She's dead
- Thread starter jexykrodic
- Start date
- Latest activity Latest activity:
Nowhere near this . There is only one person I take this much pleasure in . I will not be out celebrating when he goes .
Thought this day couldn't really improve until I found the hash tag #tweetyourphiljonesface on twitter.
Incredibly he chose to highlight his features by shaving the lower half of his head. someone should tell him.
The Thatcher Mix:
1. Klaus Nomi – Ding Dong, The Witch Is Dead
2. Hefner – The Day That Thatcher Dies
3. The Blow Monkeys – (Celebrate) The Day After You
4. Elvis Costello – Tramp The Dirt Down
5. Billy Bragg – Between The Wars
6. Morrissey – Margaret On The Guillotine
7. The The – Heartland
8. Fine Young Cannibals – Blue
9. Madness – Blue Skinned Beast
10. Style Council – The Lodgers (Or She Was Only A Shopkeeper’s Daughter)
11. The Specials – Ghost Town
12. The Beat – Stand Down Margaret
13. Robert Wyatt – Shipbuilding
14. Pink Floyd – The Fletcher Memorial Home
15. Richard Thompson – Mother Knows Best
16. Renaud – Madame Thatcher
17. UB40 – Madam Medusa
18. Pete Wylie – The Day That Margaret Thatcher Dies
19. Poison Girls – Another Hero
20. Sinead O’Connor – Black Boys On Mopeds
Nicked from
http://www.halfhearteddude.com/2013/04/the-thatcher-mix/
1. Klaus Nomi – Ding Dong, The Witch Is Dead
2. Hefner – The Day That Thatcher Dies
3. The Blow Monkeys – (Celebrate) The Day After You
4. Elvis Costello – Tramp The Dirt Down
5. Billy Bragg – Between The Wars
6. Morrissey – Margaret On The Guillotine
7. The The – Heartland
8. Fine Young Cannibals – Blue
9. Madness – Blue Skinned Beast
10. Style Council – The Lodgers (Or She Was Only A Shopkeeper’s Daughter)
11. The Specials – Ghost Town
12. The Beat – Stand Down Margaret
13. Robert Wyatt – Shipbuilding
14. Pink Floyd – The Fletcher Memorial Home
15. Richard Thompson – Mother Knows Best
16. Renaud – Madame Thatcher
17. UB40 – Madam Medusa
18. Pete Wylie – The Day That Margaret Thatcher Dies
19. Poison Girls – Another Hero
20. Sinead O’Connor – Black Boys On Mopeds
Nicked from
http://www.halfhearteddude.com/2013/04/the-thatcher-mix/
To be fair, I guess there is no evidence she was a rapist. But I stand to be corrected
a master stroke
I totally understand why some people are pleased that Thatch is dead. Lots of people really suffered in the 1980s, and just because time has passed and she has gone there is no reason why they should be expected to forgive and forget.
It will surprise no one that I am not celebrating of course and on the whole I think she did a good job. Britain was on its knees when she took over, she improved our position around the world, took power back from the unions and left us in a far better position than we were in when she started.
I don't agree with all of her methods by any means, but things had to change, and ultimately she won three general elections convincingly, she didn't seize power by force.
In Andrew Marr's History of Modern Britain a few years back (which is a very balanced account that is worth watching) he summed things up by saying 'she still defines the country we still live in today. we are none of us Wilson's children, or Heath's children, or Major's or Blair's. We are all of us, like it or not, rebel or not, the children of Margaret Thatcher'.
This is true, and shows the impact that she had. Whatever you think of her, she actually got things done, whereas many other Prime Ministers, and certainly the ones since her, do a lot more talking than doing.
It will surprise no one that I am not celebrating of course and on the whole I think she did a good job. Britain was on its knees when she took over, she improved our position around the world, took power back from the unions and left us in a far better position than we were in when she started.
I don't agree with all of her methods by any means, but things had to change, and ultimately she won three general elections convincingly, she didn't seize power by force.
In Andrew Marr's History of Modern Britain a few years back (which is a very balanced account that is worth watching) he summed things up by saying 'she still defines the country we still live in today. we are none of us Wilson's children, or Heath's children, or Major's or Blair's. We are all of us, like it or not, rebel or not, the children of Margaret Thatcher'.
This is true, and shows the impact that she had. Whatever you think of her, she actually got things done, whereas many other Prime Ministers, and certainly the ones since her, do a lot more talking than doing.
She never won a majority of the electorate - I know thats the British political system & no party has ever received > 50% vote, but if such an argument can be used to justify the demise of the Big Sam stickie here then so it can be used to argue Thatcher did not "win" the popular vote
It makes me laugh that the tories and their brain-dead redtop paper love to whine about 'broken britain', a Britain in which social decay is rife, public spiritedness waning, 'community' an anachronism. Yes, well there's your Thatcher's children, that's the legacy of her assault on the mechanisms and industries though which the working class cultures were sustained. So next time a tory whines about Broken Britain, tell them they fucking broke it. She broke it.
Alot of people in power have "got things done" though Richey, being the most powerful Prime Minister of our generation doesn't equate to being right or justifiable - stamping her authority on the country to a degree that it will and has echoed for years after her leadership.. Whatever the ultimate and inevitable fate of mining and other industries, taking power away from the people doesn't make it fair nor a symbol of a 'good' reign, she didn't just shift the balance, she took away people's rights and their dignity.
[Godwin]I knew of a German chap that "got things done"[/Godwin]
She took away people's livelihoods and plummeted the average family into benefit doldrums. Breeding a generation that didn't know any better, and her party now aim to crush what is left of that generation, while it's children, "Thatcher's children" are stuck in an era of poor wages, limited opportunities and a country that's again on the verge of chaos. The ripples are still being felt 30 years on. People have argued in this thread that her cabinet were powerful and had as much if not more of a say, yet offer her as some symbol of power of the likes we've not seen before or since. Make up your fucking mind. The rich still get richer and are protected by the establishment she helped forge, while society and all of it's rights that were snatched away continue to suffer.
We have 20% VAT, workers with virtually no support against their employers and stuck in unfairly paid jobs, spiraling council tax fees that continue to pay for a questionable public service, a destroyed NHS, education that's becoming more and more privatised and arguably less competitive, a crippling unemployment figure, out of control immigration that no one wants to tackle and armed forces stretched beyond it's means. That's her fantastic legacy.
We have 20% VAT, workers with virtually no support against their employers and stuck in unfairly paid jobs, spiraling council tax fees that continue to pay for a questionable public service, a destroyed NHS, education that's becoming more and more privatised and arguably less competitive, a crippling unemployment figure, out of control immigration that no one wants to tackle and armed forces stretched beyond it's means. That's her fantastic legacy.
That's what I was thinking. Hell would have kicked off if she had died.
Although was that before or after the Anglo-Irish agreement? She was hated for a while after that.
We have 20% VAT, workers with virtually no support against their employers and stuck in unfairly paid jobs, spiraling council tax fees that continue to pay for a questionable public service, a destroyed NHS, education that's becoming more and more privatised and arguably less competitive, a crippling unemployment figure, out of control immigration that no one wants to tackle and armed forces stretched beyond it's means. That's her fantastic legacy.[/quote]
Good post Mark. What I don't understand is why all of thatchers terrible decisions you mention above have never been reversed or changed even after 13 years of labour.
Good post Mark. What I don't understand is why all of thatchers terrible decisions you mention above have never been reversed or changed even after 13 years of labour.
She actually made the ordinary person much more powerful. And again, not sure what is so dignified about living off subsidised industries that wouldn't exist if not for the government confiscating money from your fellow man and directing it at you.
Well that's a bit like saying anyone who works in the public sector has a job that isn't dignified.
That's probably exactly what Peter is saying
You could counter that argument by re-stating many of the other effects of her reign, immigration wasn't and still isn't tackled head on, so we have an inflated population with spiraling council tax fees and a housing shortage, one of the most expensive public transport systems in Europe and an NHS that's crippled - a system we (well me and no doubt many others on here) continue to struggle under.
Made the ordinary person more powerful? She made the ordinary person more self reliant in a an environment and economy that's less and less rewarding and more and more competitive. A tramp on the street is self reliant, it doesn't make the system or conditions he exists under any more fair.
Problem is public sector costs and private pays corporation tax.
It's a straight choice between whether you prefer a larger of smaller state. One way should be the labour way one way the Tories unless you are Tony Blair who sits in the middle of everything to please most.
I was quote amazed at the amount of high praise he have Maggie yesterday
It's a straight choice between whether you prefer a larger of smaller state. One way should be the labour way one way the Tories unless you are Tony Blair who sits in the middle of everything to please most.
I was quote amazed at the amount of high praise he have Maggie yesterday
Daily Mail going with 'thatcher saved football' outrageous..
On no she didn't
As a nation absorbed Monday's monumental news, the flags at Buckingham Palace were respectfully fluttering at half-mast, the TV stations were flooded with warm tributes and the newspapers cleared their front pages to mark the passing of a political giant. But football, unusually, stayed mute.
The national sport is not always so reluctant to honour the dead. Minute's silences are usually offered enthusiastically, while Remembrance Day poppies have become a matter to go to war with FIFA over. Yet the death of Margaret Thatcher elicited nothing but stony silence.
The Premier League decided against asking Manchester United and Manchester City to observe a minute's silence - perhaps imagining the response from notable socialist Sir Alex Ferguson - while the Football Association has reportedly done likewise ahead of the weekend's FA Cup semi-finals at Wembley. Choosing not to mark the death of a figure who is to be granted a ceremonial funeral, with military honours, is rather notable.
The Daily Mail, rather predictably, has referred to the decision to ignore Thatcher's passing as a 'Shameful snub to lady who saved English football', but the truth is rather different. Football can be forgiven if it fails to react to the passing of the most divisive political figure of the post-war period.
Strange as it may seem in an era when football holds politicians in its thrall, providing the perfect ground on which to seamlessly identify with common folk, Thatcher and her colleagues seemed to hold the sport, and more specifically its supporters, in contempt. There were no games of head tennis with Kevin Keegan, a la Tony Blair; no trips to help England try and secure hosting rights for a World Cup finals, as David Cameron did when forming a luckless triumvirate with David Beckham and Prince William.
While politicians now seek to latch on to football, then they seemed to want to disown it.It is right that we should not speak ill of the dead, but it is also important that a genuine appraisal of their life is offered.
Given the huge impact Thatcher had on all levels on English society and global politics, this may be a minor, parochial portion of such an appraisal, but it is still worth recording that her government's attitude to football was disdainful and at times antagonistic. The modern game's evolution into a supporter-friendly, sanitised consumer experience where a global brand will pay £150 million to sponsor a training ground is a galaxy away from football's dark days under the Thatcher government.The death of 39 fans at Heysel - after some Liverpool supporters charged at their Juventus counterparts and a wall collapsed - was clearly reprehensible.
Thatcher fully backed the subsequent ban on English clubs competing in Europe, and few could argue with her assessment that those directly involved "brought shame and disgrace to their country and to football. We have to get the game cleaned up from this hooliganism."Heysel was the worst instance of supporter misbehaviour at this time and there is no doubt that English football had a very big problem in the 80s.
Yet the response of the Thatcher government was apparently to attack all football supporters, to demonise normal fans. Very real concerns over very real incidents of extreme violence and hooliganism were used to brand a whole demographic as troublemakers, the vast majority of whom were, as they are now, merely interested in watching their team play on a Saturday.
It was her government who tried to instigate a compulsory ID card scheme for all football fans - which would have been the first such repressive system in Europe. The Labour party described the proposal as "an offence against common decency." Many of those in positions of authority were minded to contain and control football supporters.
Safety had gradually become a secondary concern - a state of affairs that had deadly consequences.The Bradford Fire claimed 56 lives in 1985 after a wooden stand caught alight due to a dangerous build-up of rubbish underneath it. Then, in 1989, came Hillsborough, when the negligence of the Police resulted in the deaths of 96 Liverpool supporters.
Hillsborough, more than any other issue or event, explains football's reluctance to join in the mourning process today. It was the government's own Police who were responsible for all those deaths.
Disgustingly, having tested the dead bodies for traces of alcohol in vain hope of evidence to discredit those who had just been crushed to death, the authorities then embarked on an extensive cover-up and smear campaign, resulting in possibly the most abominable miscarriage of justice in British history as ordinary, innocent fans were told they were the culpable ones.
Only last year were Liverpool fans finally offered a formal apology by the British government. The lies and slurs had persisted for 23 long and painful years.Liverpool fans used to display a banner that read, 'Expose the lies before Thatcher dies' - and the families did just that, finally beginning to heal a huge wound inflicted on British society.
The publication of the Hillsborough Independent Panel report in September did not contain a 'smoking gun' that some had suspected might implicate Thatcher. As yet there is no evidence that she played any part in the cover-up beyond being fed the Police line.But the events of Hillsborough and the smear campaign that followed were born of a culture that depicted football fans as an ungovernable and irredeemable hooligan mass.
The government of the time allowed untruth to take hold and allowed the Police to act with apparent impunity.By 1990, the year of Thatcher's inglorious exit from Downing Street, the mood in football was changing. The Taylor Report, published in January in response to the events at Hillsborough, would result in all-seater stadiums and the gentrification of the national sport, eventually allowing it to become a global marketing behemoth. But lamentably it took the death of 96 supporters before the authorities would make the changes needed to keep supporters safe.
Meanwhile, in July of 1990, football enjoyed an emotional redemption to match its structural one when Paul Gascoigne broke out in tears deep into the night in Turin and Bobby Robson's brave Lions were vanquished by Germany in a penalty shoot-out defeat that left a nation distraught, but once again ready to welcome football back to its bosom.
Pete Davies - in his majestic 'All Played Out', which chronicles Italia '90 - poignantly captures the prevailing attitude of the time, when the Thatcher government showed such contempt for football fans and at one stage even considered withdrawing from the World Cup altogether.
Of England's glorious failure, he writes: "It wasn't just the fact we got to the semi-final, it was the nature of the journey and the transformation of the image of the game and the centrality of Paul Gascoigne – the fact we evolved into a team that played some really beautiful, heroic football and the fact that the nation was able to gather around that. It was an awful time – poll-tax riots, Thatcher at the fag end of her premiership, recession. What sort of state was England in? But the England team brought everyone together."Without question, 1990 was a year that changed English football, and England, forever. As Thatcher left office, football was simultaneously freed from the shackles that restrained it.- - -
On no she didn't
As a nation absorbed Monday's monumental news, the flags at Buckingham Palace were respectfully fluttering at half-mast, the TV stations were flooded with warm tributes and the newspapers cleared their front pages to mark the passing of a political giant. But football, unusually, stayed mute.
The national sport is not always so reluctant to honour the dead. Minute's silences are usually offered enthusiastically, while Remembrance Day poppies have become a matter to go to war with FIFA over. Yet the death of Margaret Thatcher elicited nothing but stony silence.
The Premier League decided against asking Manchester United and Manchester City to observe a minute's silence - perhaps imagining the response from notable socialist Sir Alex Ferguson - while the Football Association has reportedly done likewise ahead of the weekend's FA Cup semi-finals at Wembley. Choosing not to mark the death of a figure who is to be granted a ceremonial funeral, with military honours, is rather notable.
The Daily Mail, rather predictably, has referred to the decision to ignore Thatcher's passing as a 'Shameful snub to lady who saved English football', but the truth is rather different. Football can be forgiven if it fails to react to the passing of the most divisive political figure of the post-war period.
Strange as it may seem in an era when football holds politicians in its thrall, providing the perfect ground on which to seamlessly identify with common folk, Thatcher and her colleagues seemed to hold the sport, and more specifically its supporters, in contempt. There were no games of head tennis with Kevin Keegan, a la Tony Blair; no trips to help England try and secure hosting rights for a World Cup finals, as David Cameron did when forming a luckless triumvirate with David Beckham and Prince William.
While politicians now seek to latch on to football, then they seemed to want to disown it.It is right that we should not speak ill of the dead, but it is also important that a genuine appraisal of their life is offered.
Given the huge impact Thatcher had on all levels on English society and global politics, this may be a minor, parochial portion of such an appraisal, but it is still worth recording that her government's attitude to football was disdainful and at times antagonistic. The modern game's evolution into a supporter-friendly, sanitised consumer experience where a global brand will pay £150 million to sponsor a training ground is a galaxy away from football's dark days under the Thatcher government.The death of 39 fans at Heysel - after some Liverpool supporters charged at their Juventus counterparts and a wall collapsed - was clearly reprehensible.
Thatcher fully backed the subsequent ban on English clubs competing in Europe, and few could argue with her assessment that those directly involved "brought shame and disgrace to their country and to football. We have to get the game cleaned up from this hooliganism."Heysel was the worst instance of supporter misbehaviour at this time and there is no doubt that English football had a very big problem in the 80s.
Yet the response of the Thatcher government was apparently to attack all football supporters, to demonise normal fans. Very real concerns over very real incidents of extreme violence and hooliganism were used to brand a whole demographic as troublemakers, the vast majority of whom were, as they are now, merely interested in watching their team play on a Saturday.
It was her government who tried to instigate a compulsory ID card scheme for all football fans - which would have been the first such repressive system in Europe. The Labour party described the proposal as "an offence against common decency." Many of those in positions of authority were minded to contain and control football supporters.
Safety had gradually become a secondary concern - a state of affairs that had deadly consequences.The Bradford Fire claimed 56 lives in 1985 after a wooden stand caught alight due to a dangerous build-up of rubbish underneath it. Then, in 1989, came Hillsborough, when the negligence of the Police resulted in the deaths of 96 Liverpool supporters.
Hillsborough, more than any other issue or event, explains football's reluctance to join in the mourning process today. It was the government's own Police who were responsible for all those deaths.
Disgustingly, having tested the dead bodies for traces of alcohol in vain hope of evidence to discredit those who had just been crushed to death, the authorities then embarked on an extensive cover-up and smear campaign, resulting in possibly the most abominable miscarriage of justice in British history as ordinary, innocent fans were told they were the culpable ones.
Only last year were Liverpool fans finally offered a formal apology by the British government. The lies and slurs had persisted for 23 long and painful years.Liverpool fans used to display a banner that read, 'Expose the lies before Thatcher dies' - and the families did just that, finally beginning to heal a huge wound inflicted on British society.
The publication of the Hillsborough Independent Panel report in September did not contain a 'smoking gun' that some had suspected might implicate Thatcher. As yet there is no evidence that she played any part in the cover-up beyond being fed the Police line.But the events of Hillsborough and the smear campaign that followed were born of a culture that depicted football fans as an ungovernable and irredeemable hooligan mass.
The government of the time allowed untruth to take hold and allowed the Police to act with apparent impunity.By 1990, the year of Thatcher's inglorious exit from Downing Street, the mood in football was changing. The Taylor Report, published in January in response to the events at Hillsborough, would result in all-seater stadiums and the gentrification of the national sport, eventually allowing it to become a global marketing behemoth. But lamentably it took the death of 96 supporters before the authorities would make the changes needed to keep supporters safe.
Meanwhile, in July of 1990, football enjoyed an emotional redemption to match its structural one when Paul Gascoigne broke out in tears deep into the night in Turin and Bobby Robson's brave Lions were vanquished by Germany in a penalty shoot-out defeat that left a nation distraught, but once again ready to welcome football back to its bosom.
Pete Davies - in his majestic 'All Played Out', which chronicles Italia '90 - poignantly captures the prevailing attitude of the time, when the Thatcher government showed such contempt for football fans and at one stage even considered withdrawing from the World Cup altogether.
Of England's glorious failure, he writes: "It wasn't just the fact we got to the semi-final, it was the nature of the journey and the transformation of the image of the game and the centrality of Paul Gascoigne – the fact we evolved into a team that played some really beautiful, heroic football and the fact that the nation was able to gather around that. It was an awful time – poll-tax riots, Thatcher at the fag end of her premiership, recession. What sort of state was England in? But the England team brought everyone together."Without question, 1990 was a year that changed English football, and England, forever. As Thatcher left office, football was simultaneously freed from the shackles that restrained it.- - -
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked
- Locked
