LFC SOLD to NESV.

[Y1]

Re: Club Refinance Thread

A company who defaults in its payments to secured creditors, the creditors will appoint a manager and receiver to take over the daily operations. I wonder whether CP is that M&R in actuality?

When the secured creditor (RBS in this case) appoints a Receiver, the Receiver will first steady the debtor's business and cash flow (maybe that is why we hardly see any cash outflow in player purchase lately) to pay the creditors. If the entity is not able, then and only then will there be assets sale to recover the debt.

I think as CP said the operations is managing to pay interest and some repayment of principal, there is no reason why RBS would recall loan. It is a going concern and liquid enough as the MD said for another 2 years.

In this case RBS will sit tight and let thinks flow. I can't see it recalling the loan, that means it will extend the tenure on way or another.

 

[spider-Neil]

Re: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=Wilko link=topic=41783.msg1184242#msg1184242 date=1285756126]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41783.msg1184217#msg1184217 date=1285752215]
I'm mainly looking for a new owner to pay down debt and start the stadium. that's enough, if our interest payments are low we make enough a year to properely invest in the team.
[/quote]

Where have you been looking, Neil? Sounds like you're giving Barcap a run for their money!
[/quote]

just being realistic in that I don't think we'll get someone who will pour loads and loads into 'project LFC', so paying down debt, using turnover to buy players and starting the stadium is realistic. of course all of this is pie in the sky if hicks turns pulls a refinance deal out of the bag.

 

[spider-Neil]

Re: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=Y1 link=topic=41783.msg1184243#msg1184243 date=1285756248]
A company who defaults in its payments to secured creditors, the creditors will appoint a manager and receiver to take over the daily operations. I wonder whether CP is that M&R in actuality?

When the secured creditor (RBS in this case) appoints a Receiver, the Receiver will first steady the debtor's business and cash flow (maybe that is why we hardly see any cash outflow in player purchase lately) to pay the creditors. If the entity is not able, then and only then will there be assets sale to recover the debt.

I think as CP said the operations is managing to pay interest and some repayment of principal, there is no reason why RBS would recall loan. It is a going concern and liquid enough as the MD said for another 2 years.

In this case RBS will sit tight and let thinks flow. I can't see it recalling the loan, that means it will extend the tenure on way or another.
[/quote]

if (fingers crossed) hicks fails to find the money by mid oct then the bank absolutely will call in the loan, they will then put the club up at a realistic price (not this 600m bullshit) and the club will be sold pretty sharpish.

 

[Avmenon]

Re: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=Y1 link=topic=41783.msg1184243#msg1184243 date=1285756248]
A company who defaults in its payments to secured creditors, the creditors will appoint a manager and receiver to take over the daily operations. I wonder whether CP is that M&R in actuality?

When the secured creditor (RBS in this case) appoints a Receiver, the Receiver will first steady the debtor's business and cash flow (maybe that is why we hardly see any cash outflow in player purchase lately) to pay the creditors. If the entity is not able, then and only then will there be assets sale to recover the debt.

I think as CP said the operations is managing to pay interest and some repayment of principal, there is no reason why RBS would recall loan. It is a going concern and liquid enough as the MD said for another 2 years.

In this case RBS will sit tight and let thinks flow. I can't see it recalling the loan, that means it will extend the tenure on way or another.
[/quote]

I'm not sure if RBS are going to do that, Mike.
If they appoint a receiver and manager I'm pretty sure that ill be construed by the Premier League as falling within the parameters of admnistration.

 

[Insignificance]

Re: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41783.msg1184236#msg1184236 date=1285755236]
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=41783.msg1184228#msg1184228 date=1285753440]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41783.msg1184223#msg1184223 date=1285752837]
also the entire debt doesn't have to be paid off, it just needs to be payed down to an amount we can comfortably afford after wages and new signings.
[/quote]

Well, if RBS take over the stocks, and then sell them, I guess there is no depth on the club. How the buyer gets his money is not my concern as long as it is not towards the club as security.

We will probably have to accept some depth on the club regarding the new stadium, but that is another story.
[/quote]

the debt is going to be part of the sale, whoever buys us will buy the debt. my point is if someone bought us and (for example) played 20% of the debt back on the club as long as they started the stadium and pumped what the club makes back into the playing staff, I would have no problem with that.
[/quote]

There is were I disagree with you. The price of the club is the depth. The new owner pays the bank the amount of the depth, and woosh the depth is gone.

 

[Asbo]

Re: Club Refinance Thread

debt

 

[spider-Neil]

Re: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=41783.msg1184255#msg1184255 date=1285757680]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41783.msg1184236#msg1184236 date=1285755236]
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=41783.msg1184228#msg1184228 date=1285753440]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41783.msg1184223#msg1184223 date=1285752837]
also the entire debt doesn't have to be paid off, it just needs to be payed down to an amount we can comfortably afford after wages and new signings.
[/quote]

Well, if RBS take over the stocks, and then sell them, I guess there is no depth on the club. How the buyer gets his money is not my concern as long as it is not towards the club as security.

We will probably have to accept some depth on the club regarding the new stadium, but that is another story.
[/quote]

the debt is going to be part of the sale, whoever buys us will buy the debt. my point is if someone bought us and (for example) played 20% of the debt back on the club as long as they started the stadium and pumped what the club makes back into the playing staff, I would have no problem with that.
[/quote]

There is were I disagree with you. The price of the club is the depth. The new owner pays the bank the amount of the depth, and woosh the depth is gone.


[/quote]

hick and gillett bought the club off moores, including the debt. you buy the club you buy the debt, the question is how much of the debt do you place on the club after the sale. with G&H it was 100% (after they said they would), I'm saying I would be okay with new owners placing up to 20% of the debt back on the club as we would still have healthy profits to reinvest in the team. if the new owners don't place 'some' of the debt back on the club they will only take the money out of the club with dividens, it's what investors do.

 

[Wilko7]

Re: Club Refinance Thread

An interesting, in debt discussion regarding depth.

 

[Insignificance]

Re: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41783.msg1184260#msg1184260 date=1285758647]
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=41783.msg1184255#msg1184255 date=1285757680]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41783.msg1184236#msg1184236 date=1285755236]
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=41783.msg1184228#msg1184228 date=1285753440]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41783.msg1184223#msg1184223 date=1285752837]
also the entire debt doesn't have to be paid off, it just needs to be payed down to an amount we can comfortably afford after wages and new signings.
[/quote]

Well, if RBS take over the stocks, and then sell them, I guess there is no depth on the club. How the buyer gets his money is not my concern as long as it is not towards the club as security.

We will probably have to accept some depth on the club regarding the new stadium, but that is another story.
[/quote]

the debt is going to be part of the sale, whoever buys us will buy the debt. my point is if someone bought us and (for example) played 20% of the debt back on the club as long as they started the stadium and pumped what the club makes back into the playing staff, I would have no problem with that.
[/quote]

There is were I disagree with you. The price of the club is the depth. The new owner pays the bank the amount of the depth, and woosh the depth is gone.


[/quote]

hick and gillett bought the club off moores, including the debt. you buy the club you buy the debt, the question is how much of the debt do you place on the club after the sale. with G&H it was 100% (after they said they would), I'm saying I would be okay with new owners placing up to 20% of the debt back on the club as we would still have healthy profits to reinvest in the team. if the new owners don't place 'some' of the debt back on the club they will only take the money out of the club with dividens, it's what investors do.
[/quote]

But the total clubs debt ( 😉) is lets say 283 mill pounds owed to RBS. Once the buyer pay the 283 to RBS there in no more debt. There could of course be some minor debt around, but in all major ways the club will be debt free, and 100 % owned by the buyer of that debt. So the buyer would be free to laden new debt on the club if he wants, but there we have to trust the board to find the right buyer.

 

[Avmenon]

Re: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=Asbo link=topic=41783.msg1184257#msg1184257 date=1285757916]
debt
[/quote]

Thanks,Asbo..I was going right mental but didnt want to say anything 8)

Just kidding, Insig ;D

Insig : your rationale is what I hope happens, and that's the only viable reason for RBS not to extend the loans.

Hope it works out that way.

 

[Y1]

Re: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=41783.msg1184250#msg1184250 date=1285757011]
[quote author=Y1 link=topic=41783.msg1184243#msg1184243 date=1285756248]
A company who defaults in its payments to secured creditors, the creditors will appoint a manager and receiver to take over the daily operations. I wonder whether CP is that M&R in actuality?

When the secured creditor (RBS in this case) appoints a Receiver, the Receiver will first steady the debtor's business and cash flow (maybe that is why we hardly see any cash outflow in player purchase lately) to pay the creditors. If the entity is not able, then and only then will there be assets sale to recover the debt.

I think as CP said the operations is managing to pay interest and some repayment of principal, there is no reason why RBS would recall loan. It is a going concern and liquid enough as the MD said for another 2 years.

In this case RBS will sit tight and let thinks flow. I can't see it recalling the loan, that means it will extend the tenure on way or another.
[/quote]

I'm not sure if RBS are going to do that, Mike.
If they appoint a receiver and manager I'm pretty sure that ill be construed by the Premier League as falling within the parameters of admnistration.
[/quote]

You know creative bankers and accountants are nowadays, not even mentioning lawyers.

 

[Y1]

Re: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=Wilko link=topic=41783.msg1184264#msg1184264 date=1285759243]
An interesting, in debt discussion regarding depth.
[/quote]

LOL

 

[spider-Neil]

Re: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=41783.msg1184266#msg1184266 date=1285759729]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41783.msg1184260#msg1184260 date=1285758647]
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=41783.msg1184255#msg1184255 date=1285757680]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41783.msg1184236#msg1184236 date=1285755236]
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=41783.msg1184228#msg1184228 date=1285753440]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41783.msg1184223#msg1184223 date=1285752837]
also the entire debt doesn't have to be paid off, it just needs to be payed down to an amount we can comfortably afford after wages and new signings.
[/quote]

Well, if RBS take over the stocks, and then sell them, I guess there is no depth on the club. How the buyer gets his money is not my concern as long as it is not towards the club as security.

We will probably have to accept some depth on the club regarding the new stadium, but that is another story.
[/quote]

the debt is going to be part of the sale, whoever buys us will buy the debt. my point is if someone bought us and (for example) played 20% of the debt back on the club as long as they started the stadium and pumped what the club makes back into the playing staff, I would have no problem with that.
[/quote]

There is were I disagree with you. The price of the club is the depth. The new owner pays the bank the amount of the depth, and woosh the depth is gone.


[/quote]

hick and gillett bought the club off moores, including the debt. you buy the club you buy the debt, the question is how much of the debt do you place on the club after the sale. with G&H it was 100% (after they said they would), I'm saying I would be okay with new owners placing up to 20% of the debt back on the club as we would still have healthy profits to reinvest in the team. if the new owners don't place 'some' of the debt back on the club they will only take the money out of the club with dividens, it's what investors do.
[/quote]

But the total clubs debt ( 😉) is lets say 283 mill pounds owed to RBS. Once the buyer pay the 283 to RBS there in no more debt. There could of course be some minor debt around, but in all major ways the club will be debt free, and 100 % owned by the buyer of that debt. So the buyer would be free to laden new debt on the club if he wants, but there we have to trust the board to find the right buyer.
[/quote]

it is a matter of trust though unless the board can write up a legally binding contract that minimal debt will be placed on the club after the sale and it remains to be seen who will agree to that.

 

[Hansern]

Re: Club Refinance Thread

I'm just hoping, that when we approach the deadline, that RBS tell H&G that they will indeed call in the loan and take over Liverpool, if they don't sell in a given number of days. That way H&G have to lower the valuation or risk losing everyting.
If the asking price is dropped to about 400m, then I'd think a sale could be done.

 

[Insignificance]

Re: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=Hansern link=topic=41783.msg1184288#msg1184288 date=1285763304]
I'm just hoping, that when we approach the deadline, that RBS tell H&G that they will indeed call in the loan and take over Liverpool, if they don't sell in a given number of days. That way H&G have to lower the valuation or risk losing everyting.
If the asking price is dropped to about 400m, then I'd think a sale could be done.


[/quote]

I think your still too optimistic. 400 mill pounds for a club who can probably be snapped up on a drop off 50% price within months? Still if anyone this way will avoid a "auction" afterwords maybe. However I think Tom Hicks is too fucking stupid and greedy to actually accept that bid, but would try to get even more!!

 

[Asbo]

Re: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=Hansern link=topic=41783.msg1184288#msg1184288 date=1285763304]
I'm just hoping, that when we approach the deadline, that RBS tell H&G that they will indeed call in the loan and take over Liverpool, if they don't sell in a given number of days. That way H&G have to lower the valuation or risk losing everyting.
If the asking price is dropped to about 400m, then I'd think a sale could be done.


[/quote]

Excuse me, they already told them that, this is what the 'deadline' is all about.

 

[Hansern]

Re: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=Asbo link=topic=41783.msg1184292#msg1184292 date=1285763745]
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=41783.msg1184288#msg1184288 date=1285763304]
I'm just hoping, that when we approach the deadline, that RBS tell H&G that they will indeed call in the loan and take over Liverpool, if they don't sell in a given number of days. That way H&G have to lower the valuation or risk losing everyting.
If the asking price is dropped to about 400m, then I'd think a sale could be done.


[/quote]

Excuse me, they already told them that, this is what the 'deadline' is all about.
[/quote]

Yes, I'm aware of that. But RBS have still to say that they will take any action. There's a chance they'll give a further extension aswell just because that might see us sold without them taking over.

 

[Asbo]

Re: Club Refinance Thread

Well I thought G&H getting Broughton in to sell the club (at considerable expense) was done just for the primary reason of not defaulting on the debt and falling into the hands of the RBS.

If it was and is, why give the greedy fuckers another chance?

 

[Insignificance]

Re: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=Asbo link=topic=41783.msg1184306#msg1184306 date=1285767273]
Well I thought G&H getting Broughton in to sell the club (at considerable expense) was done just for the primary reason of not defaulting on the debt and falling into the hands of the RBS.

If it was and is, why give the greedy fuckers another chance?
[/quote]

Wasnt Broughton RBSs guy to overview the sale? I thought he hadnt been around if G&H had it their way...

 

[Atlas]

Re: Club Refinance Thread

Does anyone maybe think that was an RBS plan all along then?
To put Broughton on the board, make sure no real plans are pushed forward with selling the club, so that the refinancing doesnt go ahead and then RBS make a bucket load more from selling the club themselves?

(obv this 'theory' goes out the window if RBS dont make money from taking on the club and selling off, but one wuld assume they would do so)

 

[Farkmaster]

Re: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=Asim link=topic=41783.msg1184346#msg1184346 date=1285773147]
Does anyone maybe think that was an RBS plan all along then?
To put Broughton on the board, make sure no real plans are pushed forward with selling the club, so that the refinancing doesnt go ahead and then RBS make a bucket load more from selling the club themselves?

(obv this 'theory' goes out the window if RBS dont make money from taking on the club and selling off, but one wuld assume they would do so)
[/quote]

I don't know what the end game here is, but I've seen no evidence that anyone's master plan is working out, or that this is going to end well.

 

[Judge Jules]

Re: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=Asim link=topic=41783.msg1184346#msg1184346 date=1285773147]
Does anyone maybe think that was an RBS plan all along then?
To put Broughton on the board, make sure no real plans are pushed forward with selling the club, so that the refinancing doesnt go ahead and then RBS make a bucket load more from selling the club themselves?

(obv this 'theory' goes out the window if RBS dont make money from taking on the club and selling off, but one wuld assume they would do so)
[/quote]

No. The question of refinancing wouldn't be affected by whether or not a sale went through. If anything it would be the other way around - a sale was always likely to have to wait until Hicks had tried to refinance.

 

[localny]

Re: Club Refinance Thread

From here
http://www.anfieldroad.com/news/201009294038/get-in-the-movies-and-send-a-message-to-lfc-owners.html/

Casting Director Dan Hubbard (King Kong, The Damned United, The Bourne Ultimatum and more) and Hollywood Producer & Director Mike Jefferies are both massive Liverpool supporters. And that means they’ve also had just about enough of the situation too. And they’re going to do something about it.

But, as with every part of this whole campaign, they need your help.

Are you in Liverpool this weekend? Can you be in Liverpool this weekend?

They’re making a film, they want it to go viral, they want you to star in it.

It’s not just about the famous faces they’ve approached to join in, it’s about all fans – all fans who want an end to this nightmare.

Get yourself down to the Hope Street Hotel in town this weekend.

Saturday: 10am-6pm.
Sunday: 9am-Noon.

It won’t take long – unless there’s a queue. And it’ll be a queue worth joining.

Don’t forget, there’s a game being played on Sunday, with a protest before, during and after, but if you can spare some extra time and make it to the hotel during those times it could literally be the difference between success and failure.

Success is a move towards getting our club back. Failure – forget failure. We’ll win this one – because we’re all getting together to make sure we do.

The twelfth man isn’t just the Kop for this. It’s all of us, wherever we are.

If you absolutely can’t get involved this weekend don’t worry. You’ll be needed when the movie is done. You’ll be needed to help spread the word.

But do what you can to get down.

And do what you can to spread the word.

We will get our club back.

 

[Judge Jules]

Re: Club Refinance Thread

Mike Jefferies was involved in an earlier attempt to buy the club from Moores, if I'm not mistaken. Not sure about Hubbard, though Jefferies did have a partner in that bid.

 

[localny]

Re: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=41783.msg1184379#msg1184379 date=1285777578]
Mike Jefferies was involved in an earlier attempt to buy the club from Moores, if I'm not mistaken. Not sure about Hubbard, though Jefferies did have a partner in that bid.
[/quote]

Dunks friend in L4 consortium!

 

[Terrier]

Re: Club Refinance Thread

No smart business man is going to buy the club here, absolutely no chance.

In 2 weeks, the club's valuation will be equal to its debt.

That essentially values the Liverpool Brand, its players and stadium value at zero....( G+H are valuing that component at 300m!)

Someone is going to get a massive bargain.

 

[spider-Neil]

Re: Club Refinance Thread

that is essentially the long and short of it, interested parties are now going to wait until rbs call in the debt and sell at cost therefore it is really a question of whether or not hicks can find the money to refinance rather than if we can sell before mid october.

very scary...

 

[Vlads Quiff]

Re: Club Refinance Thread

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=41783.msg1184204#msg1184204 date=1285750670]
Exactly so.

Vlad, interesting post and price is clearly going to be crucial to any buyer, but in this case more than most. Any such buyer will know some quite hefty investment will be needed to pump-prime the club for getting back to/near the top, so (in addition to wanting to anyway) they'll have to minimise the price they pay in order to have as much cash as possible free to invest afterwards. In terms of a possible pre-deadline sale, therefore, my guess is much will depend on how likely any prospective buyer thinks H and G are to go to law if the club is sold out from under them.
[/quote]

That was part of my thinking as regards cleaner if it was brought directly off the banks as it would be the bank that would take the shit if they were in a position not to sell it and have to stump up if it was found in Hicks favour. If it was before the bank taking over it would be the board and the bank that Hicks would go at,

regards

 

[Terrier]

Re: Club Refinance Thread

G+ H wont be able to find a buyer at this late stage unless they drop their asking price to DEBT + a minor premium, example 10-15%.

I would like to know how much G+H have invested of their OWN capital in the Liverpool operation to understand their predicament.

If it's merely leveraged debt - with interest being paid from Liverpool's operating profit - then they stand to lose nothing at all.

 

[ragehard]

Re: Club Refinance Thread

i really do think that rbs will extend the loan. sure they'll huff and puff but i reckon they'll give hicks another 6 months.