Job security - arne

[Gerry_A_Trick]

I agree, I see periods of games, but never sustained for long enough, and nearly always undone by individual errors. I just think the solution is a new CB, a DM and some time. The most disappointing thing is that we didn't get one of them in in January. I think a new manager now, would have the same issues, and will need even more time (even if they get the temporary new manager bounce).

 

[Irishanfield]

What’s the point. I have my views. Most have a very different one? I’m very much in the @tombrown and @peterhague camp.

I still think we will finish top 5 but the next few games might put that to the sword.

Signs are not good for winning the CL either if we meet a form team but we can beat anyone on our day.

If Chelsea beat Leeds and utd beat West ham then we are 8 and 7 pts of 4th and 5th before we play Sunderland..
One win from the last 7 prem games... 24 pts from the last 20 games.... When is it going to dawn on you that there is no turning the corner, this us it, you are seeing slots liverpool.
Yes it was a good 30 minutes in the 2nd half yesterday, good not great but that 1st half was shit, much like the Newcastle 1st half.. Why are we allowing clubs to dictate their tactics on us, especially in 1st halfs of game. This isn't just Newcastle and city but nearly every team we play.
These same issues were evident in the 2nd half of last season and even before that where we struggled in 1st halfs of games.

So what makes you think we can make top 5? What have you seen that fills you confidence?
Re. Champ lge. If it was European team team yeah we could possible win it but you forget that 5 other English teams in the competition and each knows the blueprint on how to beat us.. Ffs even a shit 9 man spurs had us holding on

 

[Halmeister]

I agree, I see periods of games, but never sustained for long enough, and nearly always undone by individual errors. I just think the solution is a new CB, a DM and some time. The most disappointing thing is that we didn't get one of them in in January. I think a new manager now, would have the same issues, and will need even more time (even if they get the temporary new manager bounce).

A new CB and DM won't stop the slow ponderous passing across the backline, back to the keeper, and back across the backline again. It won't solve the fact our full backs don't overlap. It won't solve the lack of pressing.

The players are largely fine. They're definitely better than Brentford.

It's the tactics. And that comes from one person...

 

[Dreambeliever]

Aside from the Newcastle game - which again was an isolated burst of good football after a turgid 30 minutes - when were the rest of these sparks? Consistency is key. And we're consistently bad. The good patches have been the anomaly for a year. And you have to be consistently good to finish higher up the table...

The rest of it is hope and speculation. We're already playing catch up and we have not shown anything that suggests we are capable of clawing back the deficit.

"Good form" is overstepping it with some of them. If they were in good form, we wouldn't have one league win in 6 or whatever it is.

I think even in those draws and loses since the terrible run there has been sparks of what could be.

I don’t think we are a million miles away from putting a run together.

Game of fine margins and all that and conceding late is a very worrying trend so hopefully we’ll see us kick on and get a bigger lead in future games.

 

[Dreambeliever]

If Chelsea beat Leeds and utd beat West ham then we are 8 and 7 pts of 4th and 5th before we play Sunderland..
One win from the last 7 prem games... 24 pts from the last 20 games.... When is it going to dawn on you that there is no turning the corner, this us it, you are seeing slots liverpool.
Yes it was a good 30 minutes in the 2nd half yesterday, good not great but that 1st half was shit, much like the Newcastle 1st half.. Why are we allowing clubs to dictate their tactics on us, especially in 1st halfs of game. This isn't just Newcastle and city but nearly every team we play.
These same issues were evident in the 2nd half of last season and even before that where we struggled in 1st halfs of games.

So what makes you think we can make top 5? What have you seen that fills you confidence?
Re. Champ lge. If it was European team team yeah we could possible win it but you forget that 5 other English teams in the competition and each knows the blueprint on how to beat us.. Ffs even a shit 9 man spurs had us holding on

Well zero point speculating on ifs. Let’s see if they do and if we fail to beat Sunderland.

People said there was no turning the corner when we lost 9/12 but we did. Will we turn it now? Potentially not but no I don’t believe it’s a lost cause at this stage.
Europe is very different and I think we can beat all of the English teams in it.

 

[Irishanfield]

Well zero point speculating on ifs. Let’s see if they do and if we fail to beat Sunderland.

People said there was no turning the corner when we lost 9/12 but we did. Will we turn it now? Potentially not but no I don’t believe it’s a lost cause at this stage.
Europe is very different and I think we can beat all of the English teams in it.

How is it a turning a corner if we've won one of the last 7? This turning the corner moment you mentioned is part of the 6 wins from the last 20 games... 24 pts from those games
Alot of those wins in your "turning the corner" period were insipid boring negative football.
I don't know what I'm missing? Maybe if watched the games in mega ultra HD then this uninspiring slot ball would become so much clearer and enjoyable.
Why would you think slot will not play the exact same way against English clubs in Europe? English clubs are dominant in Europe with 5 of the 6 finishing in the top 8..ffs a shit spurs finished just behind us ffs so this crap that we are a different beast in Europe is bollox

 

[Squiggles]

I've got a sneaking feeling we'll play our way into the semi-finals in the CL somehow, and they'll give Slot another year. Put it this way, I'm mentally preparing myself for another season of this shit.

 

[Irishanfield]

I've got a sneaking feeling we'll play our way into the semi-finals in the CL somehow, and they'll give Slot another year. Put it this way, I'm mentally preparing myself for another season of this shit.

Dont think I could tbh.. The negativity I feel before a game is akin to bodgers's final season or the gloom I felt after the appointment of owl faced hodgson

 

[Momo]

I've got a sneaking feeling we'll play our way into the semi-finals in the CL somehow, and they'll give Slot another year. Put it this way, I'm mentally preparing myself for another season of this shit.

Same. Except we have more chance of a 90 year old getting a semi than our current side.

 

[Squiggles]

View: https://vm.tiktok.com/ZNRyMqQ5v/

There's only one man to get the best from our aging pros.

 

[mark1975]

I agree, I see periods of games, but never sustained for long enough, and nearly always undone by individual errors. I just think the solution is a new CB, a DM and some time. The most disappointing thing is that we didn't get one of them in in January. I think a new manager now, would have the same issues, and will need even more time (even if they get the temporary new manager bounce).

Do you really think this? I think it's pretty two fold. Yes we probably haven't prioritised well and we desperately need top quality defensive additions, but the issues aren't really just a lack of depth and quality, it's the total approach. We're inviting pressure, which is inviting mistakes. We're giving teams way too much respect for large periods of the game and it's costing us, probably because we then get exposed where we're weak, but anyway. A good manager will adapt to what he has, not stubbornly try to play in a way he doesn't have the players for. And in all honesty, can anyone really say that his current method of letting the opposition dictate the play for the first 30 minutes is a good approach in any reality?

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

I think a great DM can transform a team, yeah. It can counteract a lot of those things, a peak Fabinho, Mascherano or maybe even Hamann would cut out a lot of the goals we've conceded and change the dynamics of games.

I'm sure Slot could have done better with what he has, I don't think anyone can claim it's been close to perfect, far from it. But there actually isn't a huge amount of options for him, if you look at our bench, it's generally lacking a lot of quality all season. Could he have adjusted tactics, he has number of times, often within games and arguably too much?

I'm not going to defend him to the hilt, and it would be no surprise if we wasnt here in a few months, I'm just not convinced we'll be any better without actually solving for our lack of quality in a few positions.

 

[Momo]

Slot was given a bad hand because of our business in the summer as well as player contracts. He hasn’t tried to make that hand work as best he can.

That’s why I want Edwards and his ilk’s heads on sticks.

 

[Squiggles]

I think a great DM can transform a team, yeah. It can counteract a lot of those things, a peak Fabinho, Mascherano or maybe even Hamann would cut out a lot of the goals we've conceded and change the dynamics of games.

I'm sure Slot could have done better with what he has, I don't think anyone can claim it's been close to perfect, far from it. But there actually isn't a huge amount of options for him, if you look at our bench, it's generally lacking a lot of quality all season. Could he have adjusted tactics, he has number of times, often within games and arguably too much?

I'm not going to defend him to the hilt, and it would be no surprise if we wasnt here in a few months, I'm just not convinced we'll be any better without actually solving for our lack of quality in a few positions.

I tend to agree. I have sympathy for Slot in many ways. He has had to deal with injuries, a clear drop-off from Salah and, to a lesser extent, VVD and Alisson. The departure of Diaz also felt significant. I suspect that was not his call, especially without a proper replacement lined up. The transfer strategy added pressure rather than easing it. It felt a little disjointed at the time, and once the initial excitement faded, that only became more obvious. That's before we mention the death of Jota.

On the other hand, he doesn't display many of the traits I want from a Liverpool manager, especially a post-Klopp Liverpool manager, and looks unable to get the best out of what is still a very good squad. It's probably going to be the worst title defence in living memory. Falling off to the Europa League could be seriously damaging unless we bounce back within a year. I'm fine with a coach being a work-in-progress and improving on the job, but that has to be done while keeping us in the Champions League.

 

[Glen C]

I think a great DM can transform a team, yeah. It can counteract a lot of those things, a peak Fabinho, Mascherano or maybe even Hamann would cut out a lot of the goals we've conceded and change the dynamics of games.

I'm sure Slot could have done better with what he has, I don't think anyone can claim it's been close to perfect, far from it. But there actually isn't a huge amount of options for him, if you look at our bench, it's generally lacking a lot of quality all season. Could he have adjusted tactics, he has number of times, often within games and arguably too much?

I'm not going to defend him to the hilt, and it would be no surprise if we wasnt here in a few months, I'm just not convinced we'll be any better without actually solving for our lack of quality in a few positions.

Slot doesn't seem to WANT to play with a proper DM. Also i don't like how he's changed gravenberch's role this season. He's tried to expand his role and it hasn't worked at all and we are leaking even more goals. He's been one of our worst players this season with macca and that's on slot.

 

[keniget]

Klopp gave us teams that were greater than the sum of their parts.

Slot has given us a team that is worse than the sum of its parts. There are mitigating circumstances but we all know we can and should be better than this.

 

[tomasjj]

The most irritating now is how he switched back to two central mids, and we are again open.
Did he learn nothing from the poor run?

 

[tomasjj]

Slot doesn't seem to WANT to play with a proper DM. Also i don't like how he's changed gravenberch's role this season. He's tried to expand his role and it hasn't worked at all and we are leaking even more goals. He's been one of our worst players this season with macca and that's on slot.

He needs three bodies in front of the defense. Jones has to play as well.

 

[Dreambeliever]

How is it a turning a corner if we've won one of the last 7? This turning the corner moment you mentioned is part of the 6 wins from the last 20 games... 24 pts from those games
Alot of those wins in your "turning the corner" period were insipid boring negative football.
I don't know what I'm missing? Maybe if watched the games in mega ultra HD then this uninspiring slot ball would become so much clearer and enjoyable.
Why would you think slot will not play the exact same way against English clubs in Europe? English clubs are dominant in Europe with 5 of the 6 finishing in the top 8..ffs a shit spurs finished just behind us ffs so this crap that we are a different beast in Europe is bollox

We lost 9 in 12. It’s now 2 in 17. That’s turning a corner.

 

[binomial]

Stopping a rot from becoming more rotten isn't turning a corner. Winning games does that. We've won 5 games in the league since September. The season is done and dusted anyhow, whatever happens between now and May will be seen as a monumental failure & we sure as hell haven't "turned any corner"

 

[Woland]

If there was an equal distribution of improvement then you could put up with Dreamy's BS. We haven't improved in any discernible way systemically. A few new kids are finding their feet, that's all that's happened. It's improved results a tiny bit. Fuck all to do with tactics or work rate across the team, just the natural improvement you'd expect from kids moving from smaller clubs or shitter leagues. Nothing to suggest anything has improved on the training ground at all. Nothing to suggest this dumb dull dickhead will ever stop telling us to drop back twenty yards to protect a lead, which has never ever worked for anyone since the Italians bored the life out of everyone in the 80s

 

[peekay]

We lost 9 in 12. It’s now 2 in 17. That’s turning a corner.

You are constantly portraying improvements from a completely unacceptable set of results as a positive trend. It is more than that, though. You are continuously focused on the outcomes.

Good process leads to good outcomes in the long run. Good tactics, style of play, combined with excellent recruitment, will lead to consistently good results.

Some of us started voicing doubts about the sustainability of his style of play last Spring itself. Not that we were not grateful to him for delivering the PL. We felt that we could not sustain this level of success with the style of play he was trying to implement. This season is not the outlier. Last season was. I am not taking away credit for his role in the PL triumph last season. He deserves every bit of praise for that, while recognizing that he is not likely to repeat it the way he was setting us up.

You can twist and turn and look for green shoots in absolutely mediocre stats. But the fact is, we look horribly coached. Our attack looks blunt unless Wirtz, Ekitike, or Szobo takes the initiative. In defense, any half-decent player decides to test us, and we look like we can concede any moment.

Then there is the Klopp had the horrible run defense. Of course, he had. But then there was a clarity of vision in terms of what he was trying to achieve. We could all see the tactics he was trying to implement and knew they would work.

 

[fnsv1892]

We lost 9 in 12. It’s now 2 in 17. That’s turning a corner.

Maybe for Cheltenham it is

 

[Farkmaster]

We lost 9 in 12. It’s now 2 in 17. That’s turning a corner.

You are cherry picking to say we lost 9 in 12, and to say we lost 2 in 17. Like, before the 12 game period you are picking we have 7 wins in a row.

At any rate, yes, we clearly turned our form around from losing 7 games in a row. We are clearly better than that disastrous form. A rolling average of our wins is around 2.0. The below doesn't look god awful:

WWWWWWWLLLLLLLWWLLLWDDWWWWDDDWDWLWWL

Here's the clear turn around graph:

The problem is that most of the wins we have AREN'T IN THE LEAGUE. If our general form was our league form, we'd comfortably be in 4th place as we'd be hovering around 2 points a game.

Our league form is:

WWWWWLLLLWLLWDDWWWDDDDLWL

Here's what that graph looks like:

What about the above is cause for optimism? It looks like a dead cat bounce.

 

[Fabio]

You are cherry picking to say we lost 9 in 12, and to say we lost 2 in 17. Like, before the 12 game period you are picking we have 7 wins in a row.

At any rate, yes, we clearly turned our form around from losing 7 games in a row. We are clearly better than that disastrous form. A rolling average of our wins is around 2.0. The below doesn't look god awful:

WWWWWWWLLLLLLLWWLLLWDDWWWWDDDWDWLWWL

Here's the clear turn around graph:

The problem is that most of the wins we have AREN'T IN THE LEAGUE. If our general form was our league form, we'd comfortably be in 4th place as we'd be hovering around 2 points a game.

Our league form is:

WWWWWLLLLWLLWDDWWWDDDDLWL

Here's what that graph looks like:

What about the above is cause for optimism? It looks like a dead cat bounce.

We turned a corner when Salah went to AFCON and gakpo was injured, and then we turned another corner when they got fit/returned.

Cunts gone full 180 and doesn't realise