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Realistically , when do you expect us to challenge , if ever ..

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RedZeppelin

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Bit of a follow on from the "4th isn't going to happen" thread and some of the things touched on in there .

So considering our rivals ,our current position and our progress under the new ownership and management team ....when do you realisitically expect us to mount a real proper title challenge ? . Are people happy to enter another 5 year plan like we did under Houllier and Benitez ?

Obviously the main aim for this season was the try and get into the top 4 but if we don't make it will that mean it's just the same aim next season also ? If we get 4th this season and have a decent summer in the transfer market I am sure a few would expect us to push on again next season and maybe even challenge. But if we finished 5th or 6th then it will surely be another few years before we are in a position to do so .

That's why some of our recent signings have dissappointed me so much . They may prove good enough to kick on and gets us 4th place but so far I don't see them as being good enough to challenge and surely that is what we should really be aiming for . If we were to do 'a city' and replace them to make the next step up then fine but considering our finances , the player's ages and prices , i am pretty sure they are here to stay for the long term .

I'm probably being a little impatient but I'm just fed up sitting 5th-7th with a target of 4th . I want to be right up there in the mixer , 4th is for losers . Damn the Champions league for making 4th , 4th for fuck sake , so important !!
 
I said a few months back that I thought we were about 10 years behind sides like Man Utd both on and off the pitch. I still think that's about right.

We don't have enough money, enough income coming in on a weekly, monthly, yearly basis, etc, we don't have a good enough squad, players, playing style, manager, etc.

Not only are we still nowhere near challenging our traditional rivals, but we've also been overtaken by clubs we used to be ahead of.

We should hope like fuck for something like 4th cos thats about as good we're likely to get ini the next few years. We're what, 15 pointsnoff the league leaders in fucking December? And we have no European football to distract us.

We have one focus - the league - and we can't even perform in it. Don't focus on luck, woodwork, referees, injuries, transfer windows, formations, tactics, because they are all small by products of the grander issue: that we're simply a long way behind our rivals on and off the pitch and that gap won't bridge itself anytime soon.

Get used to it.
 
What are you talking about?

Football has proved over and over it doesn't take that long.

It takes the right set of circumstances such as players and manager.

Remember Valencia?

Heck remember us only a few years back. Ged challenged inside 4 years Rafa inside 3 years.

So who says to say we can't under Kenny within a couple of years.
 
Well this time last year we were supposed to be challenging at the top under Roy going by the assurances you'd given us Dreamy, so don't get upset with me for not banking on your hopes this time around either.

There are 4 or 5 clubs now who have better finances than us, better stadia, better income, better teams, better managers, and better playing styles than us. And they're not likely to weaken anytime soon either. I don't see how we're going to bridge that gap never mind overtake them.

I'm basing my argument on facts and the current status of things in English football. Yours is loosely based on hope.

Let's see how this pans out shall we?
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=47826.msg1439487#msg1439487 date=1323227668]
Well this time last year we were supposed to be challenging at the top under Roy going by the assurances you'd given us Dreamy, so don't get upset with me for not banking on your hopes this time around either.

There are 4 or 5 clubs now who have better finances than us, better stadia, better income, better teams, better managers, and better playing styles than us. And they're not likely to weaken anytime soon either. I don't see how we're going to bridge that gap never mind overtake them.

I'm basing my argument on facts and the current status of things in English football. Yours is loosely based on hope.

Let's see how this pans out shall we?
[/quote]

I'm basing mine on cold hard facts.

We challenged under our last 2 managers that got more than 6 months in charge.

Valencia broke through what was seemingly an impossible scenario in Spain.

We can and we will challenge again long before your 10 years estimation comes into effect.

I think the last time we had a lets see how it pans out arguement you were saying Robbie Keane was a great signing and I said although he was a good striker it would not work for him under Rafa for exactly the reasons it didn't

I think we all know how that one paned out don't we?
 
Dreamy - dining out on Robbie Keane again.

If I were you I'd ignore the fact everyone thinks I'm a hapless embarrassment too.
 
I'm not sure whether I fully agree with you Ryan. I think you painting a darker picture than is reality.

We have problems, but they're manageable.

Are we really that far behind Spurs?
 
Probably not a million miles behind Spurs, but we're behind them. They've got better players and a better manager than us.

But they're one just one side. There are 3 or 4 others.
 
i think a lot depends on FSG. if they're prepared to make another investment next summer similar to the one just gone, and this time we spend it at least moderately well, then we can get in the CL, imo. from there, we can build for more.
 
I don't really think it depends on them. It depends on who's spending their money.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=47826.msg1439494#msg1439494 date=1323230667]
Dreamy - dining out on Robbie Keane again.

If I were you I'd ignore the fact everyone thinks I'm a hapless embarrassment too.
[/quote]

Ha ha yes because what everyone on here thinks of me is relavent to this arguement?

The point is your hyperboling to a level of stupidy even I'd be ashamed of.

We've challenged very closely in the league twice in the last 9 years with alot less money and resources and yet you think we won't challenge in the next decade.

Even though we have some amazing young talent in our squad and owners that have a proven track record of investing in there teams.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=47826.msg1439499#msg1439499 date=1323231280]
I don't really think it depends on them. It depends on who's spending their money.
[/quote]

you've given up on Dalglish!? burn him!!!!!!!!!!!
 
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=47826.msg1439503#msg1439503 date=1323231551]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=47826.msg1439494#msg1439494 date=1323230667]
Dreamy - dining out on Robbie Keane again.

If I were you I'd ignore the fact everyone thinks I'm a hapless embarrassment too.
[/quote]Ha ha yes because what everyone on here thinks of me is relavent to this arguement?The point is your hyperboling to a level of stupidy even I'd be ashamed of.We've challenged very closely in the league twice in the last 9 years with alot less money and resources and yet you think we won't challenge in the next decade.Even though we have some amazing young talent in our squad and owners that have a proven track record of investing in there teams.
[/quote]

The side we challenged with under Benitez had Torres, Gerrard, Alonso, Mascherano, Hyypia, Finnan, etc in it. We don't have anywhere near that quality at the moment.

Your last line is pointless - leaving aside the fact I don't think we have amazing young talent - every other side we're competing with has similar or better young talent, and they all have similar investment capabilities.
 
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=47826.msg1439505#msg1439505 date=1323231739]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=47826.msg1439499#msg1439499 date=1323231280]
I don't really think it depends on them. It depends on who's spending their money.
[/quote]

you've given up on Dalglish!? burn him!!!!!!!!!!!
[/quote]

I don't think we'll win the league under him, and I don't like the players he's bought.
 
Heard that good players do not want to come to LFC anymore! *puffs up chest* so we have no choice but to develop our own stars from the youngsters!
 
I don't have as much time as you young fuckers, and I have doubts I'll ever see us do it again, but I saw us in our Glory days, our first FA Cup and our European Glory Days, so I'm not bitter much ;D

And thanks to Rafa I saw us get big ears again at least .....
 
Quite.
Liverpools success runs parallel to my life.
In my youth we could take on the world and nothing could stop us (leagues and European cups galore) then in my middle age the rot set in, beer gut, apathy, FAILURE.
Then Rafa came and I had a life begins at 30 moment bought a porsche (big ears) and felt pretty good about myself.
Now a slow and steady decline to dementia and relegation.

Aaah but what a time my youth was.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47826.msg1439574#msg1439574 date=1323252601]
I agree with Ryan.
And Peter.
X
[/quote]

and i agree with oncey
 
Well i guess it all depends on FSG and our manager.

If the owners continue to back Kenny and he gets it right in the transfer market, then we could see a challenge within a season or two.
 
We seem years behind now because we just sponked millions on a load of gash players while letting better ones leave.

If we'd have spent the money wisely we could be right up there. That's not 10 years, it's 6 months and it's FRUSTRATING AS FUCK
 
It's frustrating because if the Carroll/Downing money had been spent on playing more suited for our current system, ie Mata and Hazard, we'd be much higher right now. It's frustrating because Kenny really missed a trick, I don't think he expected the, lets call it Maxi and Suarez system, to work so well. Those two signings have really let us down because they are not fit for purpose, if we can amend this and enchance the system, we'll be doing much much better. As for the title, if we have a brilliant transfer market and season this and next season, maybe the season after that we can challenge, I doubt it though.

Before anyone says anything I know you can't just cherry pick players, I was just highlighting the players we could have got for the same amount of cash.
 
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=47826.msg1439605#msg1439605 date=1323254906]
Ryan Peter Oncey and Fabio are in the Kenny out camp?
[/quote]

i'm not in it yet, but if he keeps on baffling me with his decisions i might get in it
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47826.msg1439595#msg1439595 date=1323254226]
Quite.
Liverpools success runs parallel to my life.
In my youth we could take on the world and nothing could stop us (leagues and European cups galore) then in my middle age the rot set in, beer gut, apathy, FAILURE.
Then Rafa came and I had a life begins at 30 moment bought a porsche (big ears) and felt pretty good about myself.
Now a slow and steady decline to dementia and relegation.

Aaah but what a time my youth was.

[/quote]

fucking hell oncy, you've just described my life (sans the beer belly).
 
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=47826.msg1439605#msg1439605 date=1323254906]
Ryan Peter Oncey and Fabio are in the Kenny out camp?
[/quote]

I'm not sure if I'm in it. There have been loads of good signs, and it does feel wrong to actually say I want him out... cos I don't. But, leaving emotion aside, do I think we could find a better, younger, manager? I think I'd have to say yes.

Is that the same as wanting Kenny out, though? Sure doesn't feel like it.
 
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=47826.msg1439628#msg1439628 date=1323257567]
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=47826.msg1439605#msg1439605 date=1323254906]
Ryan Peter Oncey and Fabio are in the Kenny out camp?
[/quote]

I'm not sure if I'm in it. There have been loads of good signs, and it does feel wrong to actually say I want him out... cos I don't. But, leaving emotion aside, do I think we could find a better, younger, manager? I think I'd have to say yes.

Is that the same as wanting Kenny out, though? Sure doesn't feel like it.
[/quote]

yeah i'm in your boat
 
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