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Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts
Latest from the Telegraph
[size=12pt]RBS ready to step in to force swift Liverpool sale
[/size]Royal Bank of Scotland may take direct control of attempts to find a buyer for Liverpool. It comes amid growing unease at the failure
to remove American Tom Hicks and George Gillett ahead of next month's refinancing deadline.
Paul Kelso
Officially the bank supports the sales process being handled by Liverpool chairman Martin Broughton and investment bank Barclays Capital, but with just 25 days until the expiry of RBS's financing deal with the Americans, the issue is becoming acute for RBS.
Among the narrowing options being considered by executives, including chief executive Stephen Hester, is for RBS to take greater control of the process from BarCap.
This would simplify any deal-making process and could allow the bank to try to force Hicks and Gillett to accept a lower price for the club than the £500 million-plus valuation that looks increasingly unrealistic.
The terms of RBS's £237 million loan to the American owners expires on Oct 6, and if no buyer is realistically close to sealing a deal then the bank will have to decide whether to call in the debt, effectively forcing Hicks and Gillett out, or offer a further extension.
Neither option is straightforward, but The Daily Telegraph understands that RBS will extend the financing deal for a short period only if Broughton indicates there is a realistic chance of a deal being closed quickly after Oct 6.
The bank is extremely reluctant to step in and take direct control of the club however, hence the desire to press hard for a deal in the 25 days before the financing deadline.
Any deal remains reliant on a suitable bidder being interested in the terms on offer however, and Broughton and BarCap have been frustrated in their search for a credible buyer by the American's price expectations and the debt burden.
They began the search in April after Hicks and Gillett agreed to sell the club and to the appointment of Broughton, chairman of British Airways.
At that time the owners' loans were shifted from RBS's corporate lending arm to their "bad bank", the Global Restructuring Group established in the wake of the global financial crisis to handle its over-leveraged and problem clients.
BarCap are understood to have made a slow start in the search for new owners.
Despite a very public approach, Chinese businessman Kenneth Huang pulled out without making a formal bid amid doubts over the source of his funding, and India's Sahara Group said it was not interested in a deal "at the moment".
The US investment house the Rhone Group made a £100 million offer for a 40 per cent stake earlier this year Unless RBS can identify a new buyers they may be forced to return to the existing field offering the club at a reduced price.
To do that they will have to call time on Hicks and Gillett, a step they have so far declined to take.
Latest from the Telegraph
[size=12pt]RBS ready to step in to force swift Liverpool sale
[/size]Royal Bank of Scotland may take direct control of attempts to find a buyer for Liverpool. It comes amid growing unease at the failure
to remove American Tom Hicks and George Gillett ahead of next month's refinancing deadline.
Paul Kelso
Officially the bank supports the sales process being handled by Liverpool chairman Martin Broughton and investment bank Barclays Capital, but with just 25 days until the expiry of RBS's financing deal with the Americans, the issue is becoming acute for RBS.
Among the narrowing options being considered by executives, including chief executive Stephen Hester, is for RBS to take greater control of the process from BarCap.
This would simplify any deal-making process and could allow the bank to try to force Hicks and Gillett to accept a lower price for the club than the £500 million-plus valuation that looks increasingly unrealistic.
The terms of RBS's £237 million loan to the American owners expires on Oct 6, and if no buyer is realistically close to sealing a deal then the bank will have to decide whether to call in the debt, effectively forcing Hicks and Gillett out, or offer a further extension.
Neither option is straightforward, but The Daily Telegraph understands that RBS will extend the financing deal for a short period only if Broughton indicates there is a realistic chance of a deal being closed quickly after Oct 6.
The bank is extremely reluctant to step in and take direct control of the club however, hence the desire to press hard for a deal in the 25 days before the financing deadline.
Any deal remains reliant on a suitable bidder being interested in the terms on offer however, and Broughton and BarCap have been frustrated in their search for a credible buyer by the American's price expectations and the debt burden.
They began the search in April after Hicks and Gillett agreed to sell the club and to the appointment of Broughton, chairman of British Airways.
At that time the owners' loans were shifted from RBS's corporate lending arm to their "bad bank", the Global Restructuring Group established in the wake of the global financial crisis to handle its over-leveraged and problem clients.
BarCap are understood to have made a slow start in the search for new owners.
Despite a very public approach, Chinese businessman Kenneth Huang pulled out without making a formal bid amid doubts over the source of his funding, and India's Sahara Group said it was not interested in a deal "at the moment".
The US investment house the Rhone Group made a £100 million offer for a 40 per cent stake earlier this year Unless RBS can identify a new buyers they may be forced to return to the existing field offering the club at a reduced price.
To do that they will have to call time on Hicks and Gillett, a step they have so far declined to take.
Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts
[quote author=DHSC link=topic=41783.msg1172190#msg1172190 date=1284186060]
Seriously what the fuck is Broughton doing?
[/quote]
What do you want him do to? The potential buyers wont (apparently) buy us Oct 6.
What is the best (realistically) we can hope for?
[quote author=DHSC link=topic=41783.msg1172190#msg1172190 date=1284186060]
Seriously what the fuck is Broughton doing?
[/quote]
What do you want him do to? The potential buyers wont (apparently) buy us Oct 6.
What is the best (realistically) we can hope for?
Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts
One of two things IMO. Either the bank overcome their reluctance to take over and get it done, or H and G (especially Hicks, who according to other sources is the main stumbling-block to a sale) wise up and realise that the only chance they have of making ANY money is to bring the club down in price.
Not only do I not blame Broughton, I almost feel sorry for him, having to try and get the job done by working around those two cnuts.
One of two things IMO. Either the bank overcome their reluctance to take over and get it done, or H and G (especially Hicks, who according to other sources is the main stumbling-block to a sale) wise up and realise that the only chance they have of making ANY money is to bring the club down in price.
Not only do I not blame Broughton, I almost feel sorry for him, having to try and get the job done by working around those two cnuts.
Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts
[quote author=Wilko link=topic=41783.msg1172138#msg1172138 date=1284154192]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=41783.msg1172078#msg1172078 date=1284145917]
With RBS apparently toughening its stance and getting ready to lower the boom on Statler and Waldorf, is there any chance Hicks might buckle at the last minute and take the best offer on the table? Surely it would pay him to sell direct rather than see RBS do it, since they're hardly likely to prioritise his interests in the process.
[/quote]
That's if there are any offers on the table to take, Jules.
[/quote]
Not necessarily, mate. If Hicks were finally to see sense (not that I hold out much hope of that) and if there are at least two genuinely interested parties still in the game, I would be hopeful that an offer would follow reasonably quickly after any sensible reduction in price.
[quote author=Wilko link=topic=41783.msg1172138#msg1172138 date=1284154192]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=41783.msg1172078#msg1172078 date=1284145917]
With RBS apparently toughening its stance and getting ready to lower the boom on Statler and Waldorf, is there any chance Hicks might buckle at the last minute and take the best offer on the table? Surely it would pay him to sell direct rather than see RBS do it, since they're hardly likely to prioritise his interests in the process.
[/quote]
That's if there are any offers on the table to take, Jules.
[/quote]
Not necessarily, mate. If Hicks were finally to see sense (not that I hold out much hope of that) and if there are at least two genuinely interested parties still in the game, I would be hopeful that an offer would follow reasonably quickly after any sensible reduction in price.
Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts
I agree that's the most likely situation, but the article which localny put up on the previous page of this thread is what I was referring to when I said "if there are [etc]" and gives me some residual hope.
I agree that's the most likely situation, but the article which localny put up on the previous page of this thread is what I was referring to when I said "if there are [etc]" and gives me some residual hope.
Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts
True enough.
I still suspect though that refinancing is almost a non-starter; firstly by the reclassification of the debts s 'toxic' but more importantly because it seems the main stumbling block is Hicks valuation. He's bankrupt and no one's foolish enough to pay 800 million for a club they bought for half a billion less than that and with a mountain of debt placed on it.
If RBS wants to sell the club, and I'm sure they do,then getting the Yanks out might be priority no.1
True enough.
I still suspect though that refinancing is almost a non-starter; firstly by the reclassification of the debts s 'toxic' but more importantly because it seems the main stumbling block is Hicks valuation. He's bankrupt and no one's foolish enough to pay 800 million for a club they bought for half a billion less than that and with a mountain of debt placed on it.
If RBS wants to sell the club, and I'm sure they do,then getting the Yanks out might be priority no.1
Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=41783.msg1172217#msg1172217 date=1284193472]
True enough.
I still suspect though that refinancing is almost a non-starter; firstly by the reclassification of the debts s 'toxic' but more importantly because it seems the main stumbling block is Hicks valuation. He's bankrupt and no one's foolish enough to pay 800 million for a club they bought for half a billion less than that and with a mountain of debt placed on it.
If RBS wants to sell the club, and I'm sure they do,then getting the Yanks out might be priority no.1
[/quote]
I know this topic forever goes round in circles, but I thought Broughton stated unequivocally that H&G were not at liberty to set any price.
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=41783.msg1172217#msg1172217 date=1284193472]
True enough.
I still suspect though that refinancing is almost a non-starter; firstly by the reclassification of the debts s 'toxic' but more importantly because it seems the main stumbling block is Hicks valuation. He's bankrupt and no one's foolish enough to pay 800 million for a club they bought for half a billion less than that and with a mountain of debt placed on it.
If RBS wants to sell the club, and I'm sure they do,then getting the Yanks out might be priority no.1
[/quote]
I know this topic forever goes round in circles, but I thought Broughton stated unequivocally that H&G were not at liberty to set any price.
Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts
Not quite. He said they wouldn't be able to stop the sale, the implication presumably being "if one is agreed".
Not quite. He said they wouldn't be able to stop the sale, the implication presumably being "if one is agreed".
Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=41783.msg1172223#msg1172223 date=1284194417]
No, but any acceptance of a bid groslly below their valuation would properly trigger litigation.
As long as the loans arent called in I'd say they still call the shots on the sale.
[/quote]
The longer they dig their heels in, though, the more that balance may shift against them if they drive everyone else to the point where litigation (which H and G would be by no means guaranteed to win) is seen as a risk worth taking to try and get the club out of their clammy grasp.
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=41783.msg1172223#msg1172223 date=1284194417]
No, but any acceptance of a bid groslly below their valuation would properly trigger litigation.
As long as the loans arent called in I'd say they still call the shots on the sale.
[/quote]
The longer they dig their heels in, though, the more that balance may shift against them if they drive everyone else to the point where litigation (which H and G would be by no means guaranteed to win) is seen as a risk worth taking to try and get the club out of their clammy grasp.
Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts
[quote author=keniget link=topic=41783.msg1172226#msg1172226 date=1284194732]
So Broughton effectively came onboard for a pay day.
[/quote]
That's it in a nutshell.
He lied, he had no intentions of ever selling the club. Just in it for the money like the rest of them and lying to the fans.
Or else things are a bit more complex.
[quote author=keniget link=topic=41783.msg1172226#msg1172226 date=1284194732]
So Broughton effectively came onboard for a pay day.
[/quote]
That's it in a nutshell.
He lied, he had no intentions of ever selling the club. Just in it for the money like the rest of them and lying to the fans.
Or else things are a bit more complex.
Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=41783.msg1172225#msg1172225 date=1284194638]
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=41783.msg1172223#msg1172223 date=1284194417]
No, but any acceptance of a bid groslly below their valuation would properly trigger litigation.
As long as the loans arent called in I'd say they still call the shots on the sale.
[/quote]
The longer they dig their heels in, though, the more that balance may shift against them if they drive everyone else to the point where litigation (which H and G would be by no means guaranteed to win) is seen as a risk worth taking to try and get the club out of their clammy grasp.
[/quote]
Oh, they'll certainly lose if they went to court.
There are no obvious buyers because of the ridiculous valuation and t RBS would be well within it's rights to call in the loans.
Litigation is only useful as a weapon to derail everything.
The problem isnt refinancing, since unless the Yanks show any ability to secure alternated financing, RBS would be silly to extend the loans as the only real likelihood of any repayment being met will be based on using the club as collateral yet again. Which will postpone the sale and make the asking price ever higher.
The problem will be IMO when the ank attempts to sell the club at a price which is high enough to recoup their interest but is too low for the Yanks liking.
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=41783.msg1172225#msg1172225 date=1284194638]
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=41783.msg1172223#msg1172223 date=1284194417]
No, but any acceptance of a bid groslly below their valuation would properly trigger litigation.
As long as the loans arent called in I'd say they still call the shots on the sale.
[/quote]
The longer they dig their heels in, though, the more that balance may shift against them if they drive everyone else to the point where litigation (which H and G would be by no means guaranteed to win) is seen as a risk worth taking to try and get the club out of their clammy grasp.
[/quote]
Oh, they'll certainly lose if they went to court.
There are no obvious buyers because of the ridiculous valuation and t RBS would be well within it's rights to call in the loans.
Litigation is only useful as a weapon to derail everything.
The problem isnt refinancing, since unless the Yanks show any ability to secure alternated financing, RBS would be silly to extend the loans as the only real likelihood of any repayment being met will be based on using the club as collateral yet again. Which will postpone the sale and make the asking price ever higher.
The problem will be IMO when the ank attempts to sell the club at a price which is high enough to recoup their interest but is too low for the Yanks liking.
Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=41783.msg1172228#msg1172228 date=1284194939]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=41783.msg1172226#msg1172226 date=1284194732]
So Broughton effectively came onboard for a pay day.
[/quote]
That's it in a nutshell.
He lied, he had no intentions of ever selling the club. Just in it for the money like the rest of them and lying to the fans.
Or else things are a bit more complex.
[/quote]
I think that's a bit harsh to be honest, He was brought in as a condition to a final refinancing. The problem Broughton has is that there was a deadline to sell. At the very start he said there was no deadline to try and get buyers to buy, but it wasn't a very big secret. Why would any buyer buy when they know they will get the club for a knockdown price. It make's Broughton's job near impossible. In all honesty he may have saved us from 2 clowns already (Kirdi & Huang).
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=41783.msg1172228#msg1172228 date=1284194939]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=41783.msg1172226#msg1172226 date=1284194732]
So Broughton effectively came onboard for a pay day.
[/quote]
That's it in a nutshell.
He lied, he had no intentions of ever selling the club. Just in it for the money like the rest of them and lying to the fans.
Or else things are a bit more complex.
[/quote]
I think that's a bit harsh to be honest, He was brought in as a condition to a final refinancing. The problem Broughton has is that there was a deadline to sell. At the very start he said there was no deadline to try and get buyers to buy, but it wasn't a very big secret. Why would any buyer buy when they know they will get the club for a knockdown price. It make's Broughton's job near impossible. In all honesty he may have saved us from 2 clowns already (Kirdi & Huang).
Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts
I should have included a smiley !
I agree with you Redshrek, he was given an impossible task - made more difficult by the lack of appreciation amongst fans of the actual situation (he has no power to actually sell the club, the Yanks have)
I should have included a smiley !
I agree with you Redshrek, he was given an impossible task - made more difficult by the lack of appreciation amongst fans of the actual situation (he has no power to actually sell the club, the Yanks have)
Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=41783.msg1172243#msg1172243 date=1284196694]
I should have included a smiley !
I agree with you Redshrek, he was given an impossible task - made more difficult by the lack of appreciation amongst fans of the actual situation (he has no power to actually sell the club, the Yanks have)
[/quote]
Ah right, The point about it's up to the yanks in 3 weeks it won't be if RBS refuse to refinance. So let's hope they don't!
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=41783.msg1172243#msg1172243 date=1284196694]
I should have included a smiley !
I agree with you Redshrek, he was given an impossible task - made more difficult by the lack of appreciation amongst fans of the actual situation (he has no power to actually sell the club, the Yanks have)
[/quote]
Ah right, The point about it's up to the yanks in 3 weeks it won't be if RBS refuse to refinance. So let's hope they don't!
Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts
I appreciate the situation - that it was an impossible task - which I'm sure he did as well. So why did he sign up for a job very much in the public eye that he was almost certainly going to fail at doing?
I've asked this before and someone replied - Brendan maybe - for the money. It's an obvious reason I suppose, but surely he's got enough of that. As a favour to someone? For other reasons?
On the face of it, it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense for him.
I appreciate the situation - that it was an impossible task - which I'm sure he did as well. So why did he sign up for a job very much in the public eye that he was almost certainly going to fail at doing?
I've asked this before and someone replied - Brendan maybe - for the money. It's an obvious reason I suppose, but surely he's got enough of that. As a favour to someone? For other reasons?
On the face of it, it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense for him.
Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts
[quote author=keniget link=topic=41783.msg1172283#msg1172283 date=1284201514]
I appreciate the situation - that it was an impossible task - which I'm sure he did as well. So why did he sign up for a job very much in the public eye that he was almost certainly going to fail at doing?
I've asked this before and someone replied - Brendan maybe - for the money. It's an obvious reason I suppose, but surely he's got enough of that. As a favour to someone? For other reasons?
On the face of it, it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense for him.
[/quote]
He's got a job at a club that he'd not otherwise have a chance at, a club he might feel he could at least steady, which isn't an impossible task. He took the challenge knowing that unlike Rafa he'd get some sympathy, because he's the new, inoffensive English guy. He took it knowing that there'd be a significant chance that the ownership situation would be resolved, giving him a period to impress the new owner.
I think he wanted the challenge, and knew he'd not have another chance at a club of the size.
[quote author=keniget link=topic=41783.msg1172283#msg1172283 date=1284201514]
I appreciate the situation - that it was an impossible task - which I'm sure he did as well. So why did he sign up for a job very much in the public eye that he was almost certainly going to fail at doing?
I've asked this before and someone replied - Brendan maybe - for the money. It's an obvious reason I suppose, but surely he's got enough of that. As a favour to someone? For other reasons?
On the face of it, it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense for him.
[/quote]
He's got a job at a club that he'd not otherwise have a chance at, a club he might feel he could at least steady, which isn't an impossible task. He took the challenge knowing that unlike Rafa he'd get some sympathy, because he's the new, inoffensive English guy. He took it knowing that there'd be a significant chance that the ownership situation would be resolved, giving him a period to impress the new owner.
I think he wanted the challenge, and knew he'd not have another chance at a club of the size.
Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=41783.msg1172294#msg1172294 date=1284202578]
Ego
[/quote]
He felt he could achieve the (near) impossible whereas others have failed?
It might well have played a factor in his decision, but I must admit even then it doesn't seem to quite be worth the risk. It's a strange one.
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=41783.msg1172294#msg1172294 date=1284202578]
Ego
[/quote]
He felt he could achieve the (near) impossible whereas others have failed?
It might well have played a factor in his decision, but I must admit even then it doesn't seem to quite be worth the risk. It's a strange one.
Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=41783.msg1172296#msg1172296 date=1284202758]
He's got a job at a club that he'd not otherwise have a chance at, a club he might feel he could at least steady, which isn't an impossible task. He took the challenge knowing that unlike Rafa he'd get some sympathy, because he's the new, inoffensive English guy. He took it knowing that there'd be a significant chance that the ownership situation would be resolved, giving him a period to impress the new owner.
I think he wanted the challenge, and knew he'd not have another chance at a club of the size.
[/quote]
We're talking about Broughton Fark.
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=41783.msg1172296#msg1172296 date=1284202758]
He's got a job at a club that he'd not otherwise have a chance at, a club he might feel he could at least steady, which isn't an impossible task. He took the challenge knowing that unlike Rafa he'd get some sympathy, because he's the new, inoffensive English guy. He took it knowing that there'd be a significant chance that the ownership situation would be resolved, giving him a period to impress the new owner.
I think he wanted the challenge, and knew he'd not have another chance at a club of the size.
[/quote]
We're talking about Broughton Fark.
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