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Job security - arne

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The changes that were made this summer were necessary though, for different reasons. And if we're honest there are a lot of factors to why things aren't working now. But the hole that Slot has dug himself into and the stubbornness shown these last few months have to result in him getting fired in the immediate future to get this club back on track.

The squad though, with a few tweaks, is more than good enough and filled with quality and young talent.
Might just need a new manager and fresh ideas to get the best out of them going forward.
 
Hansern said:
The changes that were made this summer were necessary though, for different reasons. And if we're honest there are a lot of factors to why things aren't working now. But the hole that Slot has dug himself into and the stubbornness shown these last few months have to result in him getting fired in the immediate future to get this club back on track.

The squad though, with a few tweaks, is more than good enough and filled with quality and young talent.
Might just need a new manager and fresh ideas to get the best out of them going forward.
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Slot hasn't a clue, his style has been figured out but he sticks to it. We are press, set piece and counter attack vulnerable but he does nothing to combat it. He has the personality of a wet tea towel, none of the boys will jump through hoops for him.
 
There's all kinds of stories floating about out there at the moment but one thing I read, which made some sense, was the loss of Heitinga. The suggestion being that he was the guy who kept the players sweet and allowed Slot to be more removed. We had a wobble under Rafa when Pako Ayesteran left, and that was probably something similar as Rafa was a notoriously poor man manager.
I remembered reading something similar about Sven when he was in charge of England, and the suggestion was that Sammy Lee and Steve McClaren (good coaches, not good managers) basically acted as "middle management", absorbing all the whinging from both Sven and the players, filtering out anything that wasn't going to help. They were supposedly really popular with the players and allowed Sven to function without having to deal with the all the peripheral shit. They allowed the players to have their voices heard without Sven having to hear something he'd have then held against them.
So I wonder if there is something in that, as a lot of the problem at present seems to be a disjointedness between the players and the manager, which is probably putting more pressure on Virgil to act as the middle man, which in turn is affecting his form.
It's not an excuse for the current situation, but it may be a factor.
 
Regardless of squad upheaval, integrating players etc... this group should not be 10 points off the top, below fucking Everton, Palace, Man United, Sunderland etc etc in December. They should be able to defend a corner. They should be able to swing one in. They should be able to defend full stop. They should be able to look occasionally like a cohesive attacking unit. We've been getting worse for a year. Slot was found out in February. Not all of that is on Edwards and Hughes.
 
Halmeister said:
Does anyone actually still want him here now? I knew it was bad, but without those late winners in the first 4 games of the season, we'd be joint 17th on 15 points. Maybe he can fluke our survival like he did the league last year.
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I Do Love GIF by The Bachelor
 
Halmeister said:
Does anyone actually still want him here now? I knew it was bad, but without those late winners in the first 4 games of the season, we'd be joint 17th on 15 points. Maybe he can fluke our survival like he did the league last year.
Click to expand...

I know a few people who want to give him until the end of the year, regardless of this season's outcome. Jota's death, doubts over his involvement with the main signings, and the title win are their main reasons. It's not a view I share, but I get it. Generally speaking, there's usually a bit more patience in the city than you see online, but I think even the most staunch of his supporters are in that silent, non-committal stage. You mostly get the 'it's in everyone's interests that we start winning football games" comments, rather than wading into why and how that looks pretty damn unlikely.
 
I don't get Slot having credit for winning the league but Mo doesn't despite him winning it almost single handedly.

Imo the biggest differences in performance between this year and last are that Mo isn't nicking us games (possibly because there's no consistency at RB and everything is going through the unimpressive Wirtz) and Konates form (because he doesn't have any competition after flogging Quansah and not getting in Guehi, as well as him running down his contract).

Bbc stats say we should have three more 'expected' points and be in third. I'm not buying that as we were lucky in those first few games. I bet the data nerds lap it up though as confirms their own optimism bias in their own decision making.
 
Al_Gatto said:
I don't get Slot having credit for winning the league but Mo doesn't despite him winning it almost single handedly.

Imo the biggest differences in performance between this year and last are that Mo isn't nicking us games (possibly because there's no consistency at RB and everything is going through the unimpressive Wirtz) and Konates form (because he doesn't have any competition after flogging Quansah and not getting in Guehi, as well as him running down his contract).

Bbc stats say we should have three more 'expected' points and be in third. I'm not buying that as we were lucky in those first few games. I bet the data nerds lap it up though as confirms their own optimism bias in their own decision making.
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We're 5th for expected goals for and 3rd for expected goals against. We should be doing much better than were we are at the moment with this squad, and we certainly shouldn't be 9th and 10 points behind The new Stoke.
As said there are loads of factors to why it isn't going that well at the moment, but there isn't a way back for Slot regardless imho. We just look badly coached and unable to perform at the highest level under the current manager.

We get beat in almost every metric in regards to running and winning duels, in every game. That isn't sustainable.
 
Al_Gatto said:
I don't get Slot having credit for winning the league but Mo doesn't despite him winning it almost single handedly.
Click to expand...

Mo didn't win the league single handedly. I fucking hate this way of looking at football. Diaz changed positions and did tons of work cobbling together and attack in service of salah. Szobo played cm and RB at the same time. Gravenberch was a revelation and ran his legs off. The entire team has to compensate for what mo will not and can no longer do. It can't anymore.

That's why he's on the bench. We can no longer field a structurally sound team with him out there, and he can't score the goals to compensate for it.

And there is no "credit". We are paying him shit tons for what he can do NOW, which is fuck all. He was given a third of a season playing undeservedly, every fucking minute. And no, slot has no credit either, not in terms of actual footballing decisions, staying or going.

We can deal with the other kind of credit for Salah when he's gone. He should have never been here this season, and I don't think he should have been here last season. If you want to rebuild a team you don't anchor it strategically to a player who is plummetting in physical ability. The rebuild has been delayed in so many ways due to lack of investment, but Salah was the chief one.
 
Farkmaster said:
Mo didn't win the league single handedly. The entire team has to compensate for what mo will not and can no longer do. It can't anymore.

That's why he's on the bench. We can no longer field a structurally sound team with him out there, and he can't score the goals to compensate for it.

And there is no "credit". We are paying him shit tons for what he can do NOW, which is fuck all. He was given a third of a season playing undeservedly, every fucking minute. And no, slot has no credit either, not in terms of actual footballing decisions, staying or going.

We can deal with the other kind of credit for Salah when he's gone. He should have never been here this season, and I don't think he should have been here last season. If you want to rebuild a team you don't anchor it strategically to a player who is plummetting in physical ability. The rebuild has been delayed in so many ways due to lack of investment, but Salah was the chief one.
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Last season Mo scored as many goals (29) as the next highest PL scorers - Diaz (13), Gakpo (10) and Diogo (6) - combined. 'Winning it almost singlehandedly' is hyperbole but there's an element of truth there.

I don't see why the team couldn't 'carry him' defensively now if they did last season. The biggest change is Isak and Wirtz brought in to share the goal burden, yet both have offered less goal threat and defensive work than Mo.

Tbh I'm happy Mo spoke up cos at last someone is showing a bit of passion and anger at the shittiest string of results in any of our lifetimes.
 
Al_Gatto said:
Tbh I'm happy Mo spoke up cos at last someone is showing a bit of passion and anger at the shittiest string of results in any of our lifetimes.
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That is crazy.

He didn´t say anything until he was dropped.

His comments had nothing to do with the results, they had to do with his own interests, nothing else. Just as they always have, when he´s done this in the past.
 
Al_Gatto said:
Last season Mo scored as many goals (29) as the next highest PL scorers - Diaz (13), Gakpo (10) and Diogo (6) - combined. 'Winning it almost singlehandedly' is hyperbole but there's an element of truth there.

I don't see why the team couldn't 'carry him' defensively now if they did last season. The biggest change is Isak and Wirtz brought in to share the goal burden, yet both have offered less goal threat and defensive work than Mo.

Tbh I'm happy Mo spoke up cos at last someone is showing a bit of passion and anger at the shittiest string of results in any of our lifetimes.
Click to expand...

He scored 20 non penalty goals last season. Over the course of the season he had a very good season, but he was given every single indulgence and every latitude. He had half a great season, and half a mediocre one. He´s continued that form and even worse. He´s not even a good forward on current form.

Diaz had an excellent season last year, but his remit involved all sorts of thankless work so that Salah can be described by you as ¨singlehandedly winning the league.

I didn´t think it was a great season from him, I only thought it was great in the context of him clearly being in precipitous decline.
 
I don't get the notion Pens are worth less. Pen's require a certain kind of mentality to step and take, plenty don't want it and are no good at it. Ask Nunez on his pentalty record with LFC, a pen requires time to think and a plan and not just reaction. Would have been nice if we had few pen takers against PSG in that second leg.
 
I do think a lot of the pens we've conceded this season have been soft, however.
 
Al_Gatto said:
I don't see why the team couldn't 'carry him' defensively now if they did last season. The biggest change is Isak and Wirtz brought in to share the goal burden, yet both have offered less goal threat and defensive work than Mo.
Click to expand...

Have you not watched any of our matches this season? Mo just haven’t been very good.

Mo’s couldn’t even trap a ball in some games. That City full back totally snuffed Mo out as an attacking threat, and whilst doing that he was running down the other end helping Doku double up on Bradley.

Mo was benched for good reason. He didn’t say anything when he was one of Slot’s favourites, but the moment he was a sub, couldn’t wait.
 
Jesus Christ.

Salah was the difference last season for sure. The where so many times he won us games single handidly last season with his goal, assists and goal contributions.

He had the title won by the end of march and without him, we would been have no where near it..

So it's not Hyperbole to suggest he was in the main responsible for winning the title..

Diaz was key too.. losing him and sadly Jota and replacing them with 3 players that like to play centrally has fucked us over big time..
 
6TimesaRed ⭐ said:
Jesus Christ.

Salah was the difference last season for sure. The where so many times he won us games single handidly last season with his goal, assists and goal contributions.

He had the title won by the end of march and without him, we would been have no where near it..

So it's not Hyperbole to suggest he was in the main responsible for winning the title..

Diaz was key too.. losing him and sadly Jota and replacing them with 3 players that like to play centrally has fucked us over big time..
Click to expand...

And this year he's one of the main culprits we're out of the race by Christmas.
 
Holle said:
And this year he's one of the main culprits we're out of the race by Christmas.
Click to expand...
Have you seen how the bald fraud has set us up tactically this season.. Seriously ?

Players are all over the place...

Salah is absolutely not one of the main reasons.
 
Tinto said:
Have you not watched any of our matches this season? Mo just haven’t been very good.

Mo’s couldn’t even trap a ball in some games. That City full back totally snuffed Mo out as an attacking threat, and whilst doing that he was running down the other end helping Doku double up on Bradley.

Mo was benched for good reason. He didn’t say anything when he was one of Slot’s favourites, but the moment he was a sub, couldn’t wait.
Click to expand...

Have you not watched Isak, and to a lesser extent Wirtz, stink the place out? Yet they haven't been dropped. Neither has Gakpo or Kerkez or Mac. That's my point here. It does feel like Mo is being scapegoated.

But we're probably losing games because of our shaky defence more than our tepid attack. That starts with the attackers but it feels more a systemic issue.
 
Al_Gatto said:
Have you not watched Isak, and to a lesser extent Wirtz, stink the place out? Yet they haven't been dropped. Neither has Gakpo or Kerkez or Mac. That's my point here. It does feel like Mo is being scapegoated.

But we're probably losing games because of our shaky defence more than our tepid attack. That starts with the attackers but it feels more a systemic issue.
Click to expand...

We don't know what's gone on behind the scenes but unless Slot is blanking him / calling out / whatever else, sitting on the bench for 3 games - one of which he got 45mins - is not scapegoating.

Kerkez is rotating with Robertson.

Mac has been in and out.

Gakpo he's starting to sub off now.

But either which way, is the manager not entitled to try something new for a couple games? Should there be a list of options that we run through before Mo gets some bench time? Or should Slot run things past Mo first? Why not make Mo the player/manager and be done with it?
 
Holle said:
Seriously, have you seen Salah play?
Click to expand...
Have you seen Gakpo play, have you seen Kerkez play, have you seen Wirtz play ?

Have you seen Gravy play. Slot has him playing further forward this season.

Macalister hasn't been great either.

Have you seen Konate play ?

Have you seen Isak play, though he is not getting the service from out wide..

They have all been utter garbage

Gravy not been too bad tbf.. but he is not protecting the back line.

Salah imho has suffered he lost his RB in Trent, his right hand man in Jota, Diaz, Nunez, his mate Tskimas and the kid he had under his wing in Elliott..

And the team lost its press, pace to play tippy happy slowball backwards passing shiteball

Everything that supported his game gone.. effectively

That's down to the shite tactics of the Dutch Bald Fraud..
 
Farkmaster said:
Mo didn't win the league single handedly. I fucking hate this way of looking at football. Diaz changed positions and did tons of work cobbling together and attack in service of salah. Szobo played cm and RB at the same time. Gravenberch was a revelation and ran his legs off. The entire team has to compensate for what mo will not and can no longer do. It can't anymore.

That's why he's on the bench. We can no longer field a structurally sound team with him out there, and he can't score the goals to compensate for it.

And there is no "credit". We are paying him shit tons for what he can do NOW, which is fuck all. He was given a third of a season playing undeservedly, every fucking minute. And no, slot has no credit either, not in terms of actual footballing decisions, staying or going.

We can deal with the other kind of credit for Salah when he's gone. He should have never been here this season, and I don't think he should have been here last season. If you want to rebuild a team you don't anchor it strategically to a player who is plummetting in physical ability. The rebuild has been delayed in so many ways due to lack of investment, but Salah was the chief one.
Click to expand...
A-fucking-men
 
Farkmaster said:
That is crazy.

He didn´t say anything until he was dropped.

His comments had nothing to do with the results, they had to do with his own interests, nothing else. Just as they always have, when he´s done this in the past.
Click to expand...
You're right and he should have stayed professional but I'm just glad that somebody is shattering the illusion that everything is fine and if the squad work hard enough then it'll come good as Slot will find solutions. I'm not convinced and I don't think the squad are either. We're four months into the new season with no green sprouts that I can see. (Assuming the malaise didn't start long before this season.)
 
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