She's dead

[mark1975]

I've worked for the Civil Service 20 years ago doing a job less demanding and better paid than the one I do now (without even considering inflation). When I was last looking for work the competition was high (upto 500applications on some) and the wage was piss poor. I'm fairly well educated and have reasonably extensive experience in different sectors. I'm currently doing PA work for a practitioner on Harley Street and getting not just more than minimum wage. He's not the only one utilising similar services, because we're paid about a third of what he'd pay for a secretary in London, that's the scale of wage difference that he's exploiting. He's currently enjoying his second skiing holiday so far this year. Fair play to him.

 

[peterhague]

Well that's a bit like saying anyone who works in the public sector has a job that isn't dignified.

No it's not, although of course there are many like that.

 

[The Bandit]

She actually made the ordinary person much more powerful. And again, not sure what is so dignified about living off subsidised industries that wouldn't exist if not for the government confiscating money from your fellow man and directing it at you.

of course having nothing is even better

oh and cheaper for you.


*only one of those statements is true

 

[singlerider]

Problem is public sector costs and private pays corporation tax.

It's a straight choice between whether you prefer a larger of smaller state. One way should be the labour way one way the Tories unless you are Tony Blair who sits in the middle of everything to please most.

I was quote amazed at the amount of high praise he have Maggie yesterday

Well, ignoring the prospect that actually they may or may not pay corporation tax, this very much depends on the context, as often work is not carried out by the public sector itself, but rather subcontracted out.

Then you have to consider that the private sector is run for profit, and so will increase their prices accordingly, whereas the public sector is not as driven by that motive, hence can actually be subsidised. So even though you might say "public sector costs money" the reality is we might end paying more for private

 

[Sunny]

http://m.motherjones.com/mojo/2013/04/margaret-thatcher-death-obit

Bursting the Thatcher Bubble


By David Corn on Mon. April 8, 2013 10:00 AM PDT

Martin Argles/eyevine/ZUMAPress​

The canonization of Margaret Thatcher began with nanoseconds of news reports that the former British prime minister and conservative icon had died at the age of 87. On MSNBC, my pal Chuck Todd remarked, "We lionize her over here." There was insta-commentary about how she saved Britain from economic despair and the rest of the world from the Soviets (with some help from a guy named Ronald Reagan). Excess ruled. Two small examples: Elizabeth Colbert Busch, the Democrat running for Congress in South Carolina (and sister of Stephen Colbert) issued this statement: "When I talk to younger women about their careers, I point to Margaret Thatcher as a role model; she's a tough consensus builder who cared about everybody and put her country's fiscal house in order." Rep. Steve Stockman (R-Texas) proclaimed,

Baroness Thatcher's record of creating explosive economic growth and a stronger nation by embracing conservative values makes the utter failure of Obama's stale liberalism starker and more disturbing…She is still hated by leftists who would rather live in equalized misery than allow people to achieve as much as they can work for, leftists who now hold the levers of government in the United States…While many mourn, Baroness Thatcher reminded us "I fight on I fight to win." The best way to honor Baroness Thatcher is to crush liberalism and sweep it into the dustbin of history. What are you doing this morning to defeat liberal politicians?​

Thatcher was no consensus builder; she was divisive. She set out to crush unions, privatize, undercut the social safety net (where she could), and push free-market policies that led to the deregulatory nightmares of the future. (Just watch Billy Elliot—or listen to the Clash.) She joined with Reagan in support of torturers and human rights abusers around the globe, as long as these folks were opposed to the Soviets. She called Nelson Mandela a "terrorist" and would not join the worldwide crusade against the racist apartheid regime of South Africa. (In 2006, Conservative Party leader David Cameron felt obliged to disown Thatcher's and his party's previous opposition to Mandela and his African National Congress.) She supported Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet. Her war in the Falklands struck many as an orchestrated stunt, not an act of necessity—though some have seen that military action as a noble blow against Argentina's fascist junta (which the Reagan administration was supporting).
Her economic policies were harsh. She pushed the so-called poll tax—a tax to fund local government—that resulted in shifting the tax burden from the well-to-do toward lower-income Brits. This tax provoked riots—literally—and was so unpopular that her successor, John Major, replaced it. And as Bruce Bartlett, an economist who served in the Reagan administration noted two years ago, Thatcher shifted the overall tax burden from top to bottom. She cut the top personal income tax rate from 83 percent to 60 percent, but raised the lowest rate from 25 percent to 30 percent. To pay for her tax cuts, she nearly doubled the value-added tax from 8 percent to 15 percent. (Some American conservative economists howled about this.) As Bartlett put it, "Thatcher's fiscal accomplishments were much more modest than many of today's Republicans think." (Here's a quick assessment of her overall economic policies.)
A long obit in the Guardian by Michael White cites her "willpower and courage" and maintains that Thatcherism "changed the way Britons viewed politics and economics, as well as the way the country was regarded around the world." But the article notes certain facts necessary for any balanced appraisal:

• As education secretary—prior to becoming prime minister—she cut school milk for elementary school children and won her first nickname, "Thatcher the milk snatcher."
• She pushed "a high-risk, deregulated market-orientated system in which the poverty gap widened rapidly and 'loadsamoney' rewards at the top rocketed in ways frowned upon in Europe and Japan. With 'big bang' deregulation…in 1986 paralleling developments in Ronald Reagan's United States, the path was open to the financial crisis that engulfed Anglo-Saxon capitalism in 2007."
• She defeated the unions—especially the miners, in a series of challenges. But most deep-mine pits in England ended up closing.
• She brooked little criticism. She sacked party members who questioned her divisive practices: "'Is he one of us?' became a stock Thatcher question, asked of impartial civil servants and even would-be bishops."
• Her political career essentially ended when her own Cabinet told her that due to the unpopularity of her policies she should step down and allow another Conservative Party member to lead their party.

Thatcher was a historic figure. But that does not mean she was a great leader. (For a vitriolic assessment of her years in power, read this.) She was not the total conservative that American right-wingers have worshipped for years. She regarded climate change as a serious threat. Her government moved early against HIV/AIDS and outlawed corporal punishment. But in the aftermath of the demise of the Iron Lady, the first woman to become a British prime minister is generally being lauded from the US right and the middle as a hero for her country and the globe. This Thatcher bubble will not last forever.
UPDATE: This article neglected to mention Thatcher's support for the Khmer Rouge.

 

[StevieM]

Effectively, a borderline sociopath was running the country when difficult decisions needed to be made.

She not only made said decisions, but positively revelled in them, crushing anyone or anything that stood in her way, regardless of the effect.

The end results were mixed, because some things improved, other facets of society where destroyed. A necessary evil or a vindictive, spiteful old hag? Probably a bit of both.

The only thing that sticks out from my memories from the early 80's is, whatever demon she may have been, there was no one else that seemed capable of leading the country at that particular time.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

"She called Nelson Mandela a "terrorist" and would not join the worldwide crusade against the racist apartheid regime of South Africa."

What do people think about what De Klerk (who helped end Apartheid) said about Thatcher?

 

[Sunny]

"She called Nelson Mandela a "terrorist" and would not join the worldwide crusade against the racist apartheid regime of South Africa."

What do people think about what De Klerk (who helped end Apartheid) said about Thatcher?

Well tell us what he said and we might be able to give you an opinion.

 

[Oncy]

Well it was a fun day. But im done.
Some aul dead cunt will occupy no more of my thinking.
So long Margaret. Im glad that youre dead.

'Well I hope that you die. And your death will come soon (result) I'll follow your casket, on a pale afternoon, and i'll watch while youre lowered, down to your death bed. And i'll stand over your grave till im sure that youre dead'

 

[LeTallecWiz]

Well tell us what he said and we might be able to give you an opinion.

Thatcher played a positive role in South Africa: de Klerk

Sapa | 08 April, 2013 17:03

Nelson Mandela (R) is greeted by then British Prime Minister Margarat Thatcher prior to their talks, at 10 Downing Street in this July 4, 1990 file photo. Former British Prime Minister Thatcher has died following a stroke, a spokesman for the family said.
Image by: RUSSELL BOYCE / Reuters
Former British prime minister Margaret Thatcher had a better grasp of the complexities and geo-strategic realities of South Africa than many of her contemporaries, former president FW de Klerk said on Monday.

0

inShare​

A steadfast critic of apartheid, she had consistently and correctly believed that much more could be achieved through constructive engagement with the South African government than through draconian sanctions and isolation, De Klerk said in a statement.
She had understood the need to consider the concerns and aspirations of all South Africans in their search for constitutional consensus.

"For this reason, she was able to play a positive role in supporting our own process of non-racial constitutional transformation in South Africa," he said.

Thatcher died of a stroke on Monday morning, at the age of 87.

"She will be remembered not only as one of Britain's greatest prime ministers, but also as a leader whose policies and approach had a significant impact on politics throughout the world," De Klerk said.

From his first meeting with Thatcher in London in 1989 until the end of her tenure as prime minister, she gave strong and valued support to him and all other leaders working for a peaceful, prosperous, and constitutional future for South Africa.

"We met in the Cape and in London many times after her retirement from office, and before her stroke in 2002. I am honoured to have had Margaret Thatcher as a friend," he said.

Thatcher served as British prime minister from 1979 to 1990.

 

[Sunny]

Errr...whoopee ?

 

[The Bandit]

interesting that she thought constructive dialogue was the answer there but didnt seem to think it the answer to anything over here.

 

[ILD]

Best Match Thread Ever.

 

[ILD]

@QUADRASPAZ

Where the fook you been? Thatcher dies and Spaz returns..

Wonder who will have to die next to coax QUADRASPAZ out of posting retirement? Awful shame he hung up his fingers.

On a side note I wonder who would win a celebratory death match between Thatcher and Hitler?

*Cough* Godwin's law * cough.

 

[ILD]

Finally, a special mention to Gene Hughes for trolling the shit out of this thread. Amazing work. Like button overload.The return of the king (s) also brought a tear to my eye. Skulf, QUADRASPAZ and Themn.Thatcher's death is 6CM's gain.

P.S. Can we ban all wine talk or even open a private thread for all the wine plebs (winkey face) to post in. Perhaps call it the wine vault or something shit like that. Also can one of the mods change the word wine to spunk or something lame like that. I haven't thought this through so bear with me but surely some posts will improve due to the fact Stevie and the boys will be making posts about how they are currently cracking open a bottle of french spunk that was simply begging to be drank. Anthropomorphizing pricks. 😉

 

[Judge Jules]

Well, ignoring the prospect that actually they may or may not pay corporation tax, this very much depends on the context, as often work is not carried out by the public sector itself, but rather subcontracted out.

Then you have to consider that the private sector is run for profit, and so will increase their prices accordingly, whereas the public sector is not as driven by that motive, hence can actually be subsidised. So even though you might say "public sector costs money" the reality is we might end paying more for private

*Will* end up paying more for private, and less of it at that, because private provision prioritises the interests of shareholders and others looking to make money out of whatever type of work may be involved. This is before we even get to the question of what happens to a vital service when a private provider goes belly-up, let alone the question whether there'll even be any such service if/when the work involved turns out not to be a moneymaking proposition at all.

I don't actually think privatisation as a default approach to the provision of public services will survive over the longer term. In the final analysis market priorities and fluctuations are simply not compatible with the provision of essential public services to a decent standard. All of us will increasingly be faced with having to choose whether we want those services or not. I think the decision will be that we do, and I think the consequence of that will be the reinvention of the wheel where public services are concerned. The tragedy is that uncountable numbers of lives and incalculable amounts of resources will have been wasted dismantling those services in the first place for the sake of profit.

 

[Jack D Rips]

Have to say, the only shame is that Margaret Thatcher died in her home this morning, rather than in a Brighton Hotel 30 years ago.

She actually died in a luxury suite in the Ritz hotel.

 

[jexykrodic]

As much as I fucking hate her and everything she stood for, I don't think there's that much worth celebrating.

Look around.

She won

Nah, I think we've all lost SR, we've lost our skills base; outsourced it all. Communities lost, replaced by no go areas or ghetto's and an every man for himself mentality. Total apathy toward our Parliamentary representatives and non-cooperation with the Police we pay for. Christ we don't even bother to report crime now. All her legacy.

Now we're all engaged in selling insurance policies to one another, then claiming against each other on said policies. Either that or getting duped into pyramid selling schemes we don't understand because we think we'll get rich on it (ha ha) only for the schemes to be defrauded or otherwise mismanaged by the 'bankers' she gave full licence to do as they wished. They got greedy, we got greedy; surprise surprise..

I'll agree that she picked her targets well and won a pyrrhic victory by cowing opposition but dogma always ends in ruin.

Now how do we prosper? by selling houses at inflated prices to bargain hunters from abroad who come sniffing attracted by tax breaks. Or inventing stuff that we hand over to other countries to make because we can't import enough skilled worker from abroad to do it here.

Winning, nah. Your dead right though nothing for the country to celebrate here. But on a personal level I'll be celebrating her death (even though she's been gaga for ages and wouldn't have known if she was a candlestick or a fucking chihuahua) for weeks and months and fucking years.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

interesting that she thought constructive dialogue was the answer there but didnt seem to think it the answer to anything over here.

I did find that odd based on the little I know of her track record in England, though my knowledge of Thatcher is minimal ...

 

[cloggypop]

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnToK3kSKKg

 

[Jack D Rips]

To be fair, I guess there is no evidence she was a rapist. But I stand to be corrected

She was pretty friendly with one though.

 

[jexykrodic]

I totally understand why some people are pleased that Thatch is dead. Lots of people really suffered in the 1980s, and just because time has passed and she has gone there is no reason why they should be expected to forgive and forget.

It will surprise no one that I am not celebrating of course and on the whole I think she did a good job. Britain was on its knees when she took over, she improved our position around the world, took power back from the unions and left us in a far better position than we were in when she started.
I don't agree with all of her methods by any means, but things had to change, and ultimately she won three general elections convincingly, she didn't seize power by force.

In Andrew Marr's History of Modern Britain a few years back (which is a very balanced account that is worth watching) he summed things up by saying 'she still defines the country we still live in today. we are none of us Wilson's children, or Heath's children, or Major's or Blair's. We are all of us, like it or not, rebel or not, the children of Margaret Thatcher'.
This is true, and shows the impact that she had. Whatever you think of her, she actually got things done, whereas many other Prime Ministers, and certainly the ones since her, do a lot more talking than doing.

You don't and certainly Andrew Marr doesn't speak for me; neither of you should ever describe or imply that I or many millions of others are 'the children of Margaret Thatcher'. Keep that title for the followers and brainwashed.

 

[singlerider]

Slightly bizarre angle from the Times here:

 

[cloggypop]

Here's a lovely memento for Fox or Peter or Dirkus

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/In-Memory...ollectables_Memorabila_RL&hash=item1e796594f3

 

[6TimesaRed]

She actually died in a luxury suite in the Ritz hotel.

Would of been much more fitting in Brighton imho,

tick.. tick... boom..

Thatcher in pieces..

 

[QUADRASPAZ]

It feels weird posting here. Like its like when I see a copy of The Lying Rag on the floor or on a bus or train it gets volleyed to fuck by default. Same with Tatcher.

An if wool LFC fans don't volley The Lying Rag or an dont think Tatchers a pure icky nasty cunt then it's like it's like a blind black lad that acting like a white supremacist. It feels fucking weird. Some of the stereotypical southern smug Tory cunts on here regardless of how boss their educations been or even if their actual southern blerts has depressed the shit outta me. Why? Why support LFC? You'd have more fun at Stamford. Is it edgy for Tory cunts to support LFC now? It fucked me off ages ago an yesterday just confirmed it. Fuck off anyway I'm sticking round. Cos cunts just need telling their cunts. An sparking. Constant sparking until you become sound which won't happen cos your horrible mingy snotty smug flids.

 

[tombrown]

She was pretty friendly with one though.

I think it is clear that her relationship with the paedo was limited to swapping hairstyling techniques

 

[6TimesaRed]

I think it is clear that her relationship with the paedo was limited to swapping hairstyling techniques

NSPCC

*cringes*

 

[Ryan]

Heh, lol at this thread. Oh, and welcome back Sunny - I led the campaign long n hard to get you back on here. Pot Noodle style.

And major lol at all the saps who're blaming thatcher for their dad being a depressed, moany cunt when you were young. Like he wouldn't have found any other fucking reason whatsoever to be a depressed, moany cunt. He was an adult male of the 50s in Britain - it's all they fucking bred.

 

[Sunny]

Heh, lol at this thread. Oh, and welcome back Sunny - I led the campaign long n hard to get you back on here. Pot Noodle style.

And major lol at all the saps who're blaming thatcher for their dad being a depressed, moany cunt when you were young. Like he wouldn't have found any other fucking reason whatsoever to be a depressed, moany cunt. He was an adult male of the 50s in Britain - it's all they fucking bred.

You mean Skully of course 😉