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Ruthless Liverpool

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rurikbird

Part of the Furniture
Honorary Member
For all the understandable plaudits our front 3 are getting from all quarters for their performance against Porto, for me the most encouraging thing from that game was a sense of control that was missing from similarly spectacular attacking performances against likes of Sevilla, Arsenal and Man City that were spoiled by our inability to manage a lead. This was a complete performance, where every line of the team, from the goalkeeper to the defense, midfield and the attack, dominated their respective opponents and not one player became a weak link.

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There were many elements to this: solid performances by both full-backs (Trent deserves special credit for nullifying Porto's biggest attacking threat in Brahimi), Van Dijk's leadership from the back, improved form of Karius, etc. A good write-up I recommend reading is here. But I want to focus on one element – Milner in place of Coutinho.

We know that for all their attacking talent, Klopp couldn't always find a way to use the "fab four" effectively when they were on the pitch at the same time. At times they were devastating, as against Spartak at home. At other times, the balance was wrong and attack sputtered, like against West Brom in the league and Spartak away. But the most characteristic of the "fab 4" period were performances like Sevilla and Arsenal away when the attack did shine, but on the flip side there was never any sense of control and even a 2 or 3 goal lead never felt secure. For me the common thread in these performances was Coutinho's utter ineffectiveness as soon as the flow of the game turned from us attacking to needing to defend and as Klopp likes to say "suffer." After the UEFA Cup final defeat (which falls in the same category) I posted stats showing that Coutinho had almost no touches in the 2nd half. It was the same in the more recent game against Sevilla – Phil attempted only 2 passes in the 2nd half before being substituted, one of which led to giving away the penalty. Against Arsenal I noticed how he was trying his best to reverse the trend and get on the ball – but he simply couldn't win any 50/50 or even 60/40 duels against physically stronger opponents. As a result it felt like we were playing a man down, our midfield was overrun and the attacking game suddenly disappeared, with Firmino, Salah and Mane forced to drop increasingly deeper to try to change something.

It was a recurring trend that led to accusations that Klopp's Liverpool is a "gung-ho" attacking team, an "all-or-nothing" outfit that was almost a reincarnation of Keagan's Newcastle. You could sense how this line of criticism grated on Klopp; often in press-conferences he would make a reference (usually wrapped in a self-deprecating joke) to the common perception that Liverpool cannot defend or manage a game. Unlike Keegan, he does care about defending; one of his first memorable lines as a Liverpool manager for me was that "in football, as in life, you need to build everything from being secure at the back, 'at home'."

So this brings us back to Milner. Nobody in their right mind would say that he is a better player than Coutinho – but I think it's already clear that at least in some games Milner (or someone else with similar qualities) gives us a better balance as a team. In Klopp's 4-3-3 system, the most advanced of the 3 midfielders needs to have serious playmaking and creative skills in addition to being able to competently defend his assigned area on the right or the left of the sitting midfielder. Phil supplied plenty of the former, but not nearly enough of the latter, which led to the ever-present danger of tables being suddenly turned on us by a capable opponent. Lallana performed in this role very well last season and will probably return to it once he builds up fitness. Ox played there too this season in his own way – not so much playmaking, but at his best creating a bit of useful chaos with his energy and turn of pace. Milner seemed to be on his last legs at times this season and not many people considered him to be a serious option – but to his great credit he stepped up big just when we needed him most.

Klopp turned to Milner after the Swansea and West Brom disasters (in fact Milner and Hendo's cameo against West Brom almost saved that game). He was running the show against Huddersfield and was solid against Spurs. When he started on the bench at Southampton on Sunday, it looked to me like Klopp is saving him for Porto, which turned out to be exactly what it was (his 30-minute cameo vs Saints was again excellent and helped us to manage the 2-goal lead quite comfortably). I thought his Porto performance was one of his very best in the Liverpool shirt; he was everywhere in attack and defense, helping Robertson on the flank one moment and setting up Salah or Firmino the next. His inch-perfect tackle from behind midway through the first half had me off my feet like a goal. And when we took the 2-goal lead, his calm leadership (together with a few others) ensured that Porto didn't get a sniff of getting back into the tie.

Milner might not be a long-term solution in this position, but he deserves huge respect for the way he performed in this last stretch of games and I think it's a lesson that whoever does become a long-term solution will need to have some of the same qualities – not only talent and creativity, but also amazing work-rate and ideally also some leadership. I like this ruthless and pragmatic Klopp team very much and I don't want to go back to the "Keegan's Newcastle" comparisons ever again.
 
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Milner was immense. But for once the game were purely on his premises. He were able to run and cover acres for pressing, outmuscle a weak opposition, and he was buzzing of energy. However, when things are different and we face a different opposition his weaknesses is often exposed and his slower game let's us down.
 
He's definitely our most solid option, very good on and off the ball. The other guys in the middle should be doing all the last ditch stuff that needs pace.
 
I think it needs to be isoltated from domestic performances, however good or bad or bad Porto were, the midfield three wouldnt get the joy the had in the majority of league matches.

The second half against Spurs,even prior to the mad Matip sub, for the nth time, showed how one simple ball bypasses one midfield, Its mainly system issue imo, not a personnel one, imo. Milner deep is preferable though, as hes definitely the most savvy/ least spazzy of our midfield options when receiving the ball deep, under pressure
 
We have had a one match where we have been really clinical and that was Porto, everything we touched went in. Let’s see if are just as clinical over the next few matches before cracking open the champagne.
 
@rurikbird,
That's a very well thought and well written post (like all of your posts).
I enjoy reading g your posts and am happy that we have such a great poster here!

As for Milner, he's a great professional and a true leader. He contributes a lot to the team, always giving 120% and his experience is invaluable. He's been playing very well recently.
I do agree with the comment that sometimes he's out of his depth against some top quality opponents, but overall I'm glad we have him.
 
Hmmm is the saddest, glass-half-emptiest, Eeyore-iest fucking poster on 6CMs. His avatar should be a dark, depressing cloud that's about to throw itself off a cliff. Before gloomily realising that this isn't a viable suicide option for a cloud.

Haha you should attack people more often doc. It´s good for the soul.
 
I think it needs to be isoltated from domestic performances, however good or bad or bad Porto were, the midfield three wouldnt get the joy the had in the majority of league matches.
Correct. We were great but let's face facts, Porto were shit, they'd get relegated from the PL a la Celtic. Like Basel the night before, the Chumps League is shit until the quarters.
 
Why don't they either make the Champions League a league or change it's name to, oh I don't know, the European Cup?
 
Milner is a steady pro, just the type you need in a squad and his experience, intelligence and game management can be vital in the final run-in.

But for us to take the next step up, we desperately need a playmaker in the centre of midfield, who can control the tempo of the game. It's the one area we lack in the squad, an Alonso-type who can retain possession in tight areas and dictate the play while fitting in to the way we attack & defend as a team.

Man City have a few in their line-up with Gundogan and both Silvas while Spurs have Dembele. Arsenal used to have an entire midfield of these players and have now gone back to Wilshire and Ramsey when fit. Man Utd have struggled with the balance of their team since Carrick has been out and Chelsea still have Fabregas but he is slowing down as well.

Henderson does his best in this role and is decent but not top class, his abilities are better suited elsewhere in the side. Can has shown glimpses of developing into that sort of player but he's gone in the summer.

I wondered if Lemar was intended for that slot but if not him, I hope we are on the look-out for someone of that quality who can run the midfield.
 
He's not that type of player. He's B2B not a midfield general. We need another midfielder. As someone said maybe it's Lemar but I've not seen enough of him to say.
Agreed.I'm not sure I'd say a midfield general as such, but someone in. The centre who can control the tempo of the game & in doing do give the defence more time to reset or quickly the release the forwards. We don't have anyone who can do that or anything close, except perhaps Milner when he is having his best of games, which in midfield isn't that often, but when he does he looks almost world class. I suspect he could be a champions league specialist the end of this season.
 
.............Man City have a few in their line-up with Gundogan and both Silvas while Spurs have Dembele. Arsenal used to have an entire midfield of these players and have now gone back to Wilshire and Ramsey when fit. Man Utd have struggled with the balance of their team since Carrick has been out and Chelsea still have Fabregas but he is slowing down as well.
Interesting that you mention Wilshire since there was chatter we were in for him, though I'd guess that's gone now. He's similar to Dembele in some ways, combative, an eye for a pass and holds the midfield together. We are also rumoured to be interested in Wanyama (as are the Mancs and City) who has only started once for Spurs all season. But that's two players that we've purportedly shown interest in that fit the more mobile defensive role Klopp looks to be trying to fill. With Keita and Hendo/Gini/Milner/+1 ahead of a Wanyama-type I'd feel we'd taken a massive step forward.
 
@rurikbird .. very nice thoughtful piece ! As always.

I would pick up on this though ....
for me the most encouraging thing from that game was a sense of control that was missing from similarly spectacular attacking performances against likes of Sevilla, Arsenal and Man City that were spoiled by our inability to manage a lead. This was a complete performance, where every line of the team, from the goalkeeper to the defense, midfield and the attack, dominated their respective opponents and not one player became a weak link.

I agree with everything you said about Coutinho but I'm not sure that this Porto team (missing four starting players ; midfielders Danilo & Andre, a CB ..Felipe .. and their star attacker, Aboubakar) is one which we can use to show progress in this regard. We need to see if our midfield can do it against stronger opposition. The Mancs away are coming up ....
 
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@rurikbird .. very nice thoughtful piece ! As always.

I would pick up on this though ....

I agree with everything you said about Coutinho but I'm not sure that this Porto team (missing four starting players ; midfielders Danilo & Andre, a CB ..Felipe .. and their star attacker, Aboubakar) is one which we can use to show progress in this regard. We need to see if our midfield can do it against stronger opposition. The Mancs away are coming up ....

Absolutely right, there is some progress (Saints away also was a "controlled" performance), but we need to keep doing it. I would love to go to Old Trafford, score however many we need and then cynically shut up shop Mourinho-style – love it!
 
Very much so. For me Froggy's being just a trifle stingy about our Porto performance. It's true that those players were absent, but Porto were at home, they'd been unbeaten for the previous couple of dozen games and this was the kind of fixture in which we might very well have let ourselves down not that long ago. In the circs. to produce not merely a competent performance but one which will have left the rest of Europe wary of playing us is a real statement, IMHO of course.
 
It was a different performance in that I thought we'd come out all guns blazing in the first 15 minutes, whereas we couldn't string three passes together during that initial phase, and once the game settled I thought we'd blown our normal chance of freaking the opposition out and having an away goal already in the bag... but then it all came together with such great effect. Normally when we start slow or our touches are off we don't get very far in the rest of the game. This really encouraged me.
 
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