Job security - arne
- Thread starter LeTallecWiz
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I got it wrong. I mean, we're still 4th and comfortably behind Villa, but it's only after having played just one game more. And it's only 10 points behind first. Also having played a game more. So, it's all peachy. Wait until Salah is back 👍🏼
SO what's happened lads. This is a summary of his time at Feyenoord.. supposedly his team was known for being attacking? Today we looked like we were playing u10 football, with everyone crowding into the same space around the ball, and no consistent width
Under Arne Slot (2021-2024), Feyenoord transformed into an exciting, possession-based attacking team, winning the Eredivisie in 2023 and reaching the Europa Conference League final in 2022, known for high pressing, structured build-up (often a 4-2-3-1 diamond in attack), and developing talent, with Slot praised for clear tactics and strong man-management before his move to Liverpool.
Key Characteristics of Feyenoord under Slot:
Under Arne Slot (2021-2024), Feyenoord transformed into an exciting, possession-based attacking team, winning the Eredivisie in 2023 and reaching the Europa Conference League final in 2022, known for high pressing, structured build-up (often a 4-2-3-1 diamond in attack), and developing talent, with Slot praised for clear tactics and strong man-management before his move to Liverpool.
Key Characteristics of Feyenoord under Slot:
- Attacking Football: Emphasis on high pressing, quick transitions, and intricate passing to break down opponents.
- Tactical Identity: Often used a 4-2-3-1 formation, evolving into a diamond in the opponent's half for build-up, with a strong double pivot in midfield.
- Build-Up Play: Focused on creating numerical superiority and combinations, utilizing central defenders and midfielders in possession.
- Player Development: Known for improving individual players and fostering a strong team spirit, making them feel secure and confident.
- Eredivisie Title: Won the Dutch top-flight title in the 2022-23 season.
- UEFA Europa Conference League Final: Reached the inaugural final in 2022.
- Excellent Communicator: Provided players with clear game plans and motivation, fostering a performance-oriented mindset.
- Adaptable: While having core principles, he adapted tactics and player roles effectively.
- Good Man-Manager: Known for empathy, handling off-field issues well, and balancing humor with seriousness.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrT7lnTuDTU
This highlight reel unfortunately looks like us, sort of.
Lots of goals scored with fantastic shooting outside the box (yeah i know we're not scoring many bangers, or many at all)
Quite a few with the winger cutting in then either crossing to the back post os shooting, a la Gakpo or Salah.
Comparatively few really nice passing moves
Not many with real width
Virtually no fast breaks or through high turnovers.
Of course could just be the editting, but if you were to put together 30 "good" goals and wanted to demo why we are shite, this video would be it.
You can see why we are struggling. We're doing all the stuff on this video, but it's predictable and the opposition can stop the cutting in and crossing, and get in the way of our shots from outside the box.
Lots of goals scored with fantastic shooting outside the box (yeah i know we're not scoring many bangers, or many at all)
Quite a few with the winger cutting in then either crossing to the back post os shooting, a la Gakpo or Salah.
Comparatively few really nice passing moves
Not many with real width
Virtually no fast breaks or through high turnovers.
Of course could just be the editting, but if you were to put together 30 "good" goals and wanted to demo why we are shite, this video would be it.
You can see why we are struggling. We're doing all the stuff on this video, but it's predictable and the opposition can stop the cutting in and crossing, and get in the way of our shots from outside the box.
Overall vs 24/25 vs 25/26
Calendar Year Table (League Games only) - 2025 to 2020 in descending order
Calendar Year Table (League Games only) - 2025 to 2020 in descending order
Yesterday should be a wet dream for most folks...
Salah out. Cody benched. Macca benched. Isak out. Frimpong played on RW. Chiesa and Ngumoha made an appearance.
Slot put out the lineup that everyone wanted but I guess it's still not enough?
Slot looks clueless, but it is not due to the lack of trying. Truth is we are just not very good now, the players play a big part as well.
Salah out. Cody benched. Macca benched. Isak out. Frimpong played on RW. Chiesa and Ngumoha made an appearance.
Slot put out the lineup that everyone wanted but I guess it's still not enough?
Slot looks clueless, but it is not due to the lack of trying. Truth is we are just not very good now, the players play a big part as well.
It's what's happening off the ball and out of possession which is most concerning. First, off the ball... No-one making intelligent runs, so no passing options for the midfield. The reason it's going side to side is we've stopped running. Then out of possession we don't anticipate any second balls so we don't win them. We don't press anymore. All the energy is gone. These are all coaching problems. We used to do them all, we were the best at them all, now we don't even bother. This is why he should have been sacked a while ago, but since he's still there he has had time to change things and turn it round. He's been given time, he's done nothing with it, please fire him asap.
Its including the game yesterday so very must in the hear and now.
Fuck knows. As I’ve said all season it’s too soon to judge this season with all the changes and injuries we’ve had. I’ll judge him at the end of the season abut I fully expect us to have CL football and go very close if not win the CL.
Except you know go unbeaten in 8 games, climb from 12th to 4th all while beating Madrid, Villa and Inter.
I wanted him gone and replaced with an interim because I genuinely could not see where the next result was coming from, and it felt like we were heading towards a full implosion. Missing out on Champions League football looked increasingly likely, which would have been pretty disastrous given the level of spending in the summer. Since the Inter game, though, he has put together a run of results that I would have expected from any interim or new manager against largely average opposition, so he deserves some credit for that. He has made us harder to beat, and after regularly conceding three goals a game, clean sheets should not be brushed aside. There were always going to be spells where we became too solid and too uninspiring, leading to games where we failed to score. That happens. It is even more understandable when we accept that the summer recruitment, particularly in attack, has not delivered what we hoped it would. The culling of the set-piece coach also shows we're not tolerating mediocrity for the sake of it. But despite all the above, I'm no more bullish about Slot's long-term prospects here, and I wouldn't be entertaining talks about a new deal.
I don't think the players look fit enough. I suspect we're not as intense in training because Slot cannot burn out the 14 players he's confident to actually use, but that's backfiring. There are too many times I'm wondering what our game plan is, other than pass it up the pitch and move the ball side to side and I have no confidence whatsoever he can bring in a 18-21 year old player, from the academy or externally, show patience and improve him, which given our traditional model of working is pretty important in making a competitive squad but also generating income for the club to keep us competitive. Each passing day, I feel we're moving away from some of the core principles that made us successful. This isn't just an attack or critique of Slot - it's equally directed at Hughes and Edwards, who deserve equal scrutiny for instigating or allowing these to occur. Hopefully, I'm wrong, and things are a little better and more productive behind the scenes, with enough good work being done to justify the degree of patience shown during a very turbulent period. However, as fans, we can only call it as we see it from match day.
I don't think the players look fit enough. I suspect we're not as intense in training because Slot cannot burn out the 14 players he's confident to actually use, but that's backfiring. There are too many times I'm wondering what our game plan is, other than pass it up the pitch and move the ball side to side and I have no confidence whatsoever he can bring in a 18-21 year old player, from the academy or externally, show patience and improve him, which given our traditional model of working is pretty important in making a competitive squad but also generating income for the club to keep us competitive. Each passing day, I feel we're moving away from some of the core principles that made us successful. This isn't just an attack or critique of Slot - it's equally directed at Hughes and Edwards, who deserve equal scrutiny for instigating or allowing these to occur. Hopefully, I'm wrong, and things are a little better and more productive behind the scenes, with enough good work being done to justify the degree of patience shown during a very turbulent period. However, as fans, we can only call it as we see it from match day.
It’s like some people look at teletext and think we are doing ok. We are fucking awful. Just less awful than some shite opposition.
I think the general standard of the Premier League looks pretty shite this year, too. We were all creaming ourselves over Iraola a few months back, and they're languishing in 15th, shite like Sunderland and Everton are 7th and 8th. The new coach at Brentford, who has never managed a game of football before, has gotten Brentford the best start in their history. Villa are swatting away teams with complete ease. Not dismissing what they've achieved, but it shows there's ample opportunity for clubs to overperform. It's partly why we're in the CL spaces and still have decent chances of making it. In some Premier League years, our performances would probably have us languishing in eighth or ninth rather than fourth.
I don't understand much of what's going on at Liverpool at the moment.
The squad management in the summer was weird and has predictably ended up causing problems.
Half the squad have looked / look unfit. We are awful tactically.
If we're on a journey, nobody seems able to figure out what our destination is.
The squad management in the summer was weird and has predictably ended up causing problems.
Half the squad have looked / look unfit. We are awful tactically.
If we're on a journey, nobody seems able to figure out what our destination is.
How was the pressing?
How was the attacking movement?
How was the urgency of the play?
How was the speed of the play?
It's like the LeBron debate on NBA 'forums' - narratives instead of (at times really interesting) discussions on things that worry us about where the club is going currently.
I think it's been mentioned in the post match thread via tweets, but aside from all the tactical and man management deficiencies (which are glaring issues in their own right), there's also the stylistic and cultural differences which further highlight how this isn't a good fit.
There's a certain idea of what The Liverpool Way to play is. A lot of clubs have this too. Man United traditionally have fast, skillful, direct wingers, Arsenal over the last few decades under Wenger play technical football, Barcelona Tiki Taka, Everton have the aggressive dogs of war etc. These philosophies are ingrained in clubs, and you can point to some of the reasons why. History, tradition, culture, mentality of the fans, societal differences and the traditional values of local supporters etc... I used to think it was something intangible, "club DNA", something ethereal. But I don't think it is. Not entirely anyway. And when a manager or a group of players stray away from that club DNA, everything seems to fall apart. I think we're at that stage with this manager. Which is strange to say given we won the league last season, but I've gone through that elsewhere...
Basically, what I'm trying to say is that, when you think of the quintessential Liverpool team, you see effort, pressure, quick, dynamic attacks, with a bit of panache. It's similar to Everton in a way, though we play with a lot more skill and culture.
But that effort and determination and aggression is a reflection of the defiant Scouse mentality. That's why Klopp fit so well. He embodied the same principles and embraced that mentality. It's also why the Bluenoses start booing their own players and get on their back when they were trying to play Tiki Taka with 3 in defence under Martinez. Get it right and it all clicks, you get a fervent atmosphere, a symbiotic relationship between players and fans where both feed each other until the pressure reaches a crescendo and the team becomes a red wave that cannot be beaten. Get it wrong, and in a team like Everton's case, the fans don't buy in, things in the ground become toxic, players become scared and timid, and you get a negative feedback loop instead of a positive one. You can see it at United too since they've stepped away from the Ferguson principles.
This is what is happening under Slot. Slow, measured, possession football might work at other clubs, but not here. It's not in our identity, it's not part of the Liverpool fans' DNA. When you go against that culture or mentality, you take away the passion of the fans, the lifeblood of the atmosphere. When the atmosphere starts to wane (and there's other contributing factors for that which I won't get into here), you lose that potential to give the players that extra boost, that YNWA mentality. You get that negative feedback loop I was talking about. Players second guess their decisions, they doubt themselves, they play with fear, they're no longer in the groove, in that liminal space between consciously carrying out a tactical plan, and being carried along by the swelling momentum of the crowd, the atmosphere, the pressure.
I guess what I'm trying to say with all the pretentious, flowery analogies is that Slot's style is not a good fit and contrasts with what this club is all about. The fans can't resonate with it, the players can pick up on that energy, and you get this growing negative and damp atmosphere. Last night, Ekitike was trying to gee up the crowd. Konate, too, the other day against Wolves. They can sense the atmosphere dipping. It might look like the fans are neglecting the players, but as I keep saying, it's a symbiotic relationship. The playing style gears up the fans, which gears up the atmosphere, which gears up the players...
What's that old saying? Get the ball near The Kop and the crowd will suck the ball over the line? Not for much longer under this manager and his cold, sterile style of play, it won't.
There's a certain idea of what The Liverpool Way to play is. A lot of clubs have this too. Man United traditionally have fast, skillful, direct wingers, Arsenal over the last few decades under Wenger play technical football, Barcelona Tiki Taka, Everton have the aggressive dogs of war etc. These philosophies are ingrained in clubs, and you can point to some of the reasons why. History, tradition, culture, mentality of the fans, societal differences and the traditional values of local supporters etc... I used to think it was something intangible, "club DNA", something ethereal. But I don't think it is. Not entirely anyway. And when a manager or a group of players stray away from that club DNA, everything seems to fall apart. I think we're at that stage with this manager. Which is strange to say given we won the league last season, but I've gone through that elsewhere...
Basically, what I'm trying to say is that, when you think of the quintessential Liverpool team, you see effort, pressure, quick, dynamic attacks, with a bit of panache. It's similar to Everton in a way, though we play with a lot more skill and culture.
But that effort and determination and aggression is a reflection of the defiant Scouse mentality. That's why Klopp fit so well. He embodied the same principles and embraced that mentality. It's also why the Bluenoses start booing their own players and get on their back when they were trying to play Tiki Taka with 3 in defence under Martinez. Get it right and it all clicks, you get a fervent atmosphere, a symbiotic relationship between players and fans where both feed each other until the pressure reaches a crescendo and the team becomes a red wave that cannot be beaten. Get it wrong, and in a team like Everton's case, the fans don't buy in, things in the ground become toxic, players become scared and timid, and you get a negative feedback loop instead of a positive one. You can see it at United too since they've stepped away from the Ferguson principles.
This is what is happening under Slot. Slow, measured, possession football might work at other clubs, but not here. It's not in our identity, it's not part of the Liverpool fans' DNA. When you go against that culture or mentality, you take away the passion of the fans, the lifeblood of the atmosphere. When the atmosphere starts to wane (and there's other contributing factors for that which I won't get into here), you lose that potential to give the players that extra boost, that YNWA mentality. You get that negative feedback loop I was talking about. Players second guess their decisions, they doubt themselves, they play with fear, they're no longer in the groove, in that liminal space between consciously carrying out a tactical plan, and being carried along by the swelling momentum of the crowd, the atmosphere, the pressure.
I guess what I'm trying to say with all the pretentious, flowery analogies is that Slot's style is not a good fit and contrasts with what this club is all about. The fans can't resonate with it, the players can pick up on that energy, and you get this growing negative and damp atmosphere. Last night, Ekitike was trying to gee up the crowd. Konate, too, the other day against Wolves. They can sense the atmosphere dipping. It might look like the fans are neglecting the players, but as I keep saying, it's a symbiotic relationship. The playing style gears up the fans, which gears up the atmosphere, which gears up the players...
What's that old saying? Get the ball near The Kop and the crowd will suck the ball over the line? Not for much longer under this manager and his cold, sterile style of play, it won't.
What did someone post yesterday? One win in five games against Burnley, Leeds, Sunderland, Forest... And that came from a stoppage time penalty. One goal at home against Leeds, Sunderland, Forest - a speculative, deflected effort. No wins. He has no idea how to play against teams that are resolute and solid defensively. Which is the majority of teams that come to play against us. The manager is shite.
I don't know if Slot is a good manager at all, you guys all seem to know more about tactics than I do. Happy to follow your lead.
What I do know, as an unarguable certainty, is we're boring as bat shit to watch. I'm not even interested in when we're playing again.
What I do know, as an unarguable certainty, is we're boring as bat shit to watch. I'm not even interested in when we're playing again.
I forgot to mention, I also get the impression he's a shithouse.
Why bother? You can't argue with stupidity.
We can go back to the arguments earlier in the season where the popular narratives for our poor form were that X and Y player were underperforming and affecting the "system". Bit by bit these players were removed from the first 11 but the overall play have not improved.
I'm just pointing out the starting 11 yesterday was the "ideal" starting 11 as wanted by most and we were still shit.
Personally I preferred to give the players and the team time, for the matches to play out before concluding for myself what is the problem. And half the season has gone.
Now, I am fully on board that Slot and his coaches are the main problem. I agree on the characteristics of the team you had pointed out which are not good enough. There is a big drop off from Klopp's team and everything points to Slot's failure IMO.
You don't think the team was under performing *last year* already? Most of us were saying something is wrong in Feb ... There were some players who were part of the issue then, and were this year too.
I don't think yesterday was our ideal "11" (I cannot say best 11 or that may bring Ryan out of his decade long slumber) because our ideal "11" hasn't been healthy this year - and I don't know if that's due to player professionalism (I honestly hope not) or manager issues or just horrible lucky, don't know.
I think the biggest issue (for me) was that we bought all these players and stuck to the exact same set up when there were issues (the players who were already here didn't exactly fit into the set up anymore, the players we bought didn't, horrible injury lucky - Leoni, horrible drop in form - Ibou, Macca etc). A great manager can adjust - or at least squeeze more from his players ... I don't think Slot has shown he really knows what he's doing yet - and that has left me more on the "get him out" camp though I'm willing to give him the year because ... I don't know. Maybe I want to believe this was really a transition year and we weren't going to match the expectation the 400 mill outlay created.
For sure we were poor all the way from when we crashed out of all the cups last season. Most matches from then on was "play ugly and getting it done" for the league win. I thought it was partly nerves.
I was hoping Slot will recognise that the team was not playing well and bring in some of his own players to improve things, which was what he did and I was prepared to give him time. The time has past I am pretty convinced he is not going to get the team any better.
As many have pointed out he seems to be in a state of self preservation since he threw Mo under the bus, his subsequent statements and the sacking of the set piece coach etc, I am afraid it is a slippery slope he is not going to recover from.
For me, at the end of the season I am hoping I can say, "Thanks for the CL spot, now fuck off".
I thought if we got a win against Leeds, we could push on and do something.
The team has a talent etc - but yesterday felt like lack of effort, lack of urgency etc ... as if they were playing with the league won - that makes me realize I was being optimistic for no reason whatsoever ... Oh well.
I don't think he threw Mo under the bus - I think he did the right thing for the team (as it clearly wasn't a move to get fans onboard - as it's a split within the fan base), but if he doesn't do the same with Gakpo and other players who are showing very problematic habits etc, then I'll agree with you.
I've never recovered from "I told you they were good" at halftime vs PSG.
They weren't that good. Nobody is. Football is shit right now. It's an opportunity for someone. We took it as a gift last year but someone will have the balls to do more.
Yeah, I forgot about that one. He just seems like a bit of a snide as well. Taking the piss out of Rooney when he'd finally stopped getting hammered every week, taking the piss out of Szoboszlai for getting beat by Hungary, moaning about low blocks and direct football. Parking the bus at home against Sunderland as well. The Ibiza stuff. I just think he's a bit of a snide, arrogant coward. Or, in a word, Dutch.