LFC SOLD to NESV.
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Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts
They will actually. Their loans to Statler and Waldorf total about half as much again.
They will actually. Their loans to Statler and Waldorf total about half as much again.
Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=41783.msg1170858#msg1170858 date=1283885516]
They will actually. Their loans to Statler and Waldorf total about half as much again.
[/quote]
But what bout all the interest payments already? Haven't they been massive.
Anyway, it's quite likely that the £150M isn't the right figure, but they won't necessarily be valuing the club in order to make sure they make the most money back. They'll want to make sure they've made a reasonable profit and get the sale done quickly.
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=41783.msg1170858#msg1170858 date=1283885516]
They will actually. Their loans to Statler and Waldorf total about half as much again.
[/quote]
But what bout all the interest payments already? Haven't they been massive.
Anyway, it's quite likely that the £150M isn't the right figure, but they won't necessarily be valuing the club in order to make sure they make the most money back. They'll want to make sure they've made a reasonable profit and get the sale done quickly.
Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts
Robin, those interest payments have indeed been massive, as we and the club know to our cost, but as interest payments they won't have touched the actual amount loaned, which remains at £237 mill.or thereabouts.
Agree your second para.though, not least given the time RBS have already had to wait to see their money repaid.
Robin, those interest payments have indeed been massive, as we and the club know to our cost, but as interest payments they won't have touched the actual amount loaned, which remains at £237 mill.or thereabouts.
Agree your second para.though, not least given the time RBS have already had to wait to see their money repaid.
Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts
Yeah, of course I know those payments won't officilly touch the size of the debt, but nevertheless, RBS will know very well how much they've made overall, and if they've made a decent profit, they probably won't have a second thought about selling the club off officially at a loss and leaving G&H bankrupt (ie still owing them the rest).
Yeah, of course I know those payments won't officilly touch the size of the debt, but nevertheless, RBS will know very well how much they've made overall, and if they've made a decent profit, they probably won't have a second thought about selling the club off officially at a loss and leaving G&H bankrupt (ie still owing them the rest).
Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts
If we get owned by RBS, and RBs are mostly owned by the taxpayer, doesnt that mean we'll be the 1st fan owned club, something some have wanted for years? 😉
If we get owned by RBS, and RBs are mostly owned by the taxpayer, doesnt that mean we'll be the 1st fan owned club, something some have wanted for years? 😉
S
Squiggles
Guest
Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts
Only Liverpool fans pay tax?
Only Liverpool fans pay tax?
Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts
Does anyone have any real idea as to what the true financial position is at Liverpool, apart from 'it's bad'?
I mean is Harry Harris really qualified to explain it to us?
It seems like everyday now that there is another expert who spins the story in a slightly different way. I'm thoroughly confused.
Whose information can you trust?
I just want someone to make it stop so that we can just talk about football. Bring back Sir John Smith please.
Does anyone have any real idea as to what the true financial position is at Liverpool, apart from 'it's bad'?
I mean is Harry Harris really qualified to explain it to us?
It seems like everyday now that there is another expert who spins the story in a slightly different way. I'm thoroughly confused.
Whose information can you trust?
I just want someone to make it stop so that we can just talk about football. Bring back Sir John Smith please.
Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts
[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=41783.msg1171123#msg1171123 date=1283936734]
Does anyone have any real idea as to what the true financial position is at Liverpool, apart from 'it's bad'?
I mean is Harry Harris really qualified to explain it to us?
It seems like everyday now that there is another expert who spins the story in a slightly different way. I'm thoroughly confused.
Whose information can you trust?
I just want someone to make it stop so that we can just talk about football. Bring back Sir John Smith please.
[/quote]
* basically the current path we are on is unsustainable because the loan plus wages will soon exceed our turnover
* then you have G&H attempting to refinance which will increase the loan and push up the price the club will be sold for making it more unlikely we'll be sold
* the increased loan (if the refinance is approved) will mean higher charges, which will mean less money reinvested into the team making it less likely for us to compete at the top and no CL means less money to spend on players.
the finance position is pretty dire.
[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=41783.msg1171123#msg1171123 date=1283936734]
Does anyone have any real idea as to what the true financial position is at Liverpool, apart from 'it's bad'?
I mean is Harry Harris really qualified to explain it to us?
It seems like everyday now that there is another expert who spins the story in a slightly different way. I'm thoroughly confused.
Whose information can you trust?
I just want someone to make it stop so that we can just talk about football. Bring back Sir John Smith please.
[/quote]
* basically the current path we are on is unsustainable because the loan plus wages will soon exceed our turnover
* then you have G&H attempting to refinance which will increase the loan and push up the price the club will be sold for making it more unlikely we'll be sold
* the increased loan (if the refinance is approved) will mean higher charges, which will mean less money reinvested into the team making it less likely for us to compete at the top and no CL means less money to spend on players.
the finance position is pretty dire.
Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts
I wonder how many investors are sitting back saying "There's no way LFC can compete with Man City, Arsenal, United, and Chelsea" in terms of player salaries, and purchases. As a business, trying to keep up with city would lead any P&L owner to conclude they'd be putting money into a black hole surely!
I wonder how many investors are sitting back saying "There's no way LFC can compete with Man City, Arsenal, United, and Chelsea" in terms of player salaries, and purchases. As a business, trying to keep up with city would lead any P&L owner to conclude they'd be putting money into a black hole surely!
S
Squiggles
Guest
Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts
Nobody is expecting s to compete with City and Chelsea financially.
Our hopes are far more modest.
Nobody is expecting s to compete with City and Chelsea financially.
Our hopes are far more modest.
Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts
[quote author=Wilko link=topic=41783.msg1171431#msg1171431 date=1283997902]
Keep that shit under your hat, NY person.
[/quote]
???
[quote author=Wilko link=topic=41783.msg1171431#msg1171431 date=1283997902]
Keep that shit under your hat, NY person.
[/quote]
???
Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts
[quote author=localny link=topic=41783.msg1171405#msg1171405 date=1283983293]
I wonder how many investors are sitting back saying "There's no way LFC can compete with Man City, Arsenal, United, and Chelsea" in terms of player salaries, and purchases. As a business, trying to keep up with city would lead any P&L owner to conclude they'd be putting money into a black hole surely!
[/quote]
I don't think you are considering the new financial rules due in a couple of years where clubs must live within their means and not make persistent losses this would ease any worries a potential new owner might have there.
To that end we need someone to come in and spend big before the rules take effect, to give us a bit of a boost and keep us ahead of the pack.
That is one reason why Mansour is spending like a loony now they need to rocket City up there.
My thoughts are that these rules will help the likes of us, and United with a traditional and deep fan base , marketing is going to be very important.
At least that's the way I see it.
[quote author=localny link=topic=41783.msg1171405#msg1171405 date=1283983293]
I wonder how many investors are sitting back saying "There's no way LFC can compete with Man City, Arsenal, United, and Chelsea" in terms of player salaries, and purchases. As a business, trying to keep up with city would lead any P&L owner to conclude they'd be putting money into a black hole surely!
[/quote]
I don't think you are considering the new financial rules due in a couple of years where clubs must live within their means and not make persistent losses this would ease any worries a potential new owner might have there.
To that end we need someone to come in and spend big before the rules take effect, to give us a bit of a boost and keep us ahead of the pack.
That is one reason why Mansour is spending like a loony now they need to rocket City up there.
My thoughts are that these rules will help the likes of us, and United with a traditional and deep fan base , marketing is going to be very important.
At least that's the way I see it.
Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=41783.msg1171466#msg1171466 date=1284018474]
[quote author=localny link=topic=41783.msg1171405#msg1171405 date=1283983293]
I wonder how many investors are sitting back saying "There's no way LFC can compete with Man City, Arsenal, United, and Chelsea" in terms of player salaries, and purchases. As a business, trying to keep up with city would lead any P&L owner to conclude they'd be putting money into a black hole surely!
[/quote]
I don't think you are considering the new financial rules due in a couple of years where clubs must live within their means and not make persistent losses this would ease any worries a potential new owner might have there.
To that end we need someone to come in and spend big before the rules take effect, to give us a bit of a boost and keep us ahead of the pack.
That is one reason why Mansour is spending like a loony now they need to rocket City up there.
My thoughts are that these rules will help the likes of us, and United with a traditional and deep fan base , marketing is going to be very important.
At least that's the way I see it.
[/quote]
I believe City are paying too much wages to attract top players This will bite them in the ass when that rule comes in.
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=41783.msg1171466#msg1171466 date=1284018474]
[quote author=localny link=topic=41783.msg1171405#msg1171405 date=1283983293]
I wonder how many investors are sitting back saying "There's no way LFC can compete with Man City, Arsenal, United, and Chelsea" in terms of player salaries, and purchases. As a business, trying to keep up with city would lead any P&L owner to conclude they'd be putting money into a black hole surely!
[/quote]
I don't think you are considering the new financial rules due in a couple of years where clubs must live within their means and not make persistent losses this would ease any worries a potential new owner might have there.
To that end we need someone to come in and spend big before the rules take effect, to give us a bit of a boost and keep us ahead of the pack.
That is one reason why Mansour is spending like a loony now they need to rocket City up there.
My thoughts are that these rules will help the likes of us, and United with a traditional and deep fan base , marketing is going to be very important.
At least that's the way I see it.
[/quote]
I believe City are paying too much wages to attract top players This will bite them in the ass when that rule comes in.
Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=41783.msg1171468#msg1171468 date=1284019354]
I believe City are paying too much wages to attract top players
[/quote]
Er? Players won't join City cos they'll pay them to much? They could just ask for less...
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=41783.msg1171468#msg1171468 date=1284019354]
I believe City are paying too much wages to attract top players
[/quote]
Er? Players won't join City cos they'll pay them to much? They could just ask for less...
Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts
[quote author=Mystic link=topic=41783.msg1171473#msg1171473 date=1284020082]
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=41783.msg1171468#msg1171468 date=1284019354]
I believe City are paying too much wages to attract top players
[/quote]
Er? Players won't join City cos they'll pay them to much? They could just ask for less...
[/quote]
I did not say that.
Some top players are only joining City because of the over-the-top wages on offer. Barry on nearly 100k a week is absurd. I said City will have a problem when rules such as wages should be x% of annual turnover are implemented.
[quote author=Mystic link=topic=41783.msg1171473#msg1171473 date=1284020082]
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=41783.msg1171468#msg1171468 date=1284019354]
I believe City are paying too much wages to attract top players
[/quote]
Er? Players won't join City cos they'll pay them to much? They could just ask for less...
[/quote]
I did not say that.
Some top players are only joining City because of the over-the-top wages on offer. Barry on nearly 100k a week is absurd. I said City will have a problem when rules such as wages should be x% of annual turnover are implemented.
Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts
Ahhh, I read that differently too.
City are paying too much wages so as to attract top players 😉
Ahhh, I read that differently too.
City are paying too much wages so as to attract top players 😉
Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts
[quote author=localny link=topic=41783.msg1171433#msg1171433 date=1284002463]
[quote author=Wilko link=topic=41783.msg1171431#msg1171431 date=1283997902]
Keep that shit under your hat, NY person.
[/quote]
Ye Whaaa?
[/quote]
Just in case one or two posters were thinking of putting in an offer.
[quote author=localny link=topic=41783.msg1171433#msg1171433 date=1284002463]
[quote author=Wilko link=topic=41783.msg1171431#msg1171431 date=1283997902]
Keep that shit under your hat, NY person.
[/quote]
Ye Whaaa?
[/quote]
Just in case one or two posters were thinking of putting in an offer.
Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts
Oct 6th is drawing ever closer, I hope the board remain strong in what will probably make or finish us.
Oct 6th is drawing ever closer, I hope the board remain strong in what will probably make or finish us.
Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=41783.msg1171466#msg1171466 date=1284018474]
[quote author=localny link=topic=41783.msg1171405#msg1171405 date=1283983293]
I wonder how many investors are sitting back saying "There's no way LFC can compete with Man City, Arsenal, United, and Chelsea" in terms of player salaries, and purchases. As a business, trying to keep up with city would lead any P&L owner to conclude they'd be putting money into a black hole surely!
[/quote]
I don't think you are considering the new financial rules due in a couple of years where clubs must live within their means and not make persistent losses this would ease any worries a potential new owner might have there.
To that end we need someone to come in and spend big before the rules take effect, to give us a bit of a boost and keep us ahead of the pack.
That is one reason why Mansour is spending like a loony now they need to rocket City up there.
My thoughts are that these rules will help the likes of us, and United with a traditional and deep fan base , marketing is going to be very important.
At least that's the way I see it.
[/quote]
Yes good call, I wasn't considering it alas. Hopefully they will work...and level that playing field, but a couple of years is a long time 😉. I wonder will other clubs be in a rush to spend the money and build clubs before the rules come in as well..right now it looks like just City. Fan bases are built on success though, and by 2014, it may have been a while since we've won anything..
Wilko, As for the potential buyers on these boards? I think they're not too likely to be swayed by a guy in his living room, waxing lyrical...😉
Onward to October 6 - I can't see RBS allowing us to refinance, but if G and H do, it really would be the end.
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=41783.msg1171466#msg1171466 date=1284018474]
[quote author=localny link=topic=41783.msg1171405#msg1171405 date=1283983293]
I wonder how many investors are sitting back saying "There's no way LFC can compete with Man City, Arsenal, United, and Chelsea" in terms of player salaries, and purchases. As a business, trying to keep up with city would lead any P&L owner to conclude they'd be putting money into a black hole surely!
[/quote]
I don't think you are considering the new financial rules due in a couple of years where clubs must live within their means and not make persistent losses this would ease any worries a potential new owner might have there.
To that end we need someone to come in and spend big before the rules take effect, to give us a bit of a boost and keep us ahead of the pack.
That is one reason why Mansour is spending like a loony now they need to rocket City up there.
My thoughts are that these rules will help the likes of us, and United with a traditional and deep fan base , marketing is going to be very important.
At least that's the way I see it.
[/quote]
Yes good call, I wasn't considering it alas. Hopefully they will work...and level that playing field, but a couple of years is a long time 😉. I wonder will other clubs be in a rush to spend the money and build clubs before the rules come in as well..right now it looks like just City. Fan bases are built on success though, and by 2014, it may have been a while since we've won anything..
Wilko, As for the potential buyers on these boards? I think they're not too likely to be swayed by a guy in his living room, waxing lyrical...😉
Onward to October 6 - I can't see RBS allowing us to refinance, but if G and H do, it really would be the end.
Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts
Why there's a very real chance that Liverpool could go bust on October 6 unless fans act now
By David Maddock
Published 16:55 08/09/10
October 6. Put this date in your diary. It is the day when the very destiny of Liverpool Football Club will be decided.
If that sounds dramatic, then it is meant to be so, because on that day there is a real danger that one of the most famous and historic clubs in world football could be brought to its knees.
Let me say now, that Liverpool are actually a well-run, well managed club, which, even with its current commercial performance and before stadium development, could be among the most profitable in the English game.
They are broke though, for one very good reason: The burden of acquisition interest that is place directly on the club. Or in simple terms for those who prefer their information in English, Liverpool are paying millions every month for the dubious pleasure of Tom Hicks and George Gillett owning them.
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If that is allowed to continue, if Tom Hicks and George Gillett are allowed to continue with their ownership under its current format, then it spells disaster for Liverpool. It could even see them go bust.
It really could happen. Hicks and Gillett want to sell their ‘soccer franchise’, but they also want to make a profit out of it. Indeed, they want – and need – to make a big profit.
At the moment it is clear there are no takers at their asking price. Rather than sell, they are now desperately trying to refinance to ensure they can hold on to the business until they CAN sell it at their valuation.
But to do that, they will probably have to borrow even more money at even higher rates, and use the club’s assets to underwrite those loans. And we all know what that means. If you don’t, just ask Portsmouth or Leeds fans.
So October 6 becomes vitally important. That is the date that the Americans’ current lenders, the Royal Bank of Scotland, have set for repayment of loans totalling around £285million at the last count.
By then, the Yanks must have either sold Liverpool, or raised the funds to replace that existing debt with new debt. Or – and here is an intriguing third possibility – have persuaded the RBS to extend those loans once more.
Every single Liverpool fan the world over now recognises the danger of that happening, because it will merely extend an essentially unsustainable financial structure at Anfield. It will merely extend the threat of the club collapsing.
Even the much-maligned board at Anfield recognises it. Apparently, Chairman Martin Broughton and MD Christian Purslow, along with commercial director Ian Ayre, have already resisted one attempt by the Americans to use the club’s assets against new loans.
They know Liverpool could well be doomed if the Yanks hold on to power, and they seem to understand that the best interests of the club certainly aren’t served by that nightmare scenario.
I say seem to understand, because Broughton seems to have decided that the fans don’t deserve any information about what the hell is going on through the Merseyside media. He seems only to be prepared to talk to obscure business sources.
Purslow too, seems to have gone into hiding, bizarrely breaking off all contact with the fans, through the media, for the past six months. Attempts to ask him questions – as fans on a popular Liverpool website have tried to do recently – are met with silence, as are all interview requests.
But credit to them both and to Ayre, there is no question they are trying to resist the Americans’ attempts to retain control. For all the criticism aimed their way, much of it justified, they are trying to do what the fans so desperately want. They are trying to do the right thing, and fans shouldn’t forget that.
Without wishing to be too pessimistic though, there are no guarantees they will succeed. Already there are rumours of a legal challenge to the three directors blocking the two Americans on the board.
And who amongst us doesn’t believe that after decades of the most cunning business dealings that have made them both billionaires, that Gillett and Hicks aren’t stealthy enough to somehow pull off their latest despicable plan.
They are ruthless enough, after a combined ten decades in the leveraged buy-out business, that is for sure. Don’t think for one second they are going to roll over and simply accept that Liverpool will be taken from them and sold at a loss.
Which is why October 6 is so important. Let’s get real again here for a second. The RBS are making millions of pounds of profit from Liverpool, who so far have had no trouble at all meeting the repayments. In that sense, it is a gilt-edged investment for them.
So they will be reluctant to let it go easily, and still – possibly – open to persuasion from the Americans to extend, if yet more guarantees are proferred.
Other banks may well feel the same, that there is easy, unrisky profit to be made from extending credit to Hicks and Gillett, because the club will meet the liability. And that is the true danger to Liverpool as a storied club.
It is where the fans must come in, because it is down to them to stop either the RBS or any other bank perpetuating the current nightmare that has engulfed Anfield and threatened its very future.
Supporters are already responding in their thousands. I have highlighted here before the work of Kopfaithful, who are actively campaigning to ensure the RBS realise the risks of a massive backlash if they are to extend the Americans’ loans.
They have an intelligent, well-organised campaign which has spoken to MPs in the House of Commons, to major financial institutions in the UK and to major media outlets in the U.S., explaining the feelings of millions of worried Liverpool supporters.
They discovered that the Americans have approached at least 10 different institutions for refinance funding, and are now fervently trying to block that possibility, by orchestrating an email campaign to the likes of the Wall St Journal and NYTimes.
They are also making it clear to the RBS that there will be massive opposition if they don’t act in the best interests of Liverpool fans. The bank’s HQ in Edinburgh will allow access to vistors as part of an open house scheme on September 25, and guess who plans to be there?!
Kopfaithful want to talk to RBS Chief Executive Stephen Hester, to make clear the opposition to the Americans.
They are backed by several fans’ groups too, who are all aware of the dangers facing Liverpool right now. Influential websites such as Red and White Kop and You’ll Never Walk Alone are meeting along with several others this very evening, to discuss tactics. They are planning protests that will highlight the depth of feeling, and the potential power of such a massive body of committed support.
And that’s where you can help if you are a true Liverpool fan. October 6 is D-Day, and the more supporters make clear their opposition to any institution offering finance to the Americans, the less chance of it happening.
Back Kopfaithful, back Red and White Kop, back all the other fans’ groups who love Liverpool and are desperate to save the club. Do it calmly, nicely, but back them.
There is a chance that the Americans’ plans to refinance can be blocked, and if that happens, then there is a real chance the RBS can assume temporary control as they seek to sell the club to a responsible buyer.
If that can happen, then Liverpool can be great again. They already make an operating profit because they are operating efficiently without the Americans’ debt.
Without ownership debt on the club they can build a new stadium and turn profits – which can be invested in playing assets – that will make most Premiership MDs’ eyes water. So it is D-Day at Anfield on October 6, and you, the fan, can have a massive say in what happens.
Read more: http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/columnists/david-maddock/David-Maddock-column-Why-there-s-a-very-real-chance-that-Liverpool-could-go-bust-on-October-6-unless-fans-act-now-to-prevent-Hicks-and-Gillett-ruining-club-article575201.html#ixzz0z2nKm7i8
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Why there's a very real chance that Liverpool could go bust on October 6 unless fans act now
By David Maddock
Published 16:55 08/09/10
October 6. Put this date in your diary. It is the day when the very destiny of Liverpool Football Club will be decided.
If that sounds dramatic, then it is meant to be so, because on that day there is a real danger that one of the most famous and historic clubs in world football could be brought to its knees.
Let me say now, that Liverpool are actually a well-run, well managed club, which, even with its current commercial performance and before stadium development, could be among the most profitable in the English game.
They are broke though, for one very good reason: The burden of acquisition interest that is place directly on the club. Or in simple terms for those who prefer their information in English, Liverpool are paying millions every month for the dubious pleasure of Tom Hicks and George Gillett owning them.
Baldwin: Make $87/hr
Unemployed Mom makes $7285/Month Working Online! Read How She Did It SHOCKING: 2010 Honda Civic for $1,732.42
Breaking News: Is this a Scam? You WON'T believe what we found! Baldwin: Local Mom Makes $77/hr Online!
Unemployed Mom Makes $6,397/Month Working Online! Read How She Did It.
If that is allowed to continue, if Tom Hicks and George Gillett are allowed to continue with their ownership under its current format, then it spells disaster for Liverpool. It could even see them go bust.
It really could happen. Hicks and Gillett want to sell their ‘soccer franchise’, but they also want to make a profit out of it. Indeed, they want – and need – to make a big profit.
At the moment it is clear there are no takers at their asking price. Rather than sell, they are now desperately trying to refinance to ensure they can hold on to the business until they CAN sell it at their valuation.
But to do that, they will probably have to borrow even more money at even higher rates, and use the club’s assets to underwrite those loans. And we all know what that means. If you don’t, just ask Portsmouth or Leeds fans.
So October 6 becomes vitally important. That is the date that the Americans’ current lenders, the Royal Bank of Scotland, have set for repayment of loans totalling around £285million at the last count.
By then, the Yanks must have either sold Liverpool, or raised the funds to replace that existing debt with new debt. Or – and here is an intriguing third possibility – have persuaded the RBS to extend those loans once more.
Every single Liverpool fan the world over now recognises the danger of that happening, because it will merely extend an essentially unsustainable financial structure at Anfield. It will merely extend the threat of the club collapsing.
Even the much-maligned board at Anfield recognises it. Apparently, Chairman Martin Broughton and MD Christian Purslow, along with commercial director Ian Ayre, have already resisted one attempt by the Americans to use the club’s assets against new loans.
They know Liverpool could well be doomed if the Yanks hold on to power, and they seem to understand that the best interests of the club certainly aren’t served by that nightmare scenario.
I say seem to understand, because Broughton seems to have decided that the fans don’t deserve any information about what the hell is going on through the Merseyside media. He seems only to be prepared to talk to obscure business sources.
Purslow too, seems to have gone into hiding, bizarrely breaking off all contact with the fans, through the media, for the past six months. Attempts to ask him questions – as fans on a popular Liverpool website have tried to do recently – are met with silence, as are all interview requests.
But credit to them both and to Ayre, there is no question they are trying to resist the Americans’ attempts to retain control. For all the criticism aimed their way, much of it justified, they are trying to do what the fans so desperately want. They are trying to do the right thing, and fans shouldn’t forget that.
Without wishing to be too pessimistic though, there are no guarantees they will succeed. Already there are rumours of a legal challenge to the three directors blocking the two Americans on the board.
And who amongst us doesn’t believe that after decades of the most cunning business dealings that have made them both billionaires, that Gillett and Hicks aren’t stealthy enough to somehow pull off their latest despicable plan.
They are ruthless enough, after a combined ten decades in the leveraged buy-out business, that is for sure. Don’t think for one second they are going to roll over and simply accept that Liverpool will be taken from them and sold at a loss.
Which is why October 6 is so important. Let’s get real again here for a second. The RBS are making millions of pounds of profit from Liverpool, who so far have had no trouble at all meeting the repayments. In that sense, it is a gilt-edged investment for them.
So they will be reluctant to let it go easily, and still – possibly – open to persuasion from the Americans to extend, if yet more guarantees are proferred.
Other banks may well feel the same, that there is easy, unrisky profit to be made from extending credit to Hicks and Gillett, because the club will meet the liability. And that is the true danger to Liverpool as a storied club.
It is where the fans must come in, because it is down to them to stop either the RBS or any other bank perpetuating the current nightmare that has engulfed Anfield and threatened its very future.
Supporters are already responding in their thousands. I have highlighted here before the work of Kopfaithful, who are actively campaigning to ensure the RBS realise the risks of a massive backlash if they are to extend the Americans’ loans.
They have an intelligent, well-organised campaign which has spoken to MPs in the House of Commons, to major financial institutions in the UK and to major media outlets in the U.S., explaining the feelings of millions of worried Liverpool supporters.
They discovered that the Americans have approached at least 10 different institutions for refinance funding, and are now fervently trying to block that possibility, by orchestrating an email campaign to the likes of the Wall St Journal and NYTimes.
They are also making it clear to the RBS that there will be massive opposition if they don’t act in the best interests of Liverpool fans. The bank’s HQ in Edinburgh will allow access to vistors as part of an open house scheme on September 25, and guess who plans to be there?!
Kopfaithful want to talk to RBS Chief Executive Stephen Hester, to make clear the opposition to the Americans.
They are backed by several fans’ groups too, who are all aware of the dangers facing Liverpool right now. Influential websites such as Red and White Kop and You’ll Never Walk Alone are meeting along with several others this very evening, to discuss tactics. They are planning protests that will highlight the depth of feeling, and the potential power of such a massive body of committed support.
And that’s where you can help if you are a true Liverpool fan. October 6 is D-Day, and the more supporters make clear their opposition to any institution offering finance to the Americans, the less chance of it happening.
Back Kopfaithful, back Red and White Kop, back all the other fans’ groups who love Liverpool and are desperate to save the club. Do it calmly, nicely, but back them.
There is a chance that the Americans’ plans to refinance can be blocked, and if that happens, then there is a real chance the RBS can assume temporary control as they seek to sell the club to a responsible buyer.
If that can happen, then Liverpool can be great again. They already make an operating profit because they are operating efficiently without the Americans’ debt.
Without ownership debt on the club they can build a new stadium and turn profits – which can be invested in playing assets – that will make most Premiership MDs’ eyes water. So it is D-Day at Anfield on October 6, and you, the fan, can have a massive say in what happens.
Read more: http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/columnists/david-maddock/David-Maddock-column-Why-there-s-a-very-real-chance-that-Liverpool-could-go-bust-on-October-6-unless-fans-act-now-to-prevent-Hicks-and-Gillett-ruining-club-article575201.html#ixzz0z2nKm7i8
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Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts
I think if we are run well with no ownership debt, consistent improvement in marketing, couple that with a good football manager and academy setup, we will have enough money to have a competitive team. I don't think we may need to pay City level wages to attract the Torres, Alonso's and the Reina's.
I think if we are run well with no ownership debt, consistent improvement in marketing, couple that with a good football manager and academy setup, we will have enough money to have a competitive team. I don't think we may need to pay City level wages to attract the Torres, Alonso's and the Reina's.
Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts
Extremely dodgy translation ;D
Sandor Varga: The lawyer is not recommended to Wenger buying Arshavin
Sandor Varga: The lawyer is not recommended to Wenger buying ArshavinaIzvestny agent Sandor Varga FIFA in an interview with "Rusfootball.info" told me that Gazzaev and Counsel at the time did not recommend mentor Arsenal's Arsene Wenger to buy Arshavin.
- In the beginning - the potential buyer to Liverpool from Saudi Arabia, which, as far as we know, you are representing in the negotiations with the Americans. Terms of candidates has narrowed - Chinese businessman, Kenny Huang and Syrian tycoon Yahya Kird officially withdrew from the "Trade". It seems that soon "Liverpool" will gain the same, the new owner?
- I can say that several meetings took place - Jillett itself has been flown to Riyadh (the capital of Saudi Arabia - Prim. AS), view the offer. What are its dimensions? Proposals have been made impressive. But the parties have agreed. Now I do not take direct part in the talks - but only helping his partner, now representing the interests of the potential buyer. So their last sentence Jillett called very serious.
- What stopped it take?
- That's it - Americans want more money. They have invested considerable funds into the club - and not going to leave Liverpool's worth.
- Meanwhile, nearing Oct. 6 - when the shareholders of the club to restructure the debt of 282 million pounds to the Royal Bank of Scotland. It seems that in such circumstances, Hicks and Jillett would cost to make concessions.
- Right. But the Americans - they will be in the game until the end. Although this situation hinders the team's great play. Roy (Hodgson) does not hide: all the guys much to worry about the future of the club. When surrounded by such chaos reigns, it's hard to do their work quietly. But Liverpool because of this whole story could not consolidate. Roy said he wanted to buy a good striker.
- The British press was even reported the name of the striker - Roman Pavlyuchenko. Is this true?
- Hardly. If the novel is really seriously interested in Liverpool, Rooy sure I would know my opinion. We regularly communicate with him almost every week, and he shares with me the plans of the club. However, the present composition meets all the requirements of a coach - he Hodgson calls it "balanced". During our last dialogue, he said: "Serious Shopping - these can be done only once the club there will be new owners. And spend tens of millions on the background of such debts is not realistic. However, we do not want to force the situation."
- Surprisingly restrained tone.
- Roy in general people are very calm. And the changes in his life, he reacts too pretty quiet. At one time he could become coach of Ukraine - I then had talks with the Ukrainian Football Federation (UFF) about his candidacy.
- Transfers to other continents - for the British this is unnatural.
- Agreed. And for the British unusually fluent in five languages - Roy is ready to move from English to any other.
- Speaking of Ukraine - as a reaction to the resignation Markevich, accompanied by accusations against the head of FFU Grigory Surkis in corruption?
- Myron I know from childhood. And I knew his father, Bogdan. I remember when Myron's just been appointed head coach of Ukraine, I told him: "Your father would be proud of you - not every kid who grew up in a small Lviv able to do this way. For some reason I thought he was in the national team for a long time. But as a result between Miron and Gregory came into conflict. I know both - it is not angels. But there is a team, and there is a great goal - the European Championship, where Ukraine will be represented accurately. For such a cost would sit at the negotiating table.
- Return to Liverpool. Participation in the negotiation takes only Jillett?
- Yes. But it is understandable - at Jillett share in the club more than Hicks. In addition to Jillett Liverpool - unfinished business. Once he imagined that he would do in the city of the Beatles' crazy for the benefit of a business project - first to invest money, and will soon begin to count the profit. But business in the American failed. Now, the only remains that getting rid of the cargo.
- The Arabs, too, certainly soar in the clouds - are counting on a story in Liverpool?
- No. The Arabs did not initially oriented toward crazy wages. Although call them fanatics who are willing to continually improve the amount of its proposal, too, not worth it. For example, a client of Saudi Arabia (recall: I've already officially in the negotiations can not imagine) set the final amount - more than he will not pay.
- What kind of money we talking about?
- The details do not want to go, but money is quite large. But Americans are still waiting - they still believe that they can get out of Liverpool not losers, and even the victors.
- Did they have to have a chance?
- Chances are, we must be fair, not great. Hard to believe that a month before the debt restructuring someone to offer a lot of money Hicks and Jillett. I am sure that my friends the Arabs - the best option. First, they have three generations suffer for the club - and it is very important for the British. And secondly, even the chief coach Hodgson does not hide its sympathy for these people is - he plans to impress the Saudis in Liverpool. And Roy - a man who can appreciate the tradition. He and his wife have lived 50 years together - and therefore knows that such devotion. The Saudis also very committed to Liverpool - they are practically on every match the team arrive. Businessmen-fans in Britain love, but competitors gain rich - to put it mildly, not very.
- This is why it is so contemptuous of the Uzbek shareholder Arsenal Alisher Usmanov in a club, not just allow him to acquire a controlling stake?
- Yes, it does not produce a large arena. But I would not say that Alisher just need the money in London. I myself have organized a deal between Usmanov and David Dean, to sell its stake in the club - so I know the reasons for Alisher.
- The business environment act oligarch is simple: Usmanov does not give rest laurels Abramovich, thundered throughout the world thanks to Chelsea.
- Probably. But I Alisher primarily bribed their knowledge about football. When we first saw it listed the events of the past eight years at Arsenal - I have such knowledge simply shocked. He's up to deal with Dean was sick for the club and went to the games - the "Highbury and the Emirates had two" Boxing "(vip-lozhi. - approx. AS). But the shareholders of the club do not like him much because of the Dean - David shortly before his departure from the club fell out with everyone. Attitudes towards Dinah immediately extrapolated to Alisher - that's why he have them in disgrace. Although I still strange that the Dean so treated - still in the progress of Arsenal's greatest merit of the names of David.
- Do not exaggerate?
- Not at all. It was Dean exercised operational control club, though formally the president is Peter Hill-Wood. And that Dean was invited to London Arsen Who.
- Who-whom?
- (Laughs) So in London the first time called Wenger, who came to conquer England from faraway Japan (to Arsenal Wenger has worked in the Japanese club Nagoya Grampus Eight. "- Note. AS). Arsen Who - say, Who is Arsene?
- From Wenger you, as you know, the special relationship.
- Yes, we are friends for a long time. Arsen - a wonderful man.
- You once told that aggressively tried to dissuade him buy Arshavin.
- It is. With Arshavin, incidentally, is related a funny story. Usually when me turn to advice about a particular issue, I write short. I remember calling Wenger: "Sandor, I want to hear your opinion about Arshavin," - and I'm already on the machine I write down "Ars, Ars, Ars" - say, Arsene, Arsenal, Arshavin. (Laughs.)
- So why do not the best way responded to Arshavin?
- (Laughs.) It's no secret. Arshavin - football is not ready to give a performance every game. And in England valued this quality - the ability, if you will, "keep the brand" in all matches. But both Arseny said not only me - the same thing he was told and Gazzaev, and Attorney ...
- Attorney? If memory serves, the Dutchman said: "Wenger will not spare, if acquire Arshavin.
- You remember, what the situation was with Arshavin - Zenit did not want to sell it, and he struggled Andrew England. Continuous talk about that impact on the team microclimate, so counsel was forced to speak in the press is. But in private conversation lawyer spoke quite differently. It's called coaching solidarity - when coaches at the expense of their clubs talk to each other the truth.
- It turns out, the current head coach of the lawyer once Wenger dissuaded from buying his captain?
- Not discouraged - just say to the truth. But the truth is that Arshavin from four games able to show magic in only one. And then - again, three inarticulate match.
- Yet Wenger nobody listened - and did things his own way.
- Exactly. Such Arsene (Laughs.) Although the game Arshavin recently, particularly in the match against Slovakia, I think, only confirmed the correctness of those who consulted Wenger.
- In conclusion - again about Liverpool. How do you think will end this saga?
- Jillett and Hicks definitely sell the club. As for the price issue, it all depends on the Americans. If you agree now - will get a lot of money. Then the Arabs, under certain circumstances would be bearish.
Andrew Sukhotin
http://www.rusfootball.info/rss/1146129016-shandor-varga-advokat-ne-rekomendoval-vengeru.html
Extremely dodgy translation ;D
Sandor Varga: The lawyer is not recommended to Wenger buying Arshavin
Sandor Varga: The lawyer is not recommended to Wenger buying ArshavinaIzvestny agent Sandor Varga FIFA in an interview with "Rusfootball.info" told me that Gazzaev and Counsel at the time did not recommend mentor Arsenal's Arsene Wenger to buy Arshavin.
- In the beginning - the potential buyer to Liverpool from Saudi Arabia, which, as far as we know, you are representing in the negotiations with the Americans. Terms of candidates has narrowed - Chinese businessman, Kenny Huang and Syrian tycoon Yahya Kird officially withdrew from the "Trade". It seems that soon "Liverpool" will gain the same, the new owner?
- I can say that several meetings took place - Jillett itself has been flown to Riyadh (the capital of Saudi Arabia - Prim. AS), view the offer. What are its dimensions? Proposals have been made impressive. But the parties have agreed. Now I do not take direct part in the talks - but only helping his partner, now representing the interests of the potential buyer. So their last sentence Jillett called very serious.
- What stopped it take?
- That's it - Americans want more money. They have invested considerable funds into the club - and not going to leave Liverpool's worth.
- Meanwhile, nearing Oct. 6 - when the shareholders of the club to restructure the debt of 282 million pounds to the Royal Bank of Scotland. It seems that in such circumstances, Hicks and Jillett would cost to make concessions.
- Right. But the Americans - they will be in the game until the end. Although this situation hinders the team's great play. Roy (Hodgson) does not hide: all the guys much to worry about the future of the club. When surrounded by such chaos reigns, it's hard to do their work quietly. But Liverpool because of this whole story could not consolidate. Roy said he wanted to buy a good striker.
- The British press was even reported the name of the striker - Roman Pavlyuchenko. Is this true?
- Hardly. If the novel is really seriously interested in Liverpool, Rooy sure I would know my opinion. We regularly communicate with him almost every week, and he shares with me the plans of the club. However, the present composition meets all the requirements of a coach - he Hodgson calls it "balanced". During our last dialogue, he said: "Serious Shopping - these can be done only once the club there will be new owners. And spend tens of millions on the background of such debts is not realistic. However, we do not want to force the situation."
- Surprisingly restrained tone.
- Roy in general people are very calm. And the changes in his life, he reacts too pretty quiet. At one time he could become coach of Ukraine - I then had talks with the Ukrainian Football Federation (UFF) about his candidacy.
- Transfers to other continents - for the British this is unnatural.
- Agreed. And for the British unusually fluent in five languages - Roy is ready to move from English to any other.
- Speaking of Ukraine - as a reaction to the resignation Markevich, accompanied by accusations against the head of FFU Grigory Surkis in corruption?
- Myron I know from childhood. And I knew his father, Bogdan. I remember when Myron's just been appointed head coach of Ukraine, I told him: "Your father would be proud of you - not every kid who grew up in a small Lviv able to do this way. For some reason I thought he was in the national team for a long time. But as a result between Miron and Gregory came into conflict. I know both - it is not angels. But there is a team, and there is a great goal - the European Championship, where Ukraine will be represented accurately. For such a cost would sit at the negotiating table.
- Return to Liverpool. Participation in the negotiation takes only Jillett?
- Yes. But it is understandable - at Jillett share in the club more than Hicks. In addition to Jillett Liverpool - unfinished business. Once he imagined that he would do in the city of the Beatles' crazy for the benefit of a business project - first to invest money, and will soon begin to count the profit. But business in the American failed. Now, the only remains that getting rid of the cargo.
- The Arabs, too, certainly soar in the clouds - are counting on a story in Liverpool?
- No. The Arabs did not initially oriented toward crazy wages. Although call them fanatics who are willing to continually improve the amount of its proposal, too, not worth it. For example, a client of Saudi Arabia (recall: I've already officially in the negotiations can not imagine) set the final amount - more than he will not pay.
- What kind of money we talking about?
- The details do not want to go, but money is quite large. But Americans are still waiting - they still believe that they can get out of Liverpool not losers, and even the victors.
- Did they have to have a chance?
- Chances are, we must be fair, not great. Hard to believe that a month before the debt restructuring someone to offer a lot of money Hicks and Jillett. I am sure that my friends the Arabs - the best option. First, they have three generations suffer for the club - and it is very important for the British. And secondly, even the chief coach Hodgson does not hide its sympathy for these people is - he plans to impress the Saudis in Liverpool. And Roy - a man who can appreciate the tradition. He and his wife have lived 50 years together - and therefore knows that such devotion. The Saudis also very committed to Liverpool - they are practically on every match the team arrive. Businessmen-fans in Britain love, but competitors gain rich - to put it mildly, not very.
- This is why it is so contemptuous of the Uzbek shareholder Arsenal Alisher Usmanov in a club, not just allow him to acquire a controlling stake?
- Yes, it does not produce a large arena. But I would not say that Alisher just need the money in London. I myself have organized a deal between Usmanov and David Dean, to sell its stake in the club - so I know the reasons for Alisher.
- The business environment act oligarch is simple: Usmanov does not give rest laurels Abramovich, thundered throughout the world thanks to Chelsea.
- Probably. But I Alisher primarily bribed their knowledge about football. When we first saw it listed the events of the past eight years at Arsenal - I have such knowledge simply shocked. He's up to deal with Dean was sick for the club and went to the games - the "Highbury and the Emirates had two" Boxing "(vip-lozhi. - approx. AS). But the shareholders of the club do not like him much because of the Dean - David shortly before his departure from the club fell out with everyone. Attitudes towards Dinah immediately extrapolated to Alisher - that's why he have them in disgrace. Although I still strange that the Dean so treated - still in the progress of Arsenal's greatest merit of the names of David.
- Do not exaggerate?
- Not at all. It was Dean exercised operational control club, though formally the president is Peter Hill-Wood. And that Dean was invited to London Arsen Who.
- Who-whom?
- (Laughs) So in London the first time called Wenger, who came to conquer England from faraway Japan (to Arsenal Wenger has worked in the Japanese club Nagoya Grampus Eight. "- Note. AS). Arsen Who - say, Who is Arsene?
- From Wenger you, as you know, the special relationship.
- Yes, we are friends for a long time. Arsen - a wonderful man.
- You once told that aggressively tried to dissuade him buy Arshavin.
- It is. With Arshavin, incidentally, is related a funny story. Usually when me turn to advice about a particular issue, I write short. I remember calling Wenger: "Sandor, I want to hear your opinion about Arshavin," - and I'm already on the machine I write down "Ars, Ars, Ars" - say, Arsene, Arsenal, Arshavin. (Laughs.)
- So why do not the best way responded to Arshavin?
- (Laughs.) It's no secret. Arshavin - football is not ready to give a performance every game. And in England valued this quality - the ability, if you will, "keep the brand" in all matches. But both Arseny said not only me - the same thing he was told and Gazzaev, and Attorney ...
- Attorney? If memory serves, the Dutchman said: "Wenger will not spare, if acquire Arshavin.
- You remember, what the situation was with Arshavin - Zenit did not want to sell it, and he struggled Andrew England. Continuous talk about that impact on the team microclimate, so counsel was forced to speak in the press is. But in private conversation lawyer spoke quite differently. It's called coaching solidarity - when coaches at the expense of their clubs talk to each other the truth.
- It turns out, the current head coach of the lawyer once Wenger dissuaded from buying his captain?
- Not discouraged - just say to the truth. But the truth is that Arshavin from four games able to show magic in only one. And then - again, three inarticulate match.
- Yet Wenger nobody listened - and did things his own way.
- Exactly. Such Arsene (Laughs.) Although the game Arshavin recently, particularly in the match against Slovakia, I think, only confirmed the correctness of those who consulted Wenger.
- In conclusion - again about Liverpool. How do you think will end this saga?
- Jillett and Hicks definitely sell the club. As for the price issue, it all depends on the Americans. If you agree now - will get a lot of money. Then the Arabs, under certain circumstances would be bearish.
Andrew Sukhotin
http://www.rusfootball.info/rss/1146129016-shandor-varga-advokat-ne-rekomendoval-vengeru.html
Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts
So could someone have a stab at what we think it says in a couple of lines?
regards
So could someone have a stab at what we think it says in a couple of lines?
regards
Re: Liverpool Board set to block G+H's mortgage attempts
As far as I can tell:
There is serious interest from Saudi;
They and Roy Hodgson enjoy a good deal of mutual respect;
The deal hasn't been done yet because of Hicks and Gillett's price demands - they still think they can come out of this with a good profit;
Not everyone agrees with that and there is a chance Hicks and Gillett could lose money by not doing a deal now;
They have little chance of restructuring before 6th October;
Gillett has a bigger stake in the club than Hicks [??] and has taken the lead in progressing negotiations.
As far as I can tell:
There is serious interest from Saudi;
They and Roy Hodgson enjoy a good deal of mutual respect;
The deal hasn't been done yet because of Hicks and Gillett's price demands - they still think they can come out of this with a good profit;
Not everyone agrees with that and there is a chance Hicks and Gillett could lose money by not doing a deal now;
They have little chance of restructuring before 6th October;
Gillett has a bigger stake in the club than Hicks [??] and has taken the lead in progressing negotiations.
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