LFC SOLD to NESV.

[ILD]

Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

I'v seen the 6th, 11th and now 15th as D-Day.

Anyone know for definate?

 

[Molbystwin]

Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=41783.msg1181176#msg1181176 date=1285257546]
Not a dig at all, Molby.
[/quote]

No worries...


*throws sardine at Avemenon*

 

[Y1]

Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=41783.msg1181177#msg1181177 date=1285257613]
[quote author=Y1 link=topic=41783.msg1181162#msg1181162 date=1285255673]
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=41783.msg1181159#msg1181159 date=1285255391]
[quote author=Y1 link=topic=41783.msg1181156#msg1181156 date=1285255177]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=41783.msg1181151#msg1181151 date=1285254642]
Fucking hell, how many accountants have we got on this site?
[/quote]





have mercy

accountants need football to give them excitement & meaning in life!
[/quote]

I'd forgotten about you.

So that's you, Jack, Portlly, Vlads?, crump?.

I didnt figure Molby for a physicist though.

I know Ross is in the sad world of law, like me.

Or at least I was.

Now I'm in the sad world of Jeremy Kyle.
[/quote]

Guilty as charged

erm since I am not following UK personality, who in the world is JK?


as to the sauce, it is Whore Chester Shy Er lah
[/quote]

The UK Jerry Springer.
[/quote]

Nvm, non he wiser...

 

[Molbystwin]

Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=RMA link=topic=41783.msg1181178#msg1181178 date=1285257673]
Sorry cant get my head around this. In the end are we profitable or not? (without interest payments taken into account)
[/quote]

sort of... but you need to bear in mind that players devalue over time so.... no not really.

Or not much perhaps...probably not.

The interest payments however are to quote the chairman "fucking us in the nostrils", so that mean even if we are sort of not making a profit after the interest and stuff we definitely are making a loss... a big fat fuck off loss... and we might be doing things on the cheap for a bit till we can sort it out.

 

[Judge Jules]

Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=41783.msg1181159#msg1181159 date=1285255391]
[quote author=Y1 link=topic=41783.msg1181156#msg1181156 date=1285255177]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=41783.msg1181151#msg1181151 date=1285254642]
Fucking hell, how many accountants have we got on this site?
[/quote]



have mercy

accountants need football to give them excitement & meaning in life!
[/quote]

I'd forgotten about you.

So that's you, Jack, Portlly, Vlads?, crump?.

I didnt figure Molby for a physicist though.

I know Ross is in the sad world of law, like me.

Or at least I was.

Now I'm in the sad world of Jeremy Kyle.
[/quote]

As a company secretary I had to pass exams in both law AND accounting. I've barely recovered from the boredom even now, nearly 20 years after qualifying.

 

[Woland]

Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

We should have a wagecap, f'real.

Imagine that... Stevie, Carra, Nando... you know the way you love the club and everything and want to stay here forever.... well as it turns out you're actually killing the whole thing. Now, it wasn't your fault, but we've kinda been overpaying you, so would you be interested in taking a pay cut... Say, how does 50k a week sound? It's still quite a lot isn't it lads?

...well at least we'd have three nice new parking spaces.

 

[RMA]

Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=Molbystwin link=topic=41783.msg1181184#msg1181184 date=1285258168]
[quote author=RMA link=topic=41783.msg1181178#msg1181178 date=1285257673]
Sorry cant get my head around this. In the end are we profitable or not? (without interest payments taken into account)
[/quote]

sort of... but you need to bear in mind that players devalue over time so.... no not really.

Or not much perhaps...probably not.

The interest payments however are to quote the chairman "fucking us in the nostrils", so that mean even if we are sort of not making a profit after the interest and stuff we definitely are making a loss... a big fat fuck off loss... and we might be doing things on the cheap for a bit till we can sort it out.
[/quote]

Thanks for clearing that up...I think!

Personally i still think RBS will refinance/extend the option if they dont find a suitable buyer. They are making a killing on interest payments from us.

 

[Molbystwin]

Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=crump link=topic=41783.msg1181187#msg1181187 date=1285258641]
We should have a wagecap, f'real.

Imagine that... Stevie, Carra, Nando... you know the way you love the club and everything and want to stay here forever.... well as it turns out you're actually killing the whole thing. Now, it wasn't your fault, but we've kinda been overpaying you, so would you be interested in taking a pay cut... Say, how does 50k a week sound? It's still quite a lot isn't it lads?

...well at least we'd have three nice new parking spaces.
[/quote]

When the wage cap was in place all them years ago the clubs did exploit the players but their is an argument to be made for its re-introduction the money earned now by the really top players is extraordinary. Trouble is is that it is illegal and would never work, even though it would probably be in the interests of the game.

 

[Fabio]

Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

This is boring

You are all boring

*goes to play fifa*

 

[Woland]

Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

In our case, if you take away the interest, you've got a club charging top dollar for tickets, sold out, always near the top of the league, always challenging for Europe, more often than not in the CL and even still hardly anything you'd call a decent profit. No rainy day money. The business model has just been dragged along by prima donna wage demands and people can moan about all this other stuff... TV rights... debt... corporate facilities... but in the past twenty years whenever any of the major clubs or leagues have been given any kind of cash injection it's all gone straight into the arse pocket of the players.

 

[Vlads Quiff]

Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=41783.msg1181159#msg1181159 date=1285255391]
[quote author=Y1 link=topic=41783.msg1181156#msg1181156 date=1285255177]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=41783.msg1181151#msg1181151 date=1285254642]
Fucking hell, how many accountants have we got on this site?
[/quote]



have mercy

accountants need football to give them excitement & meaning in life!
[/quote]

I'd forgotten about you.

So that's you, Jack, Portlly, Vlads?, crump?.

I didnt figure Molby for a physicist though.

I know Ross is in the sad world of law, like me.

Or at least I was.

Now I'm in the sad world of Jeremy Kyle.
[/quote]

Err no I don't think so Avvy

regards

 

[RMA]

Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=crump link=topic=41783.msg1181194#msg1181194 date=1285259433]
In our case, if you take away the interest, you've got a club charging top dollar for tickets, sold out, always near the top of the league, always challenging for Europe, more often than not in the CL and even still hardly anything you'd call a decent profit. No rainy day money. The business model has just been dragged along by prima donna wage demands and people can moan about all this other stuff... TV rights... debt... corporate facilities... but in the past twenty years whenever any of the major clubs or leagues have been given any kind of cash injection it's all gone straight into the arse pocket of the players.
[/quote]

Totally agree with you Crump, but i think that the commercial team (Ian Ayre in particular) has done and is doing a fair bit in turning us into a proper commercial brand.

 

[RMA]

Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

Some more from the FT

Liverpool’s bank lenders may be willing to extend their loans to the club but only for a short period to allow time for it to find a buyer, people close to the situation say.
With owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett struggling to put together a refinancing of the club’s £280m debts owed to Royal Bank of Scotland and Wachovia, Christian Purslow, managing director, said on Wednesday that a small number of parties were carrying out due diligence.

But he added that Liverpool’s independent directors would continue to vote against refinancing plans put forward by the owners. In an interview on Liverpool’s website, Mr Purslow said to refinance the club’s debts against assets would require board approval “and the other members of the board have made it clear that’s not what we want to see happenâ€.
He added that refinancing was “very unlikelyâ€.

The US owners were outvoted by the three independent directors – Mr Purslow, chairman Martin Broughton and commercial director Ian Ayre – when they put forward debt refinancing proposals in June.

Last week, Mr Hicks again put forward a refinancing plan, which appears to have been undermined by the withdrawal of GSO Capital Partners, the credit arm of US private equity company Blackstone.

One person familiar with the process said the owners’ price tag of £600m-£800m had put off bidders.
If a buyer is not found before mid-October, among the options is a short extension of the loan to find a buyer, provided there was a “clear plan to resolve the question of ownership and the financial stability†of the club, said one person familiar with the situation.

There would also probably be more severe conditions imposed on the loan.

Mr Purslow said too high a proportion of the club’s revenues and profits was servicing loans, interest costs and bank charges. “Can we afford to meet them? Just about,†he said.
He said Liverpool was “not going bust†and its sale would reduce or wipe out its debts and render it highly profitable.

 

[Woland]

Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=RMA link=topic=41783.msg1181197#msg1181197 date=1285259932]
[quote author=crump link=topic=41783.msg1181194#msg1181194 date=1285259433]
In our case, if you take away the interest, you've got a club charging top dollar for tickets, sold out, always near the top of the league, always challenging for Europe, more often than not in the CL and even still hardly anything you'd call a decent profit. No rainy day money. The business model has just been dragged along by prima donna wage demands and people can moan about all this other stuff... TV rights... debt... corporate facilities... but in the past twenty years whenever any of the major clubs or leagues have been given any kind of cash injection it's all gone straight into the arse pocket of the players.
[/quote]

Totally agree with you Crump, but i think that the commercial team (Ian Ayre in particular) has done and is doing a fair bit in turning us into a proper commercial brand.
[/quote]

I know that... but the proceeds will end up where? Inter made a loss of 650m Euros over the past four years. That's what winning the CL personally cost Moratti. If you think about it too long it makes you want to go and watch Marine instead.

 

[Judge Jules]

Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=RMA link=topic=41783.msg1181198#msg1181198 date=1285260027]
Some more from the FT

Liverpool’s bank lenders may be willing to extend their loans to the club but only for a short period to allow time for it to find a buyer, people close to the situation say.
With owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett struggling to put together a refinancing of the club’s £280m debts owed to Royal Bank of Scotland and Wachovia, Christian Purslow, managing director, said on Wednesday that a small number of parties were carrying out due diligence.

But he added that Liverpool’s independent directors would continue to vote against refinancing plans put forward by the owners. In an interview on Liverpool’s website, Mr Purslow said to refinance the club’s debts against assets would require board approval “and the other members of the board have made it clear that’s not what we want to see happenâ€.
He added that refinancing was “very unlikelyâ€.

The US owners were outvoted by the three independent directors – Mr Purslow, chairman Martin Broughton and commercial director Ian Ayre – when they put forward debt refinancing proposals in June.

Last week, Mr Hicks again put forward a refinancing plan, which appears to have been undermined by the withdrawal of GSO Capital Partners, the credit arm of US private equity company Blackstone.

One person familiar with the process said the owners’ price tag of £600m-£800m had put off bidders.
If a buyer is not found before mid-October, among the options is a short extension of the loan to find a buyer, provided there was a “clear plan to resolve the question of ownership and the financial stability†of the club, said one person familiar with the situation.

There would also probably be more severe conditions imposed on the loan.

Mr Purslow said too high a proportion of the club’s revenues and profits was servicing loans, interest costs and bank charges. “Can we afford to meet them? Just about,†he said.
He said Liverpool was “not going bust†and its sale would reduce or wipe out its debts and render it highly profitable.

[/quote]

"One person familiar with the situation" probably = "one hack who needs to fill column space".

 

[Delinquent]

Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

I certainly wouldn't put it past RBS to extend the deadline again. Although it's quite obvious that any potential buyer would be foolish to show his cards until the deadline is up anyway.

 

[Avmenon]

Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=41783.msg1181186#msg1181186 date=1285258402]
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=41783.msg1181159#msg1181159 date=1285255391]
[quote author=Y1 link=topic=41783.msg1181156#msg1181156 date=1285255177]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=41783.msg1181151#msg1181151 date=1285254642]
Fucking hell, how many accountants have we got on this site?
[/quote]



have mercy

accountants need football to give them excitement & meaning in life!
[/quote]

I'd forgotten about you.

So that's you, Jack, Portlly, Vlads?, crump?.

I didnt figure Molby for a physicist though.

I know Ross is in the sad world of law, like me.

Or at least I was.

Now I'm in the sad world of Jeremy Kyle.
[/quote]

As a company secretary I had to pass exams in both law AND accounting. I've barely recovered from the boredom even now, nearly 20 years after qualifying.
[/quote]

I didnt you know you're a company secretary.

I thought you studied languages?

 

[Avmenon]

Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=Y1 link=topic=41783.msg1181183#msg1181183 date=1285258129]
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=41783.msg1181177#msg1181177 date=1285257613]
[quote author=Y1 link=topic=41783.msg1181162#msg1181162 date=1285255673]
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=41783.msg1181159#msg1181159 date=1285255391]
[quote author=Y1 link=topic=41783.msg1181156#msg1181156 date=1285255177]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=41783.msg1181151#msg1181151 date=1285254642]
Fucking hell, how many accountants have we got on this site?
[/quote]





have mercy

accountants need football to give them excitement & meaning in life!
[/quote]

I'd forgotten about you.

So that's you, Jack, Portlly, Vlads?, crump?.

I didnt figure Molby for a physicist though.

I know Ross is in the sad world of law, like me.

Or at least I was.

Now I'm in the sad world of Jeremy Kyle.
[/quote]

Guilty as charged

erm since I am not following UK personality, who in the world is JK?


as to the sauce, it is Whore Chester Shy Er lah
[/quote]

The UK Jerry Springer.
[/quote]

Nvm, non he wiser...


[/quote]

You have no idea how lucky you are.

 

[Judge Jules]

Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

Well, nothing's impossible I suppose, but I'd be absolutely amazed if RBS do this. They already have once without success, the debt has now been included with their other "toxic assets" and their CEO has not only said openly that the loan was agreed for too much money (before his time) but has taken personal charge of the case.

 

[Judge Jules]

Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

Avvy, my degree is indeed in languages. I took the company secretary course and exams about 15 years later as a career move.

 

[RMA]

Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=41783.msg1181209#msg1181209 date=1285260548]
Well, nothing's impossible I suppose, but I'd be absolutely amazed if RBS do this. They already have once without success, the debt has now been included with their other "toxic assets" and their CEO has not only said openly that the loan was agreed for too much money (before his time) but has taken personal charge of the case.
[/quote]

For RBS surely getting £20 Million interest in August was success?

 

[Judge Jules]

Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

I'm sure it helped, but they wanted the lot back, which is why they now class the debt as toxic. In the end interest payments aren't going to compensate them fully if the loan capital itself disappears up Hicks' fundament.

 

[ragehard]

Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

so what happens to the 1/2 that uncle george defaulted on - do rbs get that back? does hicks have to pay it?

 

[Judge Jules]

Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

My guess is there'll probably be some kind of agreement between H and G allowing H first option on Gillett's half, but (a) he'll be in no position to exercise that without refinancing and (b) yes, if he did buy it he'd be buying the debt on it too.

 

[RMA]

Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

What do you guys think of the below figures?

German-based sports consultancy, Sport + Markt, said Barcelona’s European fan base had risen from 44.1m in 2008-09 to 57.8m last season.

But although Barcelona’s fan base is far bigger than the next most popular club, Real Madrid, its Spanish rivals are far more accomplished at making money out of their fans, the consultancy said in a report on Europe’s most popular clubs, published on Thursday.


Measuring the fan base against turnover, Sport + Markt concludes that each European fan of Barcelona is generating €6.30 ($8) in turnover, whereas all its major rivals are making double-digit amounts from each of their fans.


Bayern Munich, for example, is generating €14 per fan, Liverpool €13.30 and Arsenal €12.90. Real Madrid makes €12.80 out of each fan.

While Inter Milan grew its fan base from 10.2m to 17.5m, Real Madrid suffered a decline of 10m to 31m, the consultancy said.

Sport + Markt reached their findings based on a poll of 10,200 people conducted in May across 17 countries

 

[Sunny]

Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

I think it shows some footy fans are fickle band wagonners. How can numbers of 'fans' fluctuate so much ?

 

[RMA]

Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

i think they have extrapolated the data. they have only intervied 10,200 people.

The figures i was more interested in are the revenue generated by each fan - according to this we are second only to Bayern

 

[Molbystwin]

Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=41783.msg1181201#msg1181201 date=1285260180]
[quote author=RMA link=topic=41783.msg1181198#msg1181198 date=1285260027]
Some more from the FT

Liverpool’s bank lenders may be willing to extend their loans to the club but only for a short period to allow time for it to find a buyer, people close to the situation say.
With owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett struggling to put together a refinancing of the club’s £280m debts owed to Royal Bank of Scotland and Wachovia, Christian Purslow, managing director, said on Wednesday that a small number of parties were carrying out due diligence.

But he added that Liverpool’s independent directors would continue to vote against refinancing plans put forward by the owners. In an interview on Liverpool’s website, Mr Purslow said to refinance the club’s debts against assets would require board approval “and the other members of the board have made it clear that’s not what we want to see happenâ€.
He added that refinancing was “very unlikelyâ€.

The US owners were outvoted by the three independent directors – Mr Purslow, chairman Martin Broughton and commercial director Ian Ayre – when they put forward debt refinancing proposals in June.

Last week, Mr Hicks again put forward a refinancing plan, which appears to have been undermined by the withdrawal of GSO Capital Partners, the credit arm of US private equity company Blackstone.

One person familiar with the process said the owners’ price tag of £600m-£800m had put off bidders.
If a buyer is not found before mid-October, among the options is a short extension of the loan to find a buyer, provided there was a “clear plan to resolve the question of ownership and the financial stability†of the club, said one person familiar with the situation.

There would also probably be more severe conditions imposed on the loan.

Mr Purslow said too high a proportion of the club’s revenues and profits was servicing loans, interest costs and bank charges. “Can we afford to meet them? Just about,†he said.
He said Liverpool was “not going bust†and its sale would reduce or wipe out its debts and render it highly profitable.

[/quote]

"One person familiar with the situation" probably = "one hack who needs to fill column space".
[/quote]

Indeed. That article just makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever. So RBS puts pressure on Hicks and Gillette to either pay up or piss off, but in doing so provide a deadline which makes it almost impossible for them to do so at a profit (unless a total mug arrives) because everyman and his dog know that RBS has put the bullets in the gun and is waiting to shoot the mangy dogs??

It just doesnt add up... RBS want it off the books and want their money back but in telling everyone that that is the case it means that the people who owe them the debt can't pay up, which in turn means they can call in the debt and sell it to somebody who can pay...so to then choose to not call in the debt and run another extension with exactly the same problem from the same debtors?? What the fuck??

Maybe they are trying to suck one last draught of blood out of GnH in charges... fuck knows.... maybe they hope GnH will refuse their refinancing offer this time round because they know it actually is hopeless unless they can put some capital in themselves, which they cannot. Its just weird, maybe the think GnH will just walk away instead of expensively delaying the inevitable at high cost.... lots of jockeying for position before the court case or what?? Its just weird....

 

[ragehard]

Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

rbs will not take us off hicks come refinancing. they'll extend the loan and take some more lump sum interest payments if hicks fails to refinance elsewhere.

all this toxic debt shit is positioning.

 

[Wilko7]

Re: Merged Topics: Club Refinance Thread

Just watched the Purslow interview and couldn't help but be impressed with him. I would hope that the new owners keep him and Ayre in place after the sale is completed.