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LFC finances

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Liverpool CAN spend this summer but FSG transfer model has long-term benefits
[article]
Liverpool like Brighton’s Ben White and Watford’s Ismaila Sarr, but have used an approach that can only be described as cautious so far this summer.
While Chelsea, in particular, and other top-four rivals too have splashed the cash, Jurgen Klopp and Liverpool have steered clear of dipping into the market, despite continuing transfer links.
Speaking to the Blood Red podcast for a football finance and transfer podcast, the University of Liverpool’s Kieran Maguire explained the current situation off the field.
He said: "If the manager wanted to spend £40-50million, they will back him. But to spend that amount, it has to be a player who will play 30-plus games in the Premier League.
"Spurs haven’t spent loads, Arsenal have been pretty quiet and there is an awful lot of other clubs who have been pretty quiet as well. Liverpool are not alone in their caution this summer."
Dive further into the figures and Liverpool’s stance is understandable, and sensible.
Under FSG, significant investment has been made well beyond the obvious headline figures of transfer fees, but their financial model has always been to make the club self-sustainable.
In their most recent accounts, the Reds’ incomings totalled an almost identical figure to their outgoings.
Loans to be repaid stand at £129million (this was £183million in 2017, so it has reduced by 30 per cent in three years) and another £20million was repaid on the loan for the Main Stand’s construction.
That approach will pay off in the long-term, too; even if Liverpool do not spend any more this summer, that will mean that further down the line they will have much more money to play with.
Maguire further outlined: "If we take a look at the last six years in terms of day-to-day money coming and going out, Liverpool made £8million in 2014, £7million in 2015, they lost money in 2016 but they had a change in manager that year, and then they have broken even in 2017, 2018 and 2019.
"That does suggest that the owners are not willing to take the approach taken by some other clubs in terms of racking up huge losses in the pursuit of glory.
"Net debt has halved since 2017 - it was £179million and it is now down to £90million. Less debt means less interest, so in the long-term, there is more money to invest in the transfer market.
"For Liverpool, interest payments are about four or five millions pounds a year and are less than one per cent of revenues, which is a pretty good cost to have nailed down.
"At Manchester United, when the Glazers first took over, they were paying out around £100million a year.

"Long term, the more money is being paid to the bankers, the less money there is in the player budget. Having a strategy as FSG appear to have is something to use to the club’s advantage.
"This has allowed Liverpool to catch up with Manchester United - a decade ago, Liverpool were a long way behind. Last year, Liverpool’s wages were £310million and United’s were £330million, so there wasn’t a huge difference.

"Liverpool won the Premier League without spending money on new players last season. You don’t have to spend huge amounts if you have the infrastructure in terms of the playing part of the club in place, and in my view, they also have the strategy for the infrastructure off the pitch as well in terms of the training facilities and the stadium."
Importantly, Klopp is content with the squad that he has at his disposal, and the lack of incomings is not only linked with the economics of the situation: squad size is also an important consideration, with the likes of Harry Wilson and Marko Grujic currently swelling the first-team roster.

That will mean a big decision to make with all three in terms of what comes next, not only in succession planning but also in terms of offering them their next contract.
But by not spending for the sake of it this summer, carefully continuing to follow the model that has seen Liverpool win both the Champions League and the Premier League, the Reds will be in the best possible position to sustain their success in the long-term
[/article]
 
What do you mean “what investment in youth players”?

We’ve signed 20 odd youth players on top of the local lads under Klopp as well as significant investment in combined training facilities for first team and academy.

Wasn’t the mess Hicks & Gillette got us in to at least partly to do with increasing debt to fund stuff?

You’re right, of course, we could increase debt, but it doesn’t feel like the right thing to do at the moment - despite everyone else seemingly doing it.

I genuinely don't know what you mean by investment in youth players. We did way more of that back when we got the likes of Sterling and Ojo on board.

There's Elliott.... Is there anyone else significant? Even he wasn't a particularly big deal. Not on the same level as Sterling, say.
 
I genuinely don't know what you mean by investment in youth players. We did way more of that back when we got the likes of Sterling and Ojo on board.

There's Elliott.... Is there anyone else significant? Even he wasn't a particularly big deal. Not on the same level as Sterling, say.

Van Den Berg cost £1m+, rising to £4m potentially.

Elliot, Koumetio, Hoever (I think we got him cheap, but still..), stack of keepers, etc - it’s not as if we’re not picking up youth players from all over the place and investing in facilities to train them.
 
Van Den Berg cost £1m+, rising to £4m potentially.

Elliot, Koumetio, Hoever (I think we got him cheap, but still..), stack of keepers, etc - it’s not as if we’re not picking up youth players from all over the place and investing in facilities to train them.

Right so nothing beyond about the minimum investment I'd consider necessary just to keep a youth system ticking over.

To me, investment in youth would be the sort of thing Dortmund have been doing, buying up top talents for significant money on a consistent basis.
 
Right so nothing beyond about the minimum investment I'd consider necessary just to keep a youth system ticking over.

To me, investment in youth would be the sort of thing Dortmund have been doing, buying up top talents for significant money on a consistent basis.

What’s your point Peter?

Are you saying we’re not investing in youth players at all or are you now grumbling that we’re not investing enough in youth players?

It’s clearly not “the minimum” involved in getting a youth system ticking over- because we’re identifying talent and attracting it from all over Europe.

The transfer costs are, to an extent, a red herring - because many of these players haven’t signed professional contracts or can be signed for nominal fees - the investment is in identifying them, attracting them and securing them before they sign their first professional contract elsewhere - Hoever, Larouci, Elliot, etc.

There’s also been £60m+ invested in Academy Training facilities - unless you trying to make an argument that that’s the minimum you’d expect too?
 
What’s your point Peter?

Are you saying we’re not investing in youth players at all or are you now grumbling that we’re not investing enough in youth players?

It’s clearly not “the minimum” involved in getting a youth system ticking over- because we’re identifying talent and attracting it from all over Europe.

The transfer costs are, to an extent, a red herring - because many of these players haven’t signed professional contracts or can be signed for nominal fees - the investment is in identifying them, attracting them and securing them before they sign their first professional contract elsewhere - Hoever, Larouci, Elliot, etc.

There’s also been £60m+ invested in Academy Training facilities - unless you trying to make an argument that that’s the minimum you’d expect too?

You said there'd been an investment in youth players that might justify not spending on the first team.

My point is simply that there hasn't been.

If you meant to refer to this extra money spent on the academy (which I'm not aware of tbh) then that certainly wasn't clear.

To me, 'investment in youth players' means actual direct purchases of young players, not the facilities that develop them.
 
You said there'd been an investment in youth players that might justify not spending on the first team.

My point is simply that there hasn't been.

If you meant to refer to this extra money spent on the academy (which I'm not aware of tbh) then that certainly wasn't clear.

To me, 'investment in youth players' means actual direct purchases of young players, not the facilities that develop them.

For someone that likes to argue on nuance and specific wording you’re making a few leaps here.

I said, MAYBE the investment in youth might be a reason why spending on large curtailed.

I’m sorry you decided to misinterpret “investment” to mean “spending solely on transfer fees”.

I used the word “investment” for a reason - as opposed to, say, “youth player purchases”.

The fact remains, regardless - we have invested in identifying, purchasing and building facilities to train youth players - and given that, it MIGHT be one of the reasons why we’re not spending huge sums on transfers.

I’m not John Henry - so I don’t really know - I’m just speculating.
 
For someone that likes to argue on nuance and specific wording you’re making a few leaps here.

I said, MAYBE the investment in youth might be a reason why spending on large curtailed.

I’m sorry you decided to misinterpret “investment” to mean “spending solely on transfer fees”.

I used the word “investment” for a reason - as opposed to, say, “youth player purchases”.

The fact remains, regardless - we have invested in identifying, purchasing and building facilities to train youth players - and given that, it MIGHT be one of the reasons why we’re not spending huge sums on transfers.

I’m not John Henry - so I don’t really know - I’m just speculating.

No you're just refusing to back down graciously, as per usual.

I didn't misinterpret anything. You didn't say investment in youth. If you had that would tend to refer to a larger focus on youth facilities etc, and you'd have more of a point to cling to. You wrote investment in youth players. To me that clearly implies the actual acquisition of the players themselves, rather than the general system that produces them.

I think you meant the players. Because when I questioned the statement you tried to list the players we'd brought in, rather than clarifying the point. It was only as an afterthought you brought up this investment in facilities (which I still don't actually know has taken place tbh, I don't remember hearing about it).
 
No you're just refusing to back down graciously, as per usual.

I didn't misinterpret anything. You didn't say investment in youth. If you had that would tend to refer to a larger focus on youth facilities etc, and you'd have more of a point to cling to. You wrote investment in youth players. To me that clearly implies the actual acquisition of the players themselves, rather than the general system that produces them.

I think you meant the players. Because when I questioned the statement you tried to list the players we'd brought in, rather than clarifying the point. It was only as an afterthought you brought up this investment in facilities (which I still don't actually know has taken place tbh, I don't remember hearing about it).


Really Peter - the first phrase I used was “Investment in youth players” then when you questioned “what investment” I followed it up IN MY SECOND POST with a “we’ve signed 20 odd youth players on top of the local lads as well as significant investment in facilities”.

I can’t be clearer - except maybe when i quoted the figure of the investment - to which you admitted your ignorance about.

Do you know what... I give up.

You win.

Whatever.
 
Really Peter - the first phrase I used was “Investment in youth players” then when you questioned “what investment” I followed it up IN MY SECOND POST with a “we’ve signed 20 odd youth players on top of the local lads as well as significant investment in facilities”.

I can’t be clearer - except maybe when i quoted the figure of the investment - to which you admitted your ignorance about.

Do you know what... I give up.

You win.

Whatever.

Honestly Stevie dear, about time Stevie love.
 
Executive boxes should be allowed to reopen. The stadium, stands (bar the Kop)and training ground could also be sponsored. Hopefull that will lessen the impact of the loss
 
Executive boxes should be allowed to reopen. The stadium, stands (bar the Kop)and training ground could also be sponsored. Hopefull that will lessen the impact of the loss
Yeah, after the furloughing of staff debacle, and the long running issues with fan groups about ticket prices and disenfranchising the normal supporter, our absolute priority is to be seen as being most proactive in opening the exec boxes.....

Also, you’ve changed your tune. Last week it was all about “financial crisis? What financial crisis. Other clubs are spending like a lottery winner so should we!”. Now it’s “fuck it, auction the naming rights for everything including Virgils man bun”.

It’s almost as if you haven’t got the first fucking clue what you are talking about
 
Yeah, after the furloughing of staff debacle, and the long running issues with fan groups about ticket prices and disenfranchising the normal supporter, our absolute priority is to be seen as being most proactive in opening the exec boxes.....

Also, you’ve changed your tune. Last week it was all about “financial crisis? What financial crisis. Other clubs are spending like a lottery winner so should we!”. Now it’s “fuck it, auction the naming rights for everything including Virgils man bun”.

It’s almost as if you haven’t got the first fucking clue what you are talking about
Because he hasn't
 
Also, saying open the exex boxes first, when we're talking about a virus that primarily spreads indoors is fucking ludicrous.
 
Also, saying open the exex boxes first, when we're talking about a virus that primarily spreads indoors is fucking ludicrous.

I don't know that it's such a terrible idea if it's restricted to family members (or support bubbles) per exec box.
 
Yeah, after the furloughing of staff debacle, and the long running issues with fan groups about ticket prices and disenfranchising the normal supporter, our absolute priority is to be seen as being most proactive in opening the exec boxes.....

Also, you’ve changed your tune. Last week it was all about “financial crisis? What financial crisis. Other clubs are spending like a lottery winner so should we!”. Now it’s “fuck it, auction the naming rights for everything including Virgils man bun”.

It’s almost as if you haven’t got the first fucking clue what you are talking about
I have changed my tune because I've realised how fucked FSG are financially.
I mention exec boxes as they will bring in some cash. The safety protocols would be no different to a restaurant.
 
Those figures also include personal endorsements mate so sponsorship from pepsi Adidas Vodafone etc
 
Those figures also include personal endorsements mate so sponsorship from pepsi Adidas Vodafone etc

They've separated out endorsements. According to that article, Salah's salary is 1M a year more than Bale's.
 
Yeah he may be 5th bit his personal endorsements are still $13m a year so higher than Bale. $24m a year is what? 220k a week. Sounds about right?
 
Yeah he may be 5th bit his personal endorsements are still $13m a year so higher than Bale. $24m a year is what? 220k a week. Sounds about right?

More like 350k.. but when I posted before I was ignoring that it was dollars.

350 makes more sense.
 
Salah is on 200k a week. But thats his base salary. The Forbes list must also include the performance related salary, i e winning the league.
 
Salah is on 200k a week. But thats his base salary. The Forbes list must also include the performance related salary, i e winning the league.
Was about to post this.

Our wage bill looks huge cos its incentive based. We kept winning shit so they keep getting boss wages.
 
BOSTON RED SOX
Boston Red Sox: What Do John Henry's Financial Problems Mean for the Red Sox?

JONATHAN CULLENNOVEMBER 9, 2012

hi-res-105477911_crop_north.jpg

Are the Red Sox in trouble?Oli Scarff/Getty Images
This article by Beth Healy at Boston.com isn't good news.
Healy's article details that principal Boston Red Sox' owner John Henry "has shut down his investment firm in Florida after a period of poor performance."
In Healy's report it states about the firm: "its assets have declined from more than $2.5 billion to less than $100 million."
Wow. That doesn't bode well for people like me that were expecting an interesting winter of Hot Stove action.
This story immediately lends credence to the report from Charlie Gasparino at the Fox Business website that the Boston Red Sox are potentially for sale.
And it also puts into question the Red Sox trade with the Los Angeles Dodgers last summer where the Red Sox traded Adrian Gonzalez, Carl Crawford, Josh Beckett and Nick Punto in order to remove over $262 million from their payroll.

At the time, the trade was viewed as a chance for Boston to reset its roster and get out from underneath the contracts of Crawford and Beckett and a team that wasn't winning.
Now? Maybe the Red Sox saw this coming and knew they couldn't afford a $175 million dollar payroll anymore. Maybe the Red Sox have spread themselves too thin between all of their investments.
Maybe it was simply a salary dump that was hidden inside all of the Bobby Valentine drama.
The biggest concern is whether this will impact the Red Sox' ability to put a competitive team on the field next season.
Will they spend for free-agents and assume larger contracts from other teams as had been anticipated this offseason? Will they be able to climb out of the cellar next season?
We'll find out if they are in the mix to sign players like Mike Napoli, Hiroki Kuroda and Torii Hunter.
If the Red Sox end up being bystanders this offseason, we'll know that the financial problems are more than Red Sox' ownership has let on.
If that happens, all of the goodwill that started with firing Bobby Valentine, hiring John Farrell, resigning David Ortiz and the generally pro-active approach of general manager Ben Cherington will go by the wayside.
Its enough to put a chill on all of the Hot Stove talk.
 
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