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She's dead

You don't and certainly Andrew Marr doesn't speak for me; neither of you should ever describe or imply that I or many millions of others are 'the children of Margaret Thatcher'. Keep that title for the followers and brainwashed.

Apologies, as it was not my intention to speak for you.

My point merely was that she had an impact on the UK that very few other Prime Ministers have had. This, of course, is not necessarily a good thing. Some would say it is, and some would say it is a bad thing. My opinion is that she did some good things, some bad things and had some good luck along the way too.
However, the point about 'child of Thatcher' just means that, to an extent, people's lives today were partly conditioned by what she did.

Again, for some this was a positive thing. For others, a nightmare, and as I have said, it is understandable that those people are angry still.

That was all I meant. I have no interest in starting a row about this. If I wanted to do that I would go to Est.
 
The government are apparently spending £5M on the funeral and £5M on security for her fucking funeral.

Just charge everyone 2 quid to get into westminister with a jerry and some matches, much easier.
 
The government are apparently spending £5M on the funeral and £5M on security for her fucking funeral.

Just charge everyone 2 quid to get into westminister with a jerry and some matches, much easier.
Or charge £5 to piss on the grave - a more sustainable revenue stream
 
So, we have the majority of people against thatcher. All of whom live in the north.

Meanwhile we have everyone in the south defending her, at least a lit more so. The only exceptions I can remember are Andy & Pesam, Andy had first hand experience of the north under her (may have lived there at the time, I dunno), I dunno why Pesam is an exception, maybe he will tell us he lived darn sarf during the time.

I am old enough to remember the 1970's and used to watch the news with my Scouse Grandfather (who moved to Dublin in the 1930's) and my Father who, although born in Dublin, was thoroughly Scouse in every way.

My Grandfather always voted Labour and my Father, when he moved back to England in the early 90's, always voted Labour.

My abiding memory of watching the news with them in the 1970's was an overwhelming feeling of hopelessness; it was night-after-night, month-after-month, year-after-year strikes, petrol shortages, electricity blackouts, football violence and more strikes. Britain was a basket case (Ireland was almost as bad but we were a backwater go-nowhere country with no ambition and no hope) and Britain was constantly referred to as "the sick man of Europe".

Prime Ministers were ousted by the power of the Unions (Callaghan & Heath) and the major industries that supposedly turn the wheels of the economy were grinding to a halt. I read recently that most of the major publicly owned enterprises were headed by cherry-picked public school graduates who were totally unsuited to their roles and easily bullied by the Unions.

This is the crux of the problem, When Thatcher was elected she needed to reign-in the Union powers. Unfortuantely the Unions (who aare as guilty as Thatcher for the ensuing debacle) had no intention of relinquishing their power - the government under Thatch and the Union leaders were a million miles apart in terms of goals.

If the Unions had being far less militant and open to negotiation MAYBE as Thatcher overhauled the mining industry, car industrty, ship building etc there could have been a plan to regenerate areas and help people find new jobs. Unfortunately we'll never know because the Unions decided on a fight "to the death" and Thatcher responded.

The unemployment rate in the 1970's was under a million and yet inflation was 15% so people were left feeling a lot poorer despite the fact they had jobs.

I can't defend much of what she did; her defence of Pinochet was abhorrent, the Poll Tax was a fiasco, her handling of the Unions, after she had them beaten, was terrible and her government's collusion with the UVF in Northern Ireland was an atrocity (although we have to accept that she was not alone in this, this type of thing goes on in most countries - governments doing dodgy deals with very unsavoury characters).

However I do think she was a force for good with regards the Eastern bloc countries and she did play an important role in the demise of ruthless communist regimes in some of those countries.

Sorry this reply is a bit "all over the place" but my 2 main points; The Union leaders of the time are as as culpable as Thatcher for the way the Mining Industry, Car Industry etc were broken up and, secondly, I totally understand why some people whose families were devastated by her leadership despise her.
 
I was talking to a mate at the gym last night he is a head teacher at a small primary school and his wife is a diabetic nurse. He said he cannot grumble about the quality of life now since all the changes over last 30 years

Teachers and nurses in the 70s would have been seen as low earners and probably did not enjoy too many
Luxuries. My mate and his missus pull in £85k between then have a big house , two BMWs and holiday abroad twice a year. Most of us could say quality of life and what we own these days is far higher than the 70s. Modern Britain is in much better place for most including a lot of public sector and provides real opportunity for owning a business, self employment having a go yourself

Our public services are good maybe not great we live longer and are protected well. We should feel lucky to live here.
 
Diabetic nurses are band 6/7, relatively high earners

The bulk of nursing staff don't get anywhere near that much.

Also, as part of expanding roles in the NHS, it's not air to compare a diabetic nurse to a nurse back then, as it's only been in recent memory that nurses have started to do job previously only done by doctors
 
Also, "Fox is friends with someone with similar views to him shocker "
 
My friends unemployed and hated thatcher

Argument comfortably countered
 
Diabetic nurses are band 6/7, relatively high earners

The bulk of nursing staff don't get anywhere near that much.

Also, as part of expanding roles in the NHS, it's not air to compare a diabetic nurse to a nurse back then, as it's only been in recent memory that nurses have started to do job previously only done by doctors

All in the name of saving money. Nurses do the jobs doctors used to do but get paid less. Then they wonder why nurses aren't spending time doing things that nurses are supposed to do and patients are suffering because of it.
 
I was talking to a mate at the gym last night he is a head teacher at a small primary school and his wife is a diabetic nurse. He said he cannot grumble about the quality of life now since all the changes over last 30 years

Teachers and nurses in the 70s would have been seen as low earners and probably did not enjoy too many
Luxuries. My mate and his missus pull in £85k between then have a big house , two BMWs and holiday abroad twice a year. Most of us could say quality of life and what we own these days is far higher than the 70s. Modern Britain is in much better place for most including a lot of public sector and provides real opportunity for owning a business, self employment having a go yourself

Our public services are good maybe not great we live longer and are protected well. We should feel lucky to live here.

Out of interest Fox where do your friends reside ?
 
I was talking to a mate at the gym last night he is a head teacher at a small primary school and his wife is a diabetic nurse. He said he cannot grumble about the quality of life now since all the changes over last 30 years

Teachers and nurses in the 70s would have been seen as low earners and probably did not enjoy too many
Luxuries. My mate and his missus pull in £85k between then have a big house , two BMWs and holiday abroad twice a year. Most of us could say quality of life and what we own these days is far higher than the 70s. Modern Britain is in much better place for most including a lot of public sector and provides real opportunity for owning a business, self employment having a go yourself

Our public services are good maybe not great we live longer and are protected well. We should feel lucky to live here.
Fox your middle class tory friends with their degree education are not representative of the majority of those who detest Thatcher.
Its a very strange point you are trying to make.
 
Where I live there probably arent many tory haters either.
Still I can only hope to educate them.
 
Fox your middle class tory friends with their degree education are not representative of the majority of those who detest Thatcher.
Its a very strange point you are trying to make.

He's talking utter ignorant bollocks. Teacher's were never at the lowest end of the pay scale, nurses have often suffered but the medical industry, doctors and specialists in particular, now rake it in through private appointments and are not on unreasonable pay through the NHS in comparison to other jobs (you could argue they should be paid more because of the nature of their skills though).

"My mates got two BMW's and a nice house" so ergo we're better off now. No were not. Come and stay in Runcorn, or Widnes or much of Liverpool in a B&B and have a look at the quality of life, the quality of suburban housing and the standards that we STILL live in - unemployment, crime and overcrowding is rife.

Like I said earlier, I do work for practitioners on Harley Street and throughout London on a fraction of what they would be paying someone closer to their home. So while they at the higher end are getting paid more than what a practitioner gets here - and believe me Fox, they do because the clientele are of a financially sound standing compared to here, they still do private work to boost the coffers and then employ a PA from the North so they pay at least a third of the wage. You sound like a typical ignorant rich kid who doesn't know any better. That's fine in itself, I don't expect you to feel guilty about what you earn, but don't tell us how better off we are as a country, using your own comfort as a standard - it's not.
 
, self employment having a go yourself

Our public services are good maybe not great we live longer and are protected well. We should feel lucky to live here.

And, as a contractor, avoid paying as much tax as you can.

Plus public services are fucking terrible and much worse.

We live longer due to advancement in medicine and science and that's no thanks to Thatcher under whom the decline of the NHS started
 
Labour poured billions and billions extra into the NHS. If it's not the great service we'd like then it's not because of Thatcher or a lack of money.
 
That's because preserving their political party becomes the overriding goal above all else, including what's best for the country.
 
That's because preserving their political party becomes the overriding goal above all else, including what's best for the country.
It's going on in Germany at present; Merkel faces a general election in 5 months time and has to pander to domestic policy/groups in order to get re-elected. Meanwhile the European financial mess is left in limbo because of her inaction. I reckon within a couple of weeks of re-election (if,as seems likely, she gets re-elected) Germany will finally agree to some form of Eurobonds and the economies in Southern European countries will finally have a platform from which to begin growing their economies again.
 
Also, "Fox is friends with someone with similar views to him shocker "

mate you are having a laugh, they are huge labour supporters. But like Tony blair on the radio today they respect that the country is a better place to live with lots of opportunities for people who want to go for it .

They never agree with me on politics, I always take the piss out of them as they talk like a union leader about how unfair the govt is on public servants then I remind them that they are doing ok

We don't agree on much politically so shove that up your fat arse 🙄
 
mate you are having a laugh, they are huge labour supporters. But like Tony blair on the radio today they respect that the country is a better place to live with lots of opportunities for people who want to go for it .

They never agree with me on politics, I always take the piss out of them as they talk like a union leader about how unfair the govt is on public servants then I remind them that they are doing ok

We don't agree on much politically so shove that up your fat arse 🙄

If you don't understand that Tony Blair is a product of Thatcher there's not much hope.
 
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