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Moyes and RVP rift ?

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gkmacca

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Promising...promising....


Robin van Persie and David Moyes hit skids


DAVID MOYES is facing a battle to win over Manchester United star Robin van Persie.

By David Woods/Published 4th September 2013
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Van Persie cut a frustrated figure at Anfield on Sunday and looked close to losing his cool several times


Starsport can reveal the United striker has yet to be convinced by new Old Trafford boss Moyes, who replaced Sir Alex Ferguson in the summer.

The Dutchman has told pals he is missing Fergie, who was key in persuading him to quit Arsenal for Old Trafford a year ago in a £25m deal.

It is understood Van Persie also has misgivings about some of Moyes' training methods.

Former Everton boss Moyes now has his work cut out to convince Van Persie he is the right man for the United hotseat.

Despite starting the season brightly, with two goals in the champions' first two games, the 30-year-old appeared out of sorts in the goalless draw with Chelsea and 1-0 defeat at Liverpool.
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Moyes needs to find a way to bring the Dutchman round

Van Persie cut a frustrated figure at Anfield on Sunday and looked close to losing his cool several times.

A friend of Van Persie - who has been the Premier League's top scorer for the last two seasons - said: "Robin isn't happy and when that's the case he can't hide it on the pitch.

"When he's frustrated he is capable of doing something silly, and you could see that against Liverpool.

"He feels it isn't the same with the new manager as he misses working with Fergie, who he really loved playing under. Some of Moyes' training methods are not to his liking either."
 
This is pretty much what we were hoping for when he brought his entire backroom staff with him.

It's pretty clear things were run well behind the scenes - so any change was unlikely to have any improvement.
 
This is now starting to remind me of the period after Busby stepped down. Five years after they won their first European Cup, they got relegated. Not saying history's going to repeat itself to that extent, but they may have further to fall yet.

It's all good.
 
I just keep it real by reminding myself that ferguson was there for 7(?) years before winning the league
 
That of course is perfectly true, but he didn't have to contend with over two decades of success weighing on him and the club - on the contrary, it was he who had to pick them up by their bootstraps after they'd failed to get back to winning ways for pretty much a quarter of a century.
 
Why change the training methods... ? If it ain't broke...

I reckon Fergie will be re-instated before the end of the Season...
 
Why change the training methods... ? If it ain't broke...

I reckon Fergie will be re-instated before the end of the Season...
Wouldn't surprise me if this was all part of ginsoaks plan so that he gets even more power the whiskey nose cunt.
 
As JJ suggests, the echoes of the post-Busby era keep coming, although in that case you had the new manager Wilf McGuinness being promoted from within and, unlike Paisley, or Dalglish with Paisley as his advisor, McGuinness failed to find his own authority. It's probably even harder for an outsider, as at least an insider can preach evolution not revolution and gradually stamp his own signature on the set-up, whereas Moyes is too insecure a figure to encourage a view of him as simply a custodian of Fergie's traditions. I'm sure, in that neanderthal mind of his, he's waiting for the chance to take on a senior pro to draw a line in the sand and assert his authority, and I'm not sure he's really up to winning that. Rooney was his best bet - at least he knows him, and knows what buttons to push, and he could have bombed him out of the club without any real fan flak and spent the money on a fitter and more compliant replacement. It looks as though he's bottled that. Now who does he take on? RVP? He'll lose that one.
 
It's open season on Utd.

Basically I'm sure similar shit happened under Fergie, targets missed, fucked up transfer windows, upset players.

However the press didn't heap the pressure on cos they were shit scared of Fergie or he had pictures of them doing coke of a hookers thigh or something.

Now they're all sticking the boot in & fanning the flames.

 
Yes. And, as per usual, their boneheaded fans messed up by singing relentlessly that stupid song for Moyes the minute he arrived, which meant that as soon as they tired of it - about 2pm last Sunday, to be precise - it sounded like a rapid loss of confidence. Fans should always wait for managers to earn a chant or a song.
 
It's open season on Utd.

Basically I'm sure similar shit happened under Fergie, targets missed, fucked up transfer windows, upset players.

However the press didn't heap the pressure on cos they were shit scared of Fergie or he had pictures of them doing coke of a hookers thigh or something.

Now they're all sticking the boot in & fanning the flames.

Exactly the time they lost Tevez and instead signing Owen was the prime example - the problem being they couldn't afford Tevez until Ronaldo went - and by the time that happened he was off to City

Very little was said that time. They missed out on plenty of high profile targets in the past too - Robben springs to mind
 
I'd really like to think appointing Moyes was all part of some evil Fergie masterplan, but in reality I think he's just a megalomaniac who thinks his talent as a football manager extends to all areas - see his ridiculous challenging ofthose Irish billionaire horseracing fellows.
 
I don't know what rvp's problem is. What's there not to like about a bit of longball and rugby style football? Probably been spoon fed too much of this tippy tappy bullshit and trophies for too long.
 
I guess for a lot of journalists, a Moyes disaster is a great story and some have been waiting years to fuck with Man Utd.
 
I guess for a lot of journalists, a Moyes disaster is a great story and some have been waiting years to fuck with Man Utd.
I pretty confident that's what this is; reaction to the weight of Fergie being released from them. Now they will hound Moyes until something bigger and tastier comes along.

I fucking hope it isn't another Suarez incident


Using my ipad so apols for any shitty ios spelling 'corrections'
 
It's open season on Utd.

Basically I'm sure similar shit happened under Fergie, targets missed, fucked up transfer windows, upset players.

However the press didn't heap the pressure on cos they were shit scared of Fergie or he had pictures of them doing coke of a hookers thigh or something.

Now they're all sticking the boot in & fanning the flames.




Indeed, the press are just vultures, I don't believe a word of it tbh. Hoping it is true however is a different matter....
 
Moyes needs to show he's the man for the job, do something radical, stamp his authority.

'Robin, come into my office please....... You'll be playing in the reserves until January and then i'm shipping you out'

'Fellani, my office if you please......Ever heard of the false 9?'
 
It's too soon, we need a few more months of this..

I couldn't for the life of me understand why they dismantled the coaching apparatus.

Sure, Moyes, bring in your own man here and there, but bringing in the Whole EFC set-up? Jesus.

When We had three or so successful successions, we kept a lot of the same people around..

Shanks, to Bob, to Joe, to Kenny... that's three successful successions...four great managers.
 
Whats been interesting about them this summer is how often their behind the scenes activity has been leaked to the press in unflattering light. Moyes came in there and due to his insecurity he fucked out a load of experienced staff with great reputations and long standing connections to the club. All so that he could project an image of himself as his own man. The result is that clearly things arent running as smoothly as they were before, some players, coaches and execs probably never wanted him, others will have been annoyed at his high handed attitude coming in and thinking he knows better than the most successfully run club in the league. In the short term it was always going to be problematic, the question is whether he can get good enough results to win people over to his methods, if they are off the pace of the league by Christmas the fans will turn on him big time
 
Manchester United inquest begins after David Moyes era opens in farce

Transfer deadline day humiliation left Old Trafford club looking indecisive and ill-informed and supporters wanting answers

In a bid to put a bitter summer of transfer humiliation behind them, David Moyes will sit down with the under-fire Manchester United vice chairman, Ed Woodward, in the coming days to draw up a list of targets for January.
Before they do so they will look back, if not in anger then certainly with regret, at a summer of missed opportunities that culminated in 24 hours of screwball transfer deadline-day farce. Amid continued questions about where it all went wrong for the Premier League champions, down a succession of blind alleys and with a string of embarrassing rebuffs, it is understood they will dust themselves down and begin identifying the players they want to bring in during the next window.
Meanwhile, the Manchester United Supporters' Trust is seeking a meeting with Woodward to discuss a range of issues that are likely to include the level of the club's ambition to compete with the best in Europe.
Moyes, for all his public stoicism, is likely to be privately concerned about the club's failure to land a string of major targets and will be unwilling to see this summer's farce replayed as tragedy. The club's disastrous summer was summed up by their deadline-day humiliation.
The pair will take joint responsibility, with Moyes forced to continue to dead-bat questions in public as Woodward waits to make his first public pronouncements in his vice-chairman's role, but in truth it is not the manager who must shoulder the larger share of the blame. Beyond Woodward, the Glazer family is responsible for the fact that United went into the summer with a new manager and a new man at the helm in the boardroom.
The fallout continued when it emerged that the delegation that arrived at the offices of the Spanish league on Monday night expecting to finalise the purchase of Athletic Bilbao's Ander Herrera were far from being the imposters or pranksters initially suggested.
In fact they were experienced lawyers who, Spanish league sources claimed, were indeed working on behalf of United. Adding to the malaise of confusion, Old Trafford insiders continued to insist they were acting without authorisation.
In any case, under the Spanish system it would have been incumbent on the player to meet his release clause. United will have known the size of the clause and should have been fully aware that Bilbao would not let Herrera go for any less.
Instead they continued to try and haggle to the end as Bilbao held firm, only finally walking away late on Monday. Even then there was still time for one last embarrassment as a loan deal for Real Madrid's Portuguese left-back Fábio Coentrão fell through after the Spanish club failed to secure a replacement. As with their other transfer-window dealings, it made United look indecisive and ill-informed.
Thiago Alcântara, Daniele De Rossi, Luka Modric and, it emerged on Tuesday, Galatasaray's Wesley Sneijder were all considered but remained beyond reach.
The tone was set earlier in the summer with the failed pursuit of Cesc Fábregas. Even as sources at other clubs confidently asserted that the former Arsenal midfielder would remain at Barcelona for at least one more season, United were led up the garden path amid a succession of bids that went nowhere.
In the middle of all that, Woodward cancelled a scheduled media appearance to return from United's tour of Australia on "urgent transfer business" that also failed to materialise.
Amid recriminations over a summer of transfer dealing to forget for Woodward, the former investment banker who masterminded Manchester United's exponential commercial growth before taking over from David Gill on 1 July, there will be renewed questions over the Glazers' succession policy.
The balance that worked so well in the latter years of Sir Alex Ferguson's reign despite the onerous financial demands of the Glazer business model, with Woodward effectively running the business side of the club from London and Gill overseeing football matters from Manchester, has been upset.
Some are already openly wondering whether United would not have been better off appointing an experienced European director of football, as at Manchester City and Tottenham Hotspur, to fill the gap between Moyes and Woodward.
Other experienced members of the inner circle of executives who masterminded the football side of the operation largely untouched by Woodward's hugely successful commercial arm in London, or the Glazers in the US, have also moved on. Maurice Watkins, the club's experienced lawyer, stepped down as a director a year ago.
Although United's transfer policy has often come under intense scrutiny during the Glazer years, from the odd bum note (Bébé) to a lack of money to spend, the deals that were concluded tended to be wrapped up speedily and efficiently. The change in approach has not gone unnoticed.
"It has looked a bit odd. I don't think it's gone as smoothly as we'd have liked. For a new start and a new manager it's not ideal. There seems to have been a change in policy in terms of how much information we disclose in advance of any deal," said Duncan Drasdo, chief executive of the supporters' trust.
"It makes it look as though we have failed in the pursuit of a number of players. It was always going to be very tough. You'd think any new manager would need substantial backing to even maintain the status quo."
This summer, Woodward was the victim of a combination of bad luck and bad judgment. Despite his obvious negotiating skills, evidenced by the 31% leap in United's commercial revenues in the last year alone, he is new to the rarified air of the top end of the European transfer market, which is still controlled by a handful of executives and so-called "super agents".
Woodward's outsider status will not have helped. It is not unusual for even seasoned executives, subject to the cut and thrust of the transfer window for the first time, to be gripped by a kind of paralysis as they recoil from the almost obscene sums at play and the vicissitudes of players and agents.
It is also possible that his status as the Glazers' representative on earth caused him to blanch when it came to the crunch, unwilling to risk too much of the club's money.
And amid the Championship Manager meets high-stakes poker shenanigans of the final hours of the transfer window, it was easy to overlook the fact that Manchester United have not shopped at the expensive end of the international market for a long time.
Their recent big-money buys have tended to be promising youngsters from overseas or expensive domestic players. Arguably their last signing from overseas of any stature was Juan Sebastián Verón, not an unalloyed success, and even he came from Lazio rather than Madrid, Barcelona or Milan.
For Moyes, there will be more than mere irritation at the fact that a squad to which he was desperate to add at least two top-quality central midfielders and a left-back has been bolstered only by the last-ditch addition of Marouane Fellaini from his former club – and even then at an inflated price.
For the new manager the embarrassment is all the more acute because he would have had intimate knowledge of Fellaini's contract – and specifically the buyout clause that expired on 31 July and would have allowed United to buy the Belgian for £23.5m had they moved sooner. The impression that lingered was that Fellaini had never been the first-choice option and that Moyes himself was uncharacteristically indecisive.
At Everton, Moyes was meticulous about his transfer targets. As also detailed by Michael Calvin in his new book on football scouting The Nowhere Men, a "war room" at Everton's Finch Farm training complex was given over to a detailed distillation of targets from all over Europe.
In-depth scouting reports were compiled and potential recruits sifted carefully, before being transferred to a succession of whiteboards that lined the wall. Through financial necessity, targets were carefully selected. United's approach has looked scattergun by comparison.
The defiant message from inside Old Trafford , as they picked through the bones of a frenzied and frazzled conclusion to a transfer window that has dented the pride of the Premier League champions, was that their priorities had been achieved.
Namely, to retain the services of Wayne Rooney and sign a seasoned midfielder. But such a claim strikes a discordant note with the noises coming out of Old Trafford earlier in the summer, when it was made abundantly clear that the money was available for a "landmark" signing of up to £60m to kick off the Moyes era.
While not deserving of the level of hyperbolic dismay it has been greeted with in some quarters, emblematic of the general level of hoopla that surrounds each successive transfer window as the TV money pouring in to the top end of the game continues to escalate, the sense of humiliation will be bitterlyfelt – and not only among the club's hierarchy.
In more ways than one, Manchester United trade off their status as the self-appointed biggest club in the world. Madrid and Barcelona may bring in more revenue, partly thanks to the fact they keep the lion's share of La Liga's TV revenue, but United endlessly trumpet their 659 million global "followers" (even after it emerged that figure referred to anyone who had watched the club on television recently, fan or not) and have used their status to mint a rampantly successful international commercial model.
Fans were left scratching their heads, particularly as they looked longingly at Arsenal supporters crowing over the arrival of Mesut Ozil. And an ever-lengthening list of sponsors attracted by the history and romance of the club, as well as those numbers, also demand success and star names. With all due respect to the combative Belgian midfielder, Fellaini is unlikely to set hearts racing in the same way as a Cristiano Ronaldo or a Gareth Bale.
"Some supporters feel it hasn't represented the club very well. It's made us look a bit small-time. We should be competing with Barcelona, Real Madrid and Bayern Munich," said Drasdo. "It has made people concerned. But it's hard to know how much of it is things not working out in this window and how much of it is a bigger issue."
 
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