LFC SOLD to NESV.

[spider-Neil]

Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=41783.msg1179136#msg1179136 date=1285075895]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41783.msg1179125#msg1179125 date=1285075354]
I want to know what I posted was in error?

* whoever pays the club has to buy the debt but H&G loan, correct? 300+ mil

* they have to start work on the stadium, of course the loan to start the stadium can be secured against the club but it is still a loan that has to be paid month on month. loan 300+ mil

* then there is an outlay for new players to make us competitive at the top of the table.

so you are looking at well over half a billion pounds before the new owners sees a 'penny' of profit.
is this or this this not correct?
[/quote]

This is correct. But as I said, the real depth of the club might be as little as 237mill pounds, and if you get away with that as a purching price (or even lower if RBS is willing to hand over the club for a small loss) then you have one of the strongest brands in the business for maybe as low as 200 mill pounds.

The stadium need to be financed over the clubs budget. But the yearly outlays should be well covered by increased income (or else there is no point is it?)

Bringing in players, or actually traint he ones we have to become good is a huge challenge with or wthout new owners and stadium. But no rich man can get that one right. It requires a football head to get that one.
[/quote]

ideally scenario;

* 6th comes and goes, G&H fail to come up with money to pay off loan

* RBS takes control of liverpool and sells at 'cost' G&H make bugger all profit, liverpool sold for less than 300m including G&H's loan

* the loan for the stadium is secured on liverpool itself 300m, the monthly repayments for the short term is taken care of by naming rights (for example 'the barclay's stadium')

* the reduction of the loan on the club when the club is bought (hopefully debt on the club will be less than 50m) this will mean more of the turnover going directly to players

* direct cost to new owners = 300M

that's an attractive propersition.

 

[doctor_mac]

Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41783.msg1179141#msg1179141 date=1285076250]
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=41783.msg1179136#msg1179136 date=1285075895]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41783.msg1179125#msg1179125 date=1285075354]
I want to know what I posted was in error?

* whoever pays the club has to buy the debt but H&G loan, correct? 300+ mil

* they have to start work on the stadium, of course the loan to start the stadium can be secured against the club but it is still a loan that has to be paid month on month. loan 300+ mil

* then there is an outlay for new players to make us competitive at the top of the table.

so you are looking at well over half a billion pounds before the new owners sees a 'penny' of profit.
is this or this this not correct?
[/quote]

This is correct. But as I said, the real depth of the club might be as little as 237mill pounds, and if you get away with that as a purching price (or even lower if RBS is willing to hand over the club for a small loss) then you have one of the strongest brands in the business for maybe as low as 200 mill pounds.

The stadium need to be financed over the clubs budget. But the yearly outlays should be well covered by increased income (or else there is no point is it?)

Bringing in players, or actually traint he ones we have to become good is a huge challenge with or wthout new owners and stadium. But no rich man can get that one right. It requires a football head to get that one.
[/quote]

ideally scenario;

* 6th comes and goes, G&H fail to come up with money to pay off loan

* RBS takes control of liverpool and sells at 'cost' G&H make bugger all profit, liverpool sold for less than 300m including G&H's loan

* the loan is for the stadium is secured on liverpool itself 300m but the monthly repayments for the short term is taken care of by naming right (for example 'the barclay's stadium')

* the reduction of the loan on the loan (hopefully this will be less than 50m) will mean more of the turnover going directly to players

* direct cost to new owners = 300M

that's an attractive propersition.
[/quote]

Share Liverpool could come into the equation at that sort of money.

 

[Insignificance]

Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=41783.msg1179167#msg1179167 date=1285079952]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41783.msg1179141#msg1179141 date=1285076250]
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=41783.msg1179136#msg1179136 date=1285075895]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41783.msg1179125#msg1179125 date=1285075354]
I want to know what I posted was in error?

* whoever pays the club has to buy the debt but H&G loan, correct? 300+ mil

* they have to start work on the stadium, of course the loan to start the stadium can be secured against the club but it is still a loan that has to be paid month on month. loan 300+ mil

* then there is an outlay for new players to make us competitive at the top of the table.

so you are looking at well over half a billion pounds before the new owners sees a 'penny' of profit.
is this or this this not correct?
[/quote]

This is correct. But as I said, the real depth of the club might be as little as 237mill pounds, and if you get away with that as a purching price (or even lower if RBS is willing to hand over the club for a small loss) then you have one of the strongest brands in the business for maybe as low as 200 mill pounds.

The stadium need to be financed over the clubs budget. But the yearly outlays should be well covered by increased income (or else there is no point is it?)

Bringing in players, or actually traint he ones we have to become good is a huge challenge with or wthout new owners and stadium. But no rich man can get that one right. It requires a football head to get that one.
[/quote]

ideally scenario;

* 6th comes and goes, G&H fail to come up with money to pay off loan

* RBS takes control of liverpool and sells at 'cost' G&H make bugger all profit, liverpool sold for less than 300m including G&H's loan

* the loan is for the stadium is secured on liverpool itself 300m but the monthly repayments for the short term is taken care of by naming right (for example 'the barclay's stadium')

* the reduction of the loan on the loan (hopefully this will be less than 50m) will mean more of the turnover going directly to players

* direct cost to new owners = 300M

that's an attractive propersition.
[/quote]

Share Liverpool could come into the equation at that sort of money.
[/quote]

I would peronally buy a share or two. Maybe even three. However the tought of 70000 angry emails to my inbox a monday morning just because Lucas played shit again doesnt sound appealing 8)

 

[Insignificance]

Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41783.msg1179141#msg1179141 date=1285076250]
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=41783.msg1179136#msg1179136 date=1285075895]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41783.msg1179125#msg1179125 date=1285075354]
I want to know what I posted was in error?

* whoever pays the club has to buy the debt but H&G loan, correct? 300+ mil

* they have to start work on the stadium, of course the loan to start the stadium can be secured against the club but it is still a loan that has to be paid month on month. loan 300+ mil

* then there is an outlay for new players to make us competitive at the top of the table.

so you are looking at well over half a billion pounds before the new owners sees a 'penny' of profit.
is this or this this not correct?
[/quote]

This is correct. But as I said, the real depth of the club might be as little as 237mill pounds, and if you get away with that as a purching price (or even lower if RBS is willing to hand over the club for a small loss) then you have one of the strongest brands in the business for maybe as low as 200 mill pounds.

The stadium need to be financed over the clubs budget. But the yearly outlays should be well covered by increased income (or else there is no point is it?)

Bringing in players, or actually traint he ones we have to become good is a huge challenge with or wthout new owners and stadium. But no rich man can get that one right. It requires a football head to get that one.
[/quote]

ideally scenario;

* 6th comes and goes, G&H fail to come up with money to pay off loan

* RBS takes control of liverpool and sells at 'cost' G&H make bugger all profit, liverpool sold for less than 300m including G&H's loan

* the loan for the stadium is secured on liverpool itself 300m, the monthly repayments for the short term is taken care of by naming rights (for example 'the barclay's stadium')

* the reduction of the loan on the club when the club is bought (hopefully debt on the club will be less than 50m) this will mean more of the turnover going directly to players

* direct cost to new owners = 300M

that's an attractive propersition.
[/quote]

And when you concider that we are actually turning over good money these days this start sound attractive. We are ahead of Real Madrid in replicas. We have increased sponsorbudget. We have for now lost the CL money but if we get back there w can run a profitable little business 🙂

 

[localny]

Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

Maddock might be playing to the crowd here, but it's nice reading..

[size=12pt]Liverpool fans are finally taking their club back - and RBS could be next on the hitlist[/size]

By all accounts, the computer systems at GSO Capital Partners went into meltdown at the weekend, and were out of action for some time.

This may not be particularly interesting to you, until you learn that GSO is the credit-focused subsidiary of Blackstone Partners, one of the world’s largest private equity firms.

Still not got it? Blackstone/GSO were one of the companies who had been in talks with Tom Hicks over potential refinancing of the debt placed on his and George Gillett’s purchase of Liverpool.

When supporters discovered the link at the weekend, they bombarded GSO with thousands and thousands of emails – estimates suggest even tens of thousands - making clear their passionate opposition to any deal which would sustain the American regime at Anfield.
Quantcast

GSO were swift to distance themselves from the Yanks, and in a conversation yesterday between one of their most senior executives and a Liverpool fans’ group, it was confirmed that the feelings of the supporters played a significant part in the refusal to deal with Hicks.

This is massively significant, because it is the first time anyone remotely related to the sale of Liverpool Football Club has acknowledged what we have always known about the game in this country – that clubs ultimately belong to their fans.

Businessmen can buy clubs; the greatest names in world football like Liverpool and Manchester United can be swept up by the leveraged buy-out merchants that represent capitalism’s worst excesses, but ultimately, they will be held to account by their fans, who are the moral owners.

For Hicks and Gillett, the day of reckoning has arrived. Since they bought the club more than three years ago, they have ridden roughshod over the feelings of the people to whom LFC mean more than a matter of life and death.

They have been brazen in their greed, arrogant in their disregard. And maybe, just maybe, they are about to pay for that.

Hicks has been talking to dozens of financial institutions because he is desperate to refinance, given that he will effectively lose Liverpool – and potentially at a big loss on his original investment – if he doesn’t.

His partner Gillett has already run up the white flag after defaulting on loans in the U.S. which used his stake in Liverpool as collateral. His financial empire is ailing, and experts suggest the house of cards is ready to collapse. That leaves Hicks carrying the can.

The Texan’s own empire is not exactly in rude health, and he would dearly love to make a big profit on his Anfield investment to bale it out. Hence his frenzied efforts in recent weeks to refinance.

But guess what. Every bank he has turned to has been bombarded with protests from supporters, pointing out the consequences of lending money to the Americans.

I have had direct dealings with many, many groups of fans, and they are deadly serious about their intent. If any institution allows Hicks to hold on to Liverpool any longer, then they can expect a shitstorm. A perfect one.

It is no idle threat, because the many millions of Liverpool fans out there carry a heavy economic weight. Just ask News International. The boycott of The Lying Rag newspaper after their criminal reporting at Hillsborough destroyed that paper’s sales on Merseyside.

It is something Hicks and Gillett hadn’t considered when they took over at Anfield, they thought they were just getting a sports franchise with vast profit potential.

Now, the fans they have abused and insulted for the past three years could decide their fate, and there is a delicious irony in that.

In October, RBS must decide whether to call in the loans they have extended to the Americans. If they do, and if Hicks can’t find alternative finance, then he will almost certainly have to accept a sale of Liverpool at a big loss.

There is still a prospect of RBS refinancing Hicks and Gillett themselves, because they have made vast profits on the back of Liverpool fans - £20million alone in August - and will no doubt not want to give those up lightly.

But they will be foolish to do so, because they could lose thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands of accounts, (I would add that mine will be one of them, but they’ll probably be glad of that!).

If they think they had negative publicity from the government bail-out and their former Chief Executive’s disgusting greed, then they really have seen nothing yet.

The same goes for the other dozen or so institutions Hicks is courting, because the Liverpool fans are onto them.

I have mentioned several times here the work of such fans groups as KopFaithful in this column, who have orchestrated an impassioned – but reasonable – protest against anyone who deals with the Americans.

They have been backed by fans’ websites such as The Liverpool Way, Red and White Kop, Anfield Online and Anfield Road (to name but a few of the many, many brilliant sites out there), who have all inspired many thousands of normal, everyday fans – people like you and me – to register the fact that they care, and their voice is important.

And the momentum is growing all the time. There is already a boycott RBS campaign underway, which will see large numbers of that banks’ customers withdraw their accounts, and boycott associated companies such as Direct Line and Churchills. It can be found here , and it is the tip of the iceberg as far as fans are concerned.

Another group, the Spirit of Shankly which has a widespread following, is organising direct protest at the upcoming games at Anfield against Sunderland and Blackpool. Visit their website for details.

There are other, equally important protests planned, by other, equally important groups, but the point is, the fans are all united (if you’ll forgive the phrase) on this issue now, and that spells bad news for Hicks and Gillett.

There is an email template doing the rounds at the moment which Liverpool fans can copy and sign, and send on to the RBS, as well targeting as any other bank thinking of dealing with the Americans. You can find it here , among other places, and it perhaps most pertinently asks the bank to do the decent thing on behalf of the fans, after taking so much of their money in the past three years.

If the fans’ protests aren’t enough, then there is one final consideration the RBS and any other bank considering a loan should take into account.

The board at Liverpool Football Club, which has a ruling majority of the people who actually run the club day to day, have made extremely clear that they do not agree with any attempt to refinance Hicks and Gillett.

So the question is, how can any bank or any financial institution justify loaning money to a company where even the people running that company are saying not to?

Given that the RBS is owned by us, I’d say the shareholders will be asking quite a few questions if that happens.


Read more: http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/columnists/david-maddock/David-Maddock-column-As-GSO-Capital-Partners-found-out-Liverpool-fans-are-finally-taking-their-club-back-and-RBS-could-be-next-on-the-hitlist-article585379.html##ixzz10BQ5inVv
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[RolandG]

Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

I'd be royally chuffed if these American capitalists walkaway with a heavy loss from which they never recover.

That would be justice!

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=Hansern link=topic=41783.msg1178922#msg1178922 date=1285059358]
Apperantly Schwarzman at Blackstone recived 7.000 emails over the weekend from Liverpool fans, so I'm guessing it had some effect. We may not like SOS and RAWK, but they deserve credit for doing things like this.

I recived an email from a friend on sunday, and forwaded it. That was from Kopfaithful.
[/quote]

But according to the papers, Blackstone bombed Hicks off before the story about them financing him broke. So I don't think the e-mails had any effect if that's true.

 

[Fabio]

Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

I miss the days when this was like 8 threads cluttering up the FF

crappy clean loving mods

 

[spider-Neil]

Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=41783.msg1179301#msg1179301 date=1285088362]
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=41783.msg1178922#msg1178922 date=1285059358]
Apperantly Schwarzman at Blackstone recived 7.000 emails over the weekend from Liverpool fans, so I'm guessing it had some effect. We may not like SOS and RAWK, but they deserve credit for doing things like this.

I recived an email from a friend on sunday, and forwaded it. That was from Kopfaithful.
[/quote]

But according to the papers, Blackstone bombed Hicks off before the story about them financing him broke. So I don't think the e-mails had any effect if that's true.
[/quote]

surely the emails brought the deal to the attention of the papers?

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41783.msg1179312#msg1179312 date=1285088660]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=41783.msg1179301#msg1179301 date=1285088362]
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=41783.msg1178922#msg1178922 date=1285059358]
Apperantly Schwarzman at Blackstone recived 7.000 emails over the weekend from Liverpool fans, so I'm guessing it had some effect. We may not like SOS and RAWK, but they deserve credit for doing things like this.

I recived an email from a friend on sunday, and forwaded it. That was from Kopfaithful.
[/quote]

But according to the papers, Blackstone bombed Hicks off before the story about them financing him broke. So I don't think the e-mails had any effect if that's true.
[/quote]

surely the emails brought the deal to the attention of the papers?
[/quote]

Eh?

 

[Squiggles]

Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

I do support SOS and whoever in their bid to stop getting the club refinanced. I would even have sent an email myself.

But like Sheik says, I doubt emotional fans were the reason behind the decision. I suspect it would have been pure, cold-hearted numbers and some risk/reward assessment, leaving the fans to naively pat themselves on the back and feel important.

 

[Rosco]

Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=Brendan link=topic=41783.msg1178995#msg1178995 date=1285063636]
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=41783.msg1178978#msg1178978 date=1285061824]
I dont really know much about SOS, apart from what I read here (mostly negative), but the way I look at it is, that at least they are trying to do something positive, other than ranting from the comfort of a chair
[/quote]

Exactly. They deserve more respect for at least *trying* to mobilise support and express the feelings of Liverpool fans.
[/quote]

In the same way that Lucas deserves more respect for at least *trying* to be a footballer.

 

[Fabio]

Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=41783.msg1179328#msg1179328 date=1285089348]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=41783.msg1178995#msg1178995 date=1285063636]
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=41783.msg1178978#msg1178978 date=1285061824]
I dont really know much about SOS, apart from what I read here (mostly negative), but the way I look at it is, that at least they are trying to do something positive, other than ranting from the comfort of a chair
[/quote]

Exactly. They deserve more respect for at least *trying* to mobilise support and express the feelings of Liverpool fans.
[/quote]

In the same way that Lucas deserves more respect for at least *trying* to be a footballer.
[/quote]

cue "he tries to be a cunt and succeeds"

 

[localny]

Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=41783.msg1179328#msg1179328 date=1285089348]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=41783.msg1178995#msg1178995 date=1285063636]
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=41783.msg1178978#msg1178978 date=1285061824]
I dont really know much about SOS, apart from what I read here (mostly negative), but the way I look at it is, that at least they are trying to do something positive, other than ranting from the comfort of a chair
[/quote]

Exactly. They deserve more respect for at least *trying* to mobilise support and express the feelings of Liverpool fans.
[/quote]

In the same way that Lucas deserves more respect for at least *trying* to be a footballer.
[/quote]

oof, harsh!

 

[SaintGeorge67]

Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

I don't really mind sos doing this, as it's more than I'm doing.

It's the having to blindly follow them on everything they say as they as the true voice of the fans that annoys me.

In this case however, carry on.

 

[spider-Neil]

Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=41783.msg1179313#msg1179313 date=1285088719]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41783.msg1179312#msg1179312 date=1285088660]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=41783.msg1179301#msg1179301 date=1285088362]
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=41783.msg1178922#msg1178922 date=1285059358]
Apperantly Schwarzman at Blackstone recived 7.000 emails over the weekend from Liverpool fans, so I'm guessing it had some effect. We may not like SOS and RAWK, but they deserve credit for doing things like this.

I recived an email from a friend on sunday, and forwaded it. That was from Kopfaithful.
[/quote]

But according to the papers, Blackstone bombed Hicks off before the story about them financing him broke. So I don't think the e-mails had any effect if that's true.
[/quote]

surely the emails brought the deal to the attention of the papers?
[/quote]

Eh?
[/quote]

you're saying the emails had nothing to do with blackstone pulling out as it was more the media catching wind of the potential deal, isn't it possible the media caught wind of the blackstone deal via news the thousands of emails stories?

 

[localny]

Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

Blackstone are saying they said no in August, so the campaign had nothing to do with the deal being cancelled, bar deterring future funders, and making BStone feel delighted they said no..

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41783.msg1179338#msg1179338 date=1285089594]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=41783.msg1179313#msg1179313 date=1285088719]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41783.msg1179312#msg1179312 date=1285088660]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=41783.msg1179301#msg1179301 date=1285088362]
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=41783.msg1178922#msg1178922 date=1285059358]
Apperantly Schwarzman at Blackstone recived 7.000 emails over the weekend from Liverpool fans, so I'm guessing it had some effect. We may not like SOS and RAWK, but they deserve credit for doing things like this.

I recived an email from a friend on sunday, and forwaded it. That was from Kopfaithful.
[/quote]

But according to the papers, Blackstone bombed Hicks off before the story about them financing him broke. So I don't think the e-mails had any effect if that's true.
[/quote]

surely the emails brought the deal to the attention of the papers?
[/quote]

Eh?
[/quote]

you're saying the emails had nothing to do with blackstone pulling out as it was more the media catching wind of the potential deal, isn't it possible the media caught wind of the blackstone deal via news the thousands of emails stories?
[/quote]

Last Saturday the papers ran the "Hicks to get refinancing" story.
Cue loads of e-mails sent last Saturday.
Yesterday papers say "Actually, Blackstone refused the finance ages ago".

Therefore, the decision had already been made before the gnashing of teeth.

 

[Fabio]

Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=41783.msg1179367#msg1179367 date=1285090641]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41783.msg1179338#msg1179338 date=1285089594]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=41783.msg1179313#msg1179313 date=1285088719]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41783.msg1179312#msg1179312 date=1285088660]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=41783.msg1179301#msg1179301 date=1285088362]
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=41783.msg1178922#msg1178922 date=1285059358]
Apperantly Schwarzman at Blackstone recived 7.000 emails over the weekend from Liverpool fans, so I'm guessing it had some effect. We may not like SOS and RAWK, but they deserve credit for doing things like this.

I recived an email from a friend on sunday, and forwaded it. That was from Kopfaithful.
[/quote]

But according to the papers, Blackstone bombed Hicks off before the story about them financing him broke. So I don't think the e-mails had any effect if that's true.
[/quote]

surely the emails brought the deal to the attention of the papers?
[/quote]

Eh?
[/quote]

you're saying the emails had nothing to do with blackstone pulling out as it was more the media catching wind of the potential deal, isn't it possible the media caught wind of the blackstone deal via news the thousands of emails stories?
[/quote]

Last Saturday the papers ran the "Hicks to get refinancing" story.
Cue loads of e-mails sent last Saturday.
Yesterday papers say "Actually, Blackstone refused the finance ages ago".

Therefore, the decision had already been made before the gnashing of teeth.

[/quote]

victory for SOS then. They rejected them ages ago due to the fear of this backlash

or so it shall be spun

 

[Judge Jules]

Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=peterhague link=topic=41783.msg1179123#msg1179123 date=1285074919]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=41783.msg1179035#msg1179035 date=1285066899]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41783.msg1178986#msg1178986 date=1285062288]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=41783.msg1178970#msg1178970 date=1285061554]
I don't see the club being totally "broken" but we could certainly be set back a long way IF things were to go badly.

This is a point LFC was always going to get to when Sir John Smith stepped down from the chairmanship and wasn't adequately replaced. The inadequacies of decades are finally being dealt with and that was always going to be a painful process, but at the same time a necessary one. It's a nervous moment, but also one which is full of potential. When you walk through a storm, and all that.
[/quote]

the way I see it is, if hicks manages to get refinance then I can't see the club being sold anytime soon and certainly not by 2012 he is predicting as the cost of buying out hicks a minimum of 300m (the cost of the loan plus hick's profit) plus the construction of the stadium, plus the purchase of players to make us competitive.

you are looking at close to a billion with no possibility of making a profit in the near future. seriously, who is going to buy liverpool off hicks?


[/quote]

Sorry, neil, but this is confused and faintly hysterical. For one thing Hicks' options for refinancing - to whatever extent they genuinely existed, which is dubious anyway - are rapidly running out. For another the supposed new players and the "spade in the ground" would come out of the refinance money (were Hicks to achieve that after all), not get added to it.
[/quote]


i dunno, maybe a little hysteria is called for at this stage. if i remember right, when me and others were up in arms months ago over the yanks' £600m valuation, you were the one serenely insisting that that was a perfectly reasonable and attractive price - i think you even provided evidence from forbes magazine to bolster this insane valuaton.

well i think it's safe to assume you were wrong about that.
[/quote]

You don't remember "serenely" right at all. What I actually said, and all I actually said, was that the valuation couldn't reasonably be described as insane when Forbes.com said the club was one of only 5 in the whole of football which are worth over a billion (they have now revalued LFC downwards unfortunately). I was far from "serene" about any of it, just adding a dose of cold fact to the debate to balance against your preference for a Private Frazer "We're doomed" imitation.

 

[peterhague]

Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=41783.msg1179392#msg1179392 date=1285091847]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=41783.msg1179123#msg1179123 date=1285074919]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=41783.msg1179035#msg1179035 date=1285066899]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41783.msg1178986#msg1178986 date=1285062288]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=41783.msg1178970#msg1178970 date=1285061554]
I don't see the club being totally "broken" but we could certainly be set back a long way IF things were to go badly.

This is a point LFC was always going to get to when Sir John Smith stepped down from the chairmanship and wasn't adequately replaced. The inadequacies of decades are finally being dealt with and that was always going to be a painful process, but at the same time a necessary one. It's a nervous moment, but also one which is full of potential. When you walk through a storm, and all that.
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the way I see it is, if hicks manages to get refinance then I can't see the club being sold anytime soon and certainly not by 2012 he is predicting as the cost of buying out hicks a minimum of 300m (the cost of the loan plus hick's profit) plus the construction of the stadium, plus the purchase of players to make us competitive.

you are looking at close to a billion with no possibility of making a profit in the near future. seriously, who is going to buy liverpool off hicks?


[/quote]

Sorry, neil, but this is confused and faintly hysterical. For one thing Hicks' options for refinancing - to whatever extent they genuinely existed, which is dubious anyway - are rapidly running out. For another the supposed new players and the "spade in the ground" would come out of the refinance money (were Hicks to achieve that after all), not get added to it.
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i dunno, maybe a little hysteria is called for at this stage. if i remember right, when me and others were up in arms months ago over the yanks' £600m valuation, you were the one serenely insisting that that was a perfectly reasonable and attractive price - i think you even provided evidence from forbes magazine to bolster this insane valuaton.

well i think it's safe to assume you were wrong about that.
[/quote]

You don't remember "serenely" right at all. What I actually said, and all I actually said, was that the valuation couldn't reasonably be described as insane when Forbes.com said the club was one of only 5 in the whole of football which are worth over a billion (they have now revalued LFC downwards unfortunately). I was far from "serene" about any of it, just adding a dose of cold fact to the debate to balance against your preference for a Private Frazer "We're doomed" imitation.
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they've revalued us downwards now have they? what a fucking shock!

some of us could've predicted that months ago. anyway i suppose i look even more pathetic for bringing up a months-old disagreement so i'll stop there.

 

[Hansern]

Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

According to KopFaithful they talked to a executive director at GSO today, and he said that the emails sent this weekend was one of the reasons they turned Hicks down.

Hicks had given the impression that this deal was in the bag, and he claimed so last week aswell.

So, I think it had some effect Sheik. This is from Dave Usher, and he is usually on the money.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

Fair doos if true.

 

[Jack D Rips]

Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

I sent an email and Im not ashamed of it. I felt it was something to do rather that sit on my arse running down what others are trying to do . Ok so maybe the email did or did not have an effect, but one thing that seems to be clear is that thousands of them were sent.

If someone else wants to organise a protest against those two cunts well fair fucking play to them as well. I for one will applaud their efforts.

 

[ragehard]

Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

yea i emailed rafa to come out and criticise the board. i'm sure it was my e mail that made all the difference. yea my head is huge.

ok then sos how about you all e-mail rbs and ask them to handover the club to fan ownership.

one word - deluded!

 

[Asbo]

Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

You underestimate people power Rage, it was people power thet led to the fall of communism in Eastern Europe!

If they can get rid of the commies WE can get rid of the fucking Yanks!

 

[ragehard]

Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=Asbo link=topic=41783.msg1179448#msg1179448 date=1285094479]
You underestimate people power Rage, it was people power thet led to the fall of communism in Eastern Europe!

If they can get rid of the commies WE can get rid of the fucking Yanks!
[/quote]

i was raised in a socialist family. i know all about people power and where and how it is best used.

if these sos folk really think they influenced this they should be concentrating on rbs right now instead of patting themselves on the back,

it is absolute nonsense to believe that the prospect of fans objecting via e-mails had an impact with a heartless american investment bank who probably have far more contentious investments like propping up dictators in their portfolio.

 

[Jack D Rips]

Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

So enlighten us Rage . What have you done in an effort to get rid of the Yanks. You've suggested a walkout I think, provided Kenny takes the lead.

Lets face it like you've done fucking nothing. Just sat on your fat socialist arse!

 

[ragehard]

Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=41783.msg1179458#msg1179458 date=1285095078]
So enlighten us Rage . What have you done in an effort to get rid of the Yanks. You've suggested a walkout I think, provided Kenny takes the lead.

Lets face it like you've done fucking nothing. Just sat on your fat socialist arse!
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my seat sits empty.

i won't go back until the owners have gone or until there is an arranged walkout.

walking around doing stupid marches is fine if you want to let off steam. sending e-mails is fine if you want to make yourself feel better but neither is effective.

the only thing that will make a difference is a mass walkout. the only way we'll ever see a mass walkout is if someone like kenny leads it. sos wouldn't support that because they'd have to make a sacrifice hence their limp actions.

what have you done?

 

[Jack D Rips]

Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

Absolutely fuck all is what I've done. Thats why I am loathe to criticise those who are prepared to do something.