Job security - arne
- Thread starter LeTallecWiz
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Im sure Leicester and maybe Chelsea had worse title defences especially after 25 gamesComing out of my self imposed exile to repost this.
- Worst run of any LFC manager in 71 yrs.
- 1st LFC manager w/ 5 straight domestic cup defeats since 1953.
- 1st time 3 consecutive league losses by 3+ goals since 1965.
- Most 90th-min winners conceded in a PL season ever (still 3 months left)
- Worse 20-game stretch than Roy Hodgson.
- 1st LFC manager to lose 19 games in a calendar year.
- On track for worst PL title defence in PL history.
It's simple for me.
Boring but effective football - OK for a bit but there comes a time when fans want more (first half of Houllier's reign).
Exciting football that falls just short - OK for a longer period (Kevin Keegan's Newcastle, arguably early period Klopp but only because City were cheating their way to unrealistic levels).
Boring and ineffective. That can get in the bin. That's where we are right now.
Boring but effective football - OK for a bit but there comes a time when fans want more (first half of Houllier's reign).
Exciting football that falls just short - OK for a longer period (Kevin Keegan's Newcastle, arguably early period Klopp but only because City were cheating their way to unrealistic levels).
Boring and ineffective. That can get in the bin. That's where we are right now.
You are cherry picking to say we lost 9 in 12, and to say we lost 2 in 17. Like, before the 12 game period you are picking we have 7 wins in a row.
At any rate, yes, we clearly turned our form around from losing 7 games in a row. We are clearly better than that disastrous form. A rolling average of our wins is around 2.0. The below doesn't look god awful:
WWWWWWWLLLLLLLWWLLLWDDWWWWDDDWDWLWWL
Here's the clear turn around graph:
The problem is that most of the wins we have AREN'T IN THE LEAGUE. If our general form was our league form, we'd comfortably be in 4th place as we'd be hovering around 2 points a game.
Our league form is:
WWWWWLLLLWLLWDDWWWDDDDLWL
Here's what that graph looks like:
What about the above is cause for optimism? It looks like a dead cat bounce.
It makes no sense to entertain that attention seeking plonker.
Most managers aren't able to turn around this sort of freefall.
There are lots of good managers who haven't ever done it, and many that have won trophies. There are very few great managers.
We may replace slot with another one that gets some success and then it rolls off and falls apart. We might replace him with someone who wins nothing. It's more likely than us finding another klopp. It's not a reason not to do it though.
There are lots of good managers who haven't ever done it, and many that have won trophies. There are very few great managers.
We may replace slot with another one that gets some success and then it rolls off and falls apart. We might replace him with someone who wins nothing. It's more likely than us finding another klopp. It's not a reason not to do it though.
Ferguson did. Arteta is. Both were given time. Sacking managers can and usually does lead to long-term decline. We should only change if there is an alternative who is nailed on to be a success and the club will give that new manager the time and resources.
Unfortunately for Arne there is an alternative. I hope Edwards is sounding out Xabi to see if he would come in the summer. If not we should stick with Slot rather than sack for the sake of it.
I don't think arteta did. He took a shit team and very slowly improved it with lots of financial backing and significantly lowered expectations. He didnt watch a team collapse from a successful point, then rebuild it.
View: https://www.reddit.com/r/LiverpoolFC/comments/1r1b3w3/in_my_opinion_the_limited_opportunities_were_down/
And there you have it. As most of us noticed early on, Slot simply doesn’t trust his squad and doesn’t even bother trying to instill any confidence in them.
Bit part player disagrees with manager who doesn't play him, shocker.
Did Klopp have this issue?
Sakho, Minamino, Shaqiri anyway. But, I think if we compare our future managers to Klopp, we'll never be happy.
I wish we had an agree option. I don't "like" a lot of this. I've followed LFC for half a century. But I agree with a lot of this, but don't like with that thumbs up option. I also feel a bit guilty laying into a manager but I feel he's Roy Hodgson 2.0.
I don't like Slots lack of man management. He throws players under the bus saying stuff directly about them that turned me off him very early on. He's doesn't play youth. And his tactics are worthy and let teams open us up and play through us. We expose our defense because we're weak through the middle. We never replaced fabinho and arsenal got zubimendi.
Also while I'm on this topic sacrificing out best midfielder in a RN role is a disgrace play youth and let them at least play a couple of games. I heard Ramsey's shut now, I wouldn't know as he's hardly played for us, At least Sobs can have a game off. VVD playing every game isn't helping either.
But we should be if we compare them to Roy Hodgson 😉
Maybe it’s partly the media — and the club — setting the narrative that raised expectations in the first place.
It’s not as though Morton was given loads of chances under Klopp, as @Hansern previously pointed out, but his comments on Klopp and Slot were vastly different.
Sorry if I come across as obsessively defensive of Klopp, but context matters.
During his two full seasons with us, Minamino was competing with Salah, Mané and Firmino in 19/20, and with those three plus Jota and Díaz in 21/22. We finished those seasons with 99 and 92 points respectively.
His significant contribution to our 21/22 League Cup and FA Cup runs to the finals is an indirect testament to Klopp’s ability to keep squad players motivated and confident enough to step into the starting XI and make an impact.
As for Sakho, there was the doping saga and disciplinary issues.
View: https://www.reddit.com/r/LiverpoolFC/comments/iad3g9/klopp_wasnt_joking_here_after_this_he_never/
Lastly, Shaqiri made 31 appearances (including 9 league goal involvements) in 18/19, when we lost the title by a point, but fitness became a recurring issue afterwards.
Maybe it’s partly the media — and the club — setting the narrative that raised expectations in the first place.
It’s not as though Morton was given loads of chances under Klopp, as @Hansern previously pointed out, but his comments on Klopp and Slot were vastly different.
Sorry if I come across as obsessively defensive of Klopp, but context matters.
During his two full seasons with us, Minamino was competing with Salah, Mané and Firmino in 19/20, and with those three plus Jota and Díaz in 21/22. We finished those seasons with 99 and 92 points respectively.
His significant contribution to our 21/22 League Cup and FA Cup runs to the finals is an indirect testament to Klopp’s ability to keep squad players motivated and confident enough to step into the starting XI and make an impact.
As for Sakho, there was the doping saga and disciplinary issues.
View: https://www.reddit.com/r/LiverpoolFC/comments/iad3g9/klopp_wasnt_joking_here_after_this_he_never/
Lastly, Shaqiri made 31 appearances (including 9 league goal involvements) in 18/19, when we lost the title by a point, but fitness became a recurring issue afterwards.
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I think you're answering a different question, or maybe just agreeing with me. Usually there is good reason why someone isn't playing, often it's as they are not as good as the options that are playing, and it's perfectly normal for them to be unhappy afterwards. You can obviously question the likeability of Slot vs Klopp, I think very few managers in history, of any club, will be as well liked by fans and players.
Perhaps you missed the earlier posts cos what started the mini conversation was regarding "bit part player disagrees with manager who doesn't play him", i.e. referencing to Morton's "negative" remarks about Slot. Thus my rely - because Morton's case/comments is quite different from the trio who were mentioned (hence why imo, his comment's shouldn't be just brushed off as that of another "disgruntled player").
Yup, thanks for answering better than I could 🤣
Sakho didn't have this issue, Sakho was a bellend and got reprimanded by Klopp. He was one of very few who did. Minamino and Shaqiri were both used sparingly and walked away with out muttering a single negative word, which is massive when you consider Shaqiri's previous.
It's nothing like the interview from Morton, which basically just confirmed what we have already said since the whole shit show with Quansah.
Agreed.
Have nothing to add regarding Sakho, he just didn't conform.
Shaqiri played in some important games, but it was very clear early on that he'd never be able to do what was asked by Klopp.
His Injury problems didn't help.
Minamino got game time, but it was also clear that he just wasn't good enough.
Still, if there were injuries, Slot wouldn't hesitate about starting them.
I'm being slow, I don't understand what makes you see it differently.
It's ok. I see that the others do. 😉
Sakho was an interesting one. I heard some quite positive things about him from a personal perspective. When he arrived he was very keen to get involved with the Foundation's community work (all the players do their bit, but for a lot of them they see it as more of a duty where he was pushing to get involved). He went on a visit and wanted to write a (personal) cheque for the project he'd seen there and then and had to be told that wasn't how they operated.
I think he was just a bit of a daft lad, naive, easily-led and prone to get into trouble for stupid shit (a touch of Gascoigne syndrome). I wouldn't mind betting that someone put him up to that stunt on the US tour that was the last straw for Klopp.
More of a well-meaning idiot than an out and out dickhead.
But also not as good a player as he thought he was (nor as good as we hoped he'd become).
I think he was just a bit of a daft lad, naive, easily-led and prone to get into trouble for stupid shit (a touch of Gascoigne syndrome). I wouldn't mind betting that someone put him up to that stunt on the US tour that was the last straw for Klopp.
More of a well-meaning idiot than an out and out dickhead.
But also not as good a player as he thought he was (nor as good as we hoped he'd become).
