerabilities that Forest exposed were evident last season and the inability to stem the flood of goals does not reflect well on Slot or his players.
Ibrahima Konaté has been in protracted contract talks for more than a year and his deal expires next summer. If Liverpool announced today he had extended his stay, there would hardly be an outpouring of relief. The France centre back needlessly conceded a corner from which Forest opened the scoring and his performances are increasingly haphazard.
Konaté finished the 2023-24 campaign out of the team under Jürgen Klopp and behind Jarell Quansah, who has since joined Bayer Leverkusen, but he appeared rejuvenated under Slot in the first half of last season. Uncertainty has since reared its head again.
Joe Gomez has played only 43 minutes in the Premier League this term and if the manager does not trust him to bolster this defence, at a time of injuries, then what is his role at the club? He could play against PSV Eindhoven on Wednesday, given the strain on resources, but will he be rewarded if he plays well?
Liverpool have started a defensive rebuild with the signings of Milos Kerkez, Giovanni Leoni, who suffered an ACL injury and is out for the season, and the goalkeeper Giorgi Mamardashvili forming part of their £450million summer splurge. But that has only scratched the surface.
Regardless of what happens with Konaté, 26, Liverpool need to recruit a centre back who can compete for a starting berth. But if Slot’s side, now in the bottom half of the table, are not in the Champions League next season, does that compromise their attractiveness? Gomez had interest from AC Milan and Brighton & Hove Albion on deadline day and probably needs a move next summer. Andrew Robertson is in the final year of his deal. Conor Bradley’s injury problems are a concern and constantly repositioning Szoboszlai at right back removes too much from the midfield. Van Dijk and Alisson will each have one year left on their deals come the summer.
=====
Slot has lost the Midas touch
The head coach retains the backing of the Liverpool hierarchy and he deserves that support given it is only seven months since he won the Premier League title. There is an appreciation of what a summer of transition entails — Liverpool went from having a settled team to a big influx of new players on the back of significant outgoings — and the challenges it creates. For instance, Isak and Wirtz have played together for only 267 minutes.
But Liverpool cannot keep losing. Slot must prove his conviction that “there is a way out, especially with the quality players we have” is correct.
There were listless displays last season but, more often than not, the Dutchman’s half-time team talks or in-game tweaks provided a solution to problems. Of late, he has identified the issues but been unable to come up with the answers. His Bazball-style substitutions have become counterproductive and the same mistakes keep on happening. In their past 30 matches across all competitions, Liverpool have won 14, lost 14 and drawn twice. Slot’s credit in the bank will not last for ever.
View: https://x.com/borbely_imre/status/1992930169485754469
Slot slammed for 'classless' antics as Liverpool hold 'emergency' talks
Manager’s behaviour in May blamed for starting the club’s current malaise
www.standard.co.uk
View: https://x.com/____PM1O/status/1921996071976272164
Slot's second season is in stark contrast to his first, when he stormed to the title with little competition from rivals. The celebrations began early for the Dutchman and his squad, with Arne Slot pictured in Ibiza during the run-in, in which Liverpool failed to win any of their final games of the season.
Manchester United legend Paul Scholes believes the rot started then, with Slot's "disrespectful" and "classless" antics catching up with the squad.
Scholes said on The Good, The Bad & The Football: "I think this started towards the end of last season, do you remember when they won the league? The bad form started, they went away, went to Ibiza or something. Honestly, Arne Slot was DJing.
“DJing in Ibiza. But that’s, that’s before the season’s done, that’s what I mean, I think that’s disrespectful that, before the season’s done, I think it’s classless that."
is that his reaction to being subbed? i heard a few people mention him smiling, ridiculous.
Slot slammed for 'classless' antics as Liverpool hold 'emergency' talks
Manager’s behaviour in May blamed for starting the club’s current malaise
View: https://x.com/____PM1O/status/1921996071976272164
Slot's second season is in stark contrast to his first, when he stormed to the title with little competition from rivals. The celebrations began early for the Dutchman and his squad, with Arne Slot pictured in Ibiza during the run-in, in which Liverpool failed to win any of their final games of the season.
Manchester United legend Paul Scholes believes the rot started then, with Slot's "disrespectful" and "classless" antics catching up with the squad.
Scholes said on The Good, The Bad & The Football: "I think this started towards the end of last season, do you remember when they won the league? The bad form started, they went away, went to Ibiza or something. Honestly, Arne Slot was DJing.
“DJing in Ibiza. But that’s, that’s before the season’s done, that’s what I mean, I think that’s disrespectful that, before the season’s done, I think it’s classless that."
I bet that even his playlist is also utter shite.
It is, but like, so is ending every game with like 4 strikers on because we don't have a fucking clue.
@peekay You know you said we didn't sign players with pace, but Frimpong, Isak and Ekitike all have pace. Dom and Gakpos aren't slouch. I think there is solutions in the squad, its upto Slot to discover it.
Right now we can't seem to pass it, we get pressed and we capitulate. We are at 6s and 7s on set pieces. If there is a ball over the top, our defenders aren't getting back on time, its upto the GK to save it, or the opposition last ball is awful.
Does the appointment of Von Bronckhorst have anything to do with it? The last Asst is free, maybe rehire him? I don't know. Whatever Slot is trying doesn't work.
I am more than happy to blame metaphysical and supernatural forces but the truth is what ever Slot is doing is not working. Replacing the backroom staff for more competent ones is an option
Right now we can't seem to pass it, we get pressed and we capitulate. We are at 6s and 7s on set pieces. If there is a ball over the top, our defenders aren't getting back on time, its upto the GK to save it, or the opposition last ball is awful.
Does the appointment of Von Bronckhorst have anything to do with it? The last Asst is free, maybe rehire him? I don't know. Whatever Slot is trying doesn't work.
I am more than happy to blame metaphysical and supernatural forces but the truth is what ever Slot is doing is not working. Replacing the backroom staff for more competent ones is an option
Where's the resident dunce?
If this is true, he is gone by tomorrow morning
View: https://x.com/indykaila/status/1993817083210027492
View: https://x.com/indykaila/status/1993817083210027492
Konate isn't the reason why we're losing! JoGo is made of Weetabix and sometimes does a great impression of Bambi on ice. The whole team is rotten. Slot needs to go, and get someone else in.
Iroala is probably the next choice considering Hughes' connection. My issue with him is he shows defensive fragility. Right now a traffic cone would be better than Slot. Sort that out and we have a chance
Last week I said that flying a plane under normal conditions and getting it out of a near stall are 2 different skillsets and like most managers Slot lacks the latter one - but after tonight I’m thinking that there is something specifically about Slot and his management style that made the “stall” much worse than it had to be.
You can be a cold-blooded tactician and a disciplinarian all you want - many managers fall into that category - but at some point you need to give some empathy to the players, give them a reason to give a shit about you. Rafa could be cold and unfair at times, but at the core he had that empathy and players and fans felt it. Does Slot? We’re not seeing it and instead what we’re seeing on the pitch is players going through the motions and waiting for this nightmare to be over - there is no pride, no anger, nothing. It’s exactly like the last stage of a relationship when one of the partners simply tunes out. At this point I’m sure there is no way out for Slot.
You can be a cold-blooded tactician and a disciplinarian all you want - many managers fall into that category - but at some point you need to give some empathy to the players, give them a reason to give a shit about you. Rafa could be cold and unfair at times, but at the core he had that empathy and players and fans felt it. Does Slot? We’re not seeing it and instead what we’re seeing on the pitch is players going through the motions and waiting for this nightmare to be over - there is no pride, no anger, nothing. It’s exactly like the last stage of a relationship when one of the partners simply tunes out. At this point I’m sure there is no way out for Slot.
I’m all for giving people a chance to right their wrongs — but what has Slot actually shown over these months to justify that chance, especially at the expense of our season?
Surely the recruitment team would’ve aligned with Slot before moving for our targets. Weren’t there reports of conversations between him and Wirtz that helped convince the player to join? So while integrating new signings (especially from different leagues) is never easy, it’s not as if he was caught off guard. And with managers like Iraola at Bournemouth and Le Bris at Sunderland integrating new players into the starting XI smoothly, that excuse loses even more weight.
It’s not just one or two players underperforming — it’s a whole group. That doesn’t absolve the players of blame, but it does point to a deeper issue.
And then there’s the bias shown toward or against certain players, plus the mismanagement of our youth talents (e.g. throwing Nallo into games - 2 dismissals in 2 senior games, without prioritizing his development). If star players who delivered trophies for the club can be clamored to be dropped, why is it a problem to sack a title winning manager (sounds like taking credit away from him but worth noting that last season's 84 pts would have got us finishing 3rd in the league, in Klopp's last season in charge (82 pts). Klopp points totals- 99, 97, 92 = 1 PL title) who’s clearly struggling and looking increasingly out of his depth?
As for the argument that Liverpool isn’t a sacking club, sticking to that principle for its own sake doesn’t guarantee success — wasn't Klopp criticised at times for being too loyal to certain players. (And while it’s a different context altogether, look at how Leverkusen’s management cut their losses with ten Hag. Since the change, the new manager has gone P13 W10 D3 L2. They were brave enough to recognise their mistake and act on it.)
in case there's any need to prove that most of us aren't knee jerkers
e.g. re young players' development
e.g. re bias
Surely the recruitment team would’ve aligned with Slot before moving for our targets. Weren’t there reports of conversations between him and Wirtz that helped convince the player to join? So while integrating new signings (especially from different leagues) is never easy, it’s not as if he was caught off guard. And with managers like Iraola at Bournemouth and Le Bris at Sunderland integrating new players into the starting XI smoothly, that excuse loses even more weight.
It’s not just one or two players underperforming — it’s a whole group. That doesn’t absolve the players of blame, but it does point to a deeper issue.
And then there’s the bias shown toward or against certain players, plus the mismanagement of our youth talents (e.g. throwing Nallo into games - 2 dismissals in 2 senior games, without prioritizing his development). If star players who delivered trophies for the club can be clamored to be dropped, why is it a problem to sack a title winning manager (sounds like taking credit away from him but worth noting that last season's 84 pts would have got us finishing 3rd in the league, in Klopp's last season in charge (82 pts). Klopp points totals- 99, 97, 92 = 1 PL title) who’s clearly struggling and looking increasingly out of his depth?
As for the argument that Liverpool isn’t a sacking club, sticking to that principle for its own sake doesn’t guarantee success — wasn't Klopp criticised at times for being too loyal to certain players. (And while it’s a different context altogether, look at how Leverkusen’s management cut their losses with ten Hag. Since the change, the new manager has gone P13 W10 D3 L2. They were brave enough to recognise their mistake and act on it.)
in case there's any need to prove that most of us aren't knee jerkers
e.g. re young players' development
e.g. re bias
Hiding in Ange's arse.
I don't really see that slot is doing things so wrong with team selections, I mean, I think he just has got things wrong in all different ways including with this in the past, but I think it's almost totally irrelevant.
What he's got wrong is we play like we don't have a coach at all. I wouldn't hire anyone involved in any aspect of our coaching setup. We are less fit than with klopp, the fitness of key players has not been managed correctly, we can't defend set pieces, we can't defend in general, we can't press. Our build up is worse and clueless. Worst of all the culture of excellence and ceaseless focus has been utterly debased, and that does start with our canter to the league last year.
There have been many canaries in many coal mines but maybe we should have also noticed last season when we got knocked out of the cup. Last season worked because of muscle memory, not great coaching. When random teams went out to play instead of a very settled and overplayed 11... it looked random. Now we have a new group of players, and it has looked random at best. The players we bought are technical too, but not individually technical. For it to all have worked we'd need especially brilliant coaching.
I don't get why it has to be spiteful, I don't get why we should hate him, but I also have to say that I don't think that we need to somehow massive weigh him winning the league either. I just don't think history works that way. Sometimes there are monumental people. Then other times there are just lucky people in the right space and time. I don't think it's weird to look at what has happened and give less and less credit to slot for the league last year, I think it's totally normal, and can be a rational position that isn't borne of any Ill will at all, or lack of appreciation of the event.
What he's got wrong is we play like we don't have a coach at all. I wouldn't hire anyone involved in any aspect of our coaching setup. We are less fit than with klopp, the fitness of key players has not been managed correctly, we can't defend set pieces, we can't defend in general, we can't press. Our build up is worse and clueless. Worst of all the culture of excellence and ceaseless focus has been utterly debased, and that does start with our canter to the league last year.
There have been many canaries in many coal mines but maybe we should have also noticed last season when we got knocked out of the cup. Last season worked because of muscle memory, not great coaching. When random teams went out to play instead of a very settled and overplayed 11... it looked random. Now we have a new group of players, and it has looked random at best. The players we bought are technical too, but not individually technical. For it to all have worked we'd need especially brilliant coaching.
I don't get why it has to be spiteful, I don't get why we should hate him, but I also have to say that I don't think that we need to somehow massive weigh him winning the league either. I just don't think history works that way. Sometimes there are monumental people. Then other times there are just lucky people in the right space and time. I don't think it's weird to look at what has happened and give less and less credit to slot for the league last year, I think it's totally normal, and can be a rational position that isn't borne of any Ill will at all, or lack of appreciation of the event.
