lucas
- Thread starter Skullflower
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we can only hope
I don't think anyone is stating that Lucas' absence was the reason for our poor season. However, it was one of a number of contributing factors.
Lucas started 20 games and made 15 sub appearances in 2008/09
We finished 2nd.
Unlucky Ross.
Actually we would have won it if he started every game.
I wouldn't say that's unlucky. More like poor knowledge or lack of research.
Hey I'm with team Lucas as well.
That's obviously not accurate.
I can't say for sure but my guess would be that your previous position on his efforts and talents has prejudiced you when viewing just how good he is.
Viera and Essien???? Who the hell ever suggested he was playing like either of them. Essien, in particular, was a Gerrard type player who, for a couple of seasons, was as close as it gets to being Gerrard in a chavs shirt. Viera was also a lot more similar to Gerrard than Lucas in role and performance.
It's interesting that you note Makelele who himself rates Lucas as an extremely similar player to himself. Lucas isn't there yet, IMO, but I think he's going to be and I'll warrant he'll have a better long passing game than Makelele too. Saying "he was very good in 2 games" is just such utter drivel and nonsense it makes you look a fool. Everyone knows that's just hyperbolic bravado trying to get a reaction - and yes, I'm well aware I'm providing that reaction - but it begs the question as how it benefits you to continue pursuing this agenda.
Maybe there's a personal vendetta going on but we all know you're not going to convince people who actually watch the game; maybe changing your current approach of begrudging him a good performance and actually enjoying it when he performs well will give you a more balanced perspective on his value as a player.
When Claude Makalele was the age Lucas is now he had just moved from Nantes to Marseille (before moving to Celta Vigo BEFORE being noticed by a big club) and had made TWO appearances for the french national team.
Lucas has played 185 games for one of the biggest clubs in the world and has 20 caps for BRAZIL.
Yeah. Hes shit.
this is why i get paranoid.
Jordi's match awareness was nothing to write home about. He used to have to keep a copy of the programme in his shorts.
To the ‘why has no one ever put in an offer for him’ remark, well I guess you could say the same for Jamie Carragher, Carlos Puyol, Xavi, Ryan Giggs, Paul Scholes and plenty of other players. Just because they’re happy at the club they’re playing for and haven’t instructed their agent to whore them around Europe so they can get a better contract at home doesn’t mean they’re not valuable.
As for him, not being good enough to play in a Top 4 side, well aside from oncy rubbishing that claim (twice), it’s a fair indication of what the typical British football supporter needs to see in a player in ordfer to value him. If he’s not quick, doesn’t slide about on his arse for half a game, doesn’t provide any assists, and scores fuck all goals – then he’s no use. Look, here’s some Carling Opta stats to prove it too! Charlie Adam has more assists!
The above characteristics, or lack of them are interesting – cos they’d apply to plenty of other footballers around these days too. Busquets. Pirlo. Makalele. Song. Alonso. All shite.
Do a youtube search for ‘Steven Gerrard tackle’ and you get pages of videos. If you watch some of them, we even manage to win a throw in out of them. It’s inspirational stuff. Charlie Adam scored goals and provided assist last season too. We’re currently negotiating with Fulham to get rid of him if reports are to be believed.
In Italy, Spain, Brazil, wherever a player like Lucas would be revered. Wins it back (without launching along on his arse to do so), gets it, keeps it, moves it, and does that again and again. It’s simplistic, and sounds almost workmanlike, but have any of you watched Spain over the last 6 years?
There is no better player in our team as receiving it, keeping it and moving it at the right tempo? No one, not Gerrard, not anyone. There is no better player in our team at winning the ball back. Not Skrtel, not anyone. And there is no better centre midfielder at the club than him. Not Gerrard, you get the picture. There's an art in receiving the ball and passing it at the perfect weight, all the fucking time. If there wasn't, then Charlie Ada would play, or we'd still have Momo Sissoko in the squad. Why are the best teams in the world always the ones that do the simple things better than anyone else? It doesn't have to be complicated, it's football. Do it simply, and do it well.
The best footballers aren't the best footballers cos they can kick the ball harder, or tackle more forcefully, or ping 50 metre passes onto a 50p piece. They're the best cos of what they've got in their head, not their fucking feet.
I find it bizarre that 5 years on we’re still having these debates, and I’m still singing the same message. Perhaps it’s cops people’s long standing grudge against him is difficult to shake, and there’s a need to give it one last hurrah, but it’s fruitless – he’s a top player, and he’s going to be the fulcrum of our midfield for years. Years people, years.
Watch him this year. He was the best midfielder in the league last year before he did his knee. Not just the best defensive midfielder, the best midfielder in the league. And not borne out of a couple of matches against Man City, but him approaching the peak of two years of quality football. He was sublime, and will return to be. If he stays fit, this argument won’t even need to be had in a few months time, cos it’ll be acknowledged without having to say so – cos he’s a class act.
We haven’t even touched on his attitude either, which in a fucking age of absolute cunts (anyone watch the Community Shield yesterday by the way? Whopping cuntathon that thing) is so fucking refreshing to see. Someone who enjoys the game, and loves the club. He puts quite a few of us to shame, me included.
Love him. Always have, always will. Watch him go.
As for him, not being good enough to play in a Top 4 side, well aside from oncy rubbishing that claim (twice), it’s a fair indication of what the typical British football supporter needs to see in a player in ordfer to value him. If he’s not quick, doesn’t slide about on his arse for half a game, doesn’t provide any assists, and scores fuck all goals – then he’s no use. Look, here’s some Carling Opta stats to prove it too! Charlie Adam has more assists!
The above characteristics, or lack of them are interesting – cos they’d apply to plenty of other footballers around these days too. Busquets. Pirlo. Makalele. Song. Alonso. All shite.
Do a youtube search for ‘Steven Gerrard tackle’ and you get pages of videos. If you watch some of them, we even manage to win a throw in out of them. It’s inspirational stuff. Charlie Adam scored goals and provided assist last season too. We’re currently negotiating with Fulham to get rid of him if reports are to be believed.
In Italy, Spain, Brazil, wherever a player like Lucas would be revered. Wins it back (without launching along on his arse to do so), gets it, keeps it, moves it, and does that again and again. It’s simplistic, and sounds almost workmanlike, but have any of you watched Spain over the last 6 years?
There is no better player in our team as receiving it, keeping it and moving it at the right tempo? No one, not Gerrard, not anyone. There is no better player in our team at winning the ball back. Not Skrtel, not anyone. And there is no better centre midfielder at the club than him. Not Gerrard, you get the picture. There's an art in receiving the ball and passing it at the perfect weight, all the fucking time. If there wasn't, then Charlie Ada would play, or we'd still have Momo Sissoko in the squad. Why are the best teams in the world always the ones that do the simple things better than anyone else? It doesn't have to be complicated, it's football. Do it simply, and do it well.
The best footballers aren't the best footballers cos they can kick the ball harder, or tackle more forcefully, or ping 50 metre passes onto a 50p piece. They're the best cos of what they've got in their head, not their fucking feet.
I find it bizarre that 5 years on we’re still having these debates, and I’m still singing the same message. Perhaps it’s cops people’s long standing grudge against him is difficult to shake, and there’s a need to give it one last hurrah, but it’s fruitless – he’s a top player, and he’s going to be the fulcrum of our midfield for years. Years people, years.
Watch him this year. He was the best midfielder in the league last year before he did his knee. Not just the best defensive midfielder, the best midfielder in the league. And not borne out of a couple of matches against Man City, but him approaching the peak of two years of quality football. He was sublime, and will return to be. If he stays fit, this argument won’t even need to be had in a few months time, cos it’ll be acknowledged without having to say so – cos he’s a class act.
We haven’t even touched on his attitude either, which in a fucking age of absolute cunts (anyone watch the Community Shield yesterday by the way? Whopping cuntathon that thing) is so fucking refreshing to see. Someone who enjoys the game, and loves the club. He puts quite a few of us to shame, me included.
Love him. Always have, always will. Watch him go.
'watch him go'
lol
lol
I was pleasantly surprised.
Ryan - fantastic post, really great !!! everything you say is so true. I loved the bit about his attitude, did any of you hear the reports about how determined he was to recover from the injury ? - the liverpool people in charge of that said they have never had any so determined to come back and do it so quickly than Lucas. Legend in the making before our eyes. Second what Ryna G-String says : - "Watch him Go "!!!!
Best midfielder in the league? No way.
But apart from that, a nice post by Ryan.
But apart from that, a nice post by Ryan.
You can't even begin to imagine how little your opinion matters to me.
Heh, didn't sound that gay when I was typing it.
He couldn't ... A lot of Lucas's maturation as a player was aided by Kenny ... He's not the best midfielder in the league, and I still don't see him in the same light as Ryan, but I'll happily see him play like he did last year because he was excellent before his injury (I was at the City and Chelsea game, and it was fun seeing him dominate the likes of Yaya Toure etc with so little effort).
You couldn't help but notice the difference yesterday between the first half and the second, the first was so methodical and positionally brilliant, short passing, breaking up the play and dropping perfectly into the back line when he had to and covering the fullbacks too (lucas).
Spearing does it in a different way (more like Mascher without the pace or technical ability), he covers the ground, chases and harasses, but leaves himself wide open and as a result the defense looked more vulnerable. It wasn't just Spearings fault, the midfield was all over the place in terms of positioning and I guess that was down in some small part to the naivety of Spearing and Henderson and the will to show something from those two (and Adam), given their apparent newfound squad status, but the difference in quality was too apparent.
Anyway, the first half was more or less how we'll shape up, with a few new additions being eased in over the course of the month, but I'd still say that's a reasonable couple of fringe players right there who will make a difference when needs be, particularly Shelvey, Sterling and Downing (fair play). No doubt that we'll see those three replaced, probably with Dempsey, Allen and another, plus a loanee coming in too. If it's someone like Sahin, it'll ease the burden on Gerrard who, for all his ability, should be handled with care IMO, fair play to Rodgers for addressing this (it seems he is anyway) and not just crossing his fingers and hoping he get's through the season unscathed.
As I said last season, we're not far off a good side, we made Leverkusen look ordinary without our first choice centre back pairing, with Agger and Skrtel back and new additions, we could be a very tidy team and hopefully it will be a case of quality over quantity, with a core of about 15/16 top players.
Spearing does it in a different way (more like Mascher without the pace or technical ability), he covers the ground, chases and harasses, but leaves himself wide open and as a result the defense looked more vulnerable. It wasn't just Spearings fault, the midfield was all over the place in terms of positioning and I guess that was down in some small part to the naivety of Spearing and Henderson and the will to show something from those two (and Adam), given their apparent newfound squad status, but the difference in quality was too apparent.
Anyway, the first half was more or less how we'll shape up, with a few new additions being eased in over the course of the month, but I'd still say that's a reasonable couple of fringe players right there who will make a difference when needs be, particularly Shelvey, Sterling and Downing (fair play). No doubt that we'll see those three replaced, probably with Dempsey, Allen and another, plus a loanee coming in too. If it's someone like Sahin, it'll ease the burden on Gerrard who, for all his ability, should be handled with care IMO, fair play to Rodgers for addressing this (it seems he is anyway) and not just crossing his fingers and hoping he get's through the season unscathed.
As I said last season, we're not far off a good side, we made Leverkusen look ordinary without our first choice centre back pairing, with Agger and Skrtel back and new additions, we could be a very tidy team and hopefully it will be a case of quality over quantity, with a core of about 15/16 top players.
I'm deliberating whether I should come up with a response to this, but I'll pass because you're clearly being hyperbolic quite deliberately.
No go on Dmish ... I like reading your longer posts
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