Don't you fucking dare leave!
She's dead
- Thread starter jexykrodic
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It's not true at all that the 'reduction' was paid for by the poorer. Firstly, receipts went up. Secondly, the amount paid by the rich increased in absolute cash terms and also as a % of the total revenues.
And in her final days as PM inflation was on its way back up and she caused a massive housing crash plus a social housing shortage.
People often overlook the fact that the nationalised British industries were a complete and utter mess and doomed to die from a combination of rabidly left-wing union power and the start of globalisation supplying better, cheaper imports - but they attribute our industrial demise solely to Thatcher.
So you would hand left things how they were ? Who knows how that would have ended up.
There was nothing wrong with winters on discontent ? Remember it was labour that capped the pay they were striking about in the first place.
What do people think of this article?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22076886
It seems like the author was trying to put forward a balanced view but overall it is quite defensive of Thatcher.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22076886
It seems like the author was trying to put forward a balanced view but overall it is quite defensive of Thatcher.
i think thatcher would have thought that his career as a historian was a luxury that society could do without.
Well, as we know, I don't believe in the left and right wing concept (which I've explained before), so we are going to have to take it at face value that I brought it up merely as a counter-point when attributing things to Thatcher. It's been difficult finding any contrary views about the state of British industry during the 70s, so I've had to go with the concensus. I'm happy to be corrected about our industrial situation during that time, however, so over to you.
So now you're saying people overlook it, yet it's a consensus?
hey I linked that one this morning, thought it was fairly balanced
If we've learned nothing at all throughout the years on this forum - everything good that happened under a nutty leader was all their work. All the bad stuff was someone else's fault.
Don't go analysing shit
In 1981 the halted the inflation rise on the tax brackets at a time when inflation was running at 13% which quickly pushed more families into higher brackets. But fair does, her tax cuts maybe did encourage people to actually pay their taxes and not avoid them.
Apologies. I should clarify. The "concensus" I refer to comes from the commentariat that has taken the time to look at the (more) complete picture of the state of the nation in the 1970s. The "people" I refer to are those that (probably) haven't looked beyond the polarised headlines beloved of the overly-ideological types, or those that choose to ignore the full facts for whatever personal reason they wish to.
Again these are myths. During the last days of the Labour Government in 1979 the unemployment rate was 5.4% and had been around that for several years previously, during 1981 under the Tories, at it's peak it was 11.9%; yeah more than double.
Also the number of strikes peaked in 1976 under Labour at 6514 lost days per month, under Thatcher they peaked at almost double that at around 11800 lost days in 1981.
Marginal tax rate was lower under Labour as the Tories more than doubled the VAT rate.
Also according to the Institute for Fiscal Studies:"13.4% of the population lived below 60% of median incomes before housing costs. By 1990, it had gone up to 22.2%, or 12.2m people, with huge rises in the mid-1980s."
As for what could be done - we could have managed our manufacturing base by investing in it as the Germans did. They too were restructuring and kept faith in the idea that making something to sell was better at earning income than relying on bankers and the market circulating paper for currency and commissions. Turns out they were right and had to live with strong unions and skilled workers who knew their worth, but they were treated as an asset rather than the enemy within.
Pith off. I don't have your forum-debating experience, as my message count clearly shows.
1. She supported the retention of capital punishment
2. She destroyed the country's manufacturing industry
3. She voted against the relaxation of divorce laws
4. She abolished free milk for schoolchildren ("Margaret Thatcher, Milk Snatcher")
5. She supported more freedom for business (and look how that turned out)
6. She gained support from the National Front in the 1979 election by pandering to the fears of immigration
7. She gerrymandered local authorities by forcing through council house sales, at the same time preventing councils from spending the money they got for selling houses on building new houses (spending on social housing dropped by 67% in her premiership)
8. She was responsible for 3.6 million unemployed - the highest figure and the highest proportion of the workforce in history and three times the previous government. Massaging of the figures means that the figure was closer to 5 million
9. She ignored intelligence about Argentinian preparations for the invasion of the Falkland Islands and scrapped the only Royal Navy presence in the islands
10. The poll tax
11. She presided over the closure of 150 coal mines; we are now crippled by the cost of energy, having to import expensive coal from abroad
12. She compared her "fight" against the miners to the Falklands War
13. She privatised state monopolies and created the corporate greed culture that we've been railing against for the last 5 years
14. She introduced the gradual privatisation of the NHS
15. She introduced financial deregulation in a way that turned city institutions into avaricious money pits
16. She pioneered the unfailing adoration and unquestioning support of the USA
17. She allowed the US to place nuclear missiles on UK soil, under US control
18. Section 28
19. She opposed anti-apartheid sanctions against South Africa and described Nelson Mandela as "that grubby little terrorist"
20. She support the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia and sent the SAS to train their soldiers
21. She allowed the US to bomb Libya in 1986, against the wishes of more than 2/3 of the population
22. She opposed the reunification of Germany
23. She invented Quangos
24. She increased VAT from 8% to 17.5%
25. She had the lowest approval rating of any post-war Prime Minister
26. Her post-PM job? Consultant to Philip Morris tobacco at $250,000 a year, plus $50,000 per speech
27. The Al Yamamah contract
28. She opposed the indictment of Chile's General Pinochet
29. Social unrest under her leadership was higher than at any time since the General Strike
30. She presided over interest rates increasing to 15%
31. BSE
32. She presided over 2 million manufacturing job losses in the 79-81 recession
33. She opposed the inclusion of Eire in the Northern Ireland peace process
34. She supported sanctions-busting arms deals with South Africa
35. Cecil Parkinson, Alan Clark, David Mellor, Jeffrey Archer, Jonathan Aitkin
36. Crime rates doubled under Thatcher
37. Black Wednesday – Britain withdraws from the ERM and the pound is devalued. Cost to Britain - £3.5 billion; profit for George Soros - £1 billion
38. Poverty doubled while she opposed a minimum wage
39. She privatised public services, claiming at the time it would increase public ownership. Most are now owned either by foreign governments (EDF) or major investment houses. The profits don’t now accrue to the taxpayer, but to foreign or institutional shareholders.
40. She cut 75% of funding to museums, galleries and other sources of education
41. In the Thatcher years the top 10% of earners received almost 50% of the tax remissions
42. 21.9% inflation
2. She destroyed the country's manufacturing industry
3. She voted against the relaxation of divorce laws
4. She abolished free milk for schoolchildren ("Margaret Thatcher, Milk Snatcher")
5. She supported more freedom for business (and look how that turned out)
6. She gained support from the National Front in the 1979 election by pandering to the fears of immigration
7. She gerrymandered local authorities by forcing through council house sales, at the same time preventing councils from spending the money they got for selling houses on building new houses (spending on social housing dropped by 67% in her premiership)
8. She was responsible for 3.6 million unemployed - the highest figure and the highest proportion of the workforce in history and three times the previous government. Massaging of the figures means that the figure was closer to 5 million
9. She ignored intelligence about Argentinian preparations for the invasion of the Falkland Islands and scrapped the only Royal Navy presence in the islands
10. The poll tax
11. She presided over the closure of 150 coal mines; we are now crippled by the cost of energy, having to import expensive coal from abroad
12. She compared her "fight" against the miners to the Falklands War
13. She privatised state monopolies and created the corporate greed culture that we've been railing against for the last 5 years
14. She introduced the gradual privatisation of the NHS
15. She introduced financial deregulation in a way that turned city institutions into avaricious money pits
16. She pioneered the unfailing adoration and unquestioning support of the USA
17. She allowed the US to place nuclear missiles on UK soil, under US control
18. Section 28
19. She opposed anti-apartheid sanctions against South Africa and described Nelson Mandela as "that grubby little terrorist"
20. She support the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia and sent the SAS to train their soldiers
21. She allowed the US to bomb Libya in 1986, against the wishes of more than 2/3 of the population
22. She opposed the reunification of Germany
23. She invented Quangos
24. She increased VAT from 8% to 17.5%
25. She had the lowest approval rating of any post-war Prime Minister
26. Her post-PM job? Consultant to Philip Morris tobacco at $250,000 a year, plus $50,000 per speech
27. The Al Yamamah contract
28. She opposed the indictment of Chile's General Pinochet
29. Social unrest under her leadership was higher than at any time since the General Strike
30. She presided over interest rates increasing to 15%
31. BSE
32. She presided over 2 million manufacturing job losses in the 79-81 recession
33. She opposed the inclusion of Eire in the Northern Ireland peace process
34. She supported sanctions-busting arms deals with South Africa
35. Cecil Parkinson, Alan Clark, David Mellor, Jeffrey Archer, Jonathan Aitkin
36. Crime rates doubled under Thatcher
37. Black Wednesday – Britain withdraws from the ERM and the pound is devalued. Cost to Britain - £3.5 billion; profit for George Soros - £1 billion
38. Poverty doubled while she opposed a minimum wage
39. She privatised public services, claiming at the time it would increase public ownership. Most are now owned either by foreign governments (EDF) or major investment houses. The profits don’t now accrue to the taxpayer, but to foreign or institutional shareholders.
40. She cut 75% of funding to museums, galleries and other sources of education
41. In the Thatcher years the top 10% of earners received almost 50% of the tax remissions
42. 21.9% inflation
So, we have the majority of people against thatcher. All of whom live in the north.
Meanwhile we have everyone in the south defending her, at least a lit more so. The only exceptions I can remember are Andy & Pesam, Andy had first hand experience of the north under her (may have lived there at the time, I dunno), I dunno why Pesam is an exception, maybe he will tell us he lived darn sarf during the time.
Meanwhile we have everyone in the south defending her, at least a lit more so. The only exceptions I can remember are Andy & Pesam, Andy had first hand experience of the north under her (may have lived there at the time, I dunno), I dunno why Pesam is an exception, maybe he will tell us he lived darn sarf during the time.
Ah, but you appear to be picking up the pundamentals!
But seriously - everyone knows about the unions and blah blah blah, I genuinely haven't seen a lot of analysis that considers the North Sea Oil or heard many people discuss it as a factor in the economic recovery, when clearly it played a part
But seriously - everyone knows about the unions and blah blah blah, I genuinely haven't seen a lot of analysis that considers the North Sea Oil or heard many people discuss it as a factor in the economic recovery, when clearly it played a part
Well, I don't know if it's myths exactly; our industries were in trouble and something had to change. And there's no revisionism needed regarding the fact that nowhere near enough was done to alleviate the devastation caused to our former industrial heartlands and the people therein. In fact, was anything truly attempted at all to revive these places, apart from the inward investment of the foreign car makers to the NE and Midlands?
Also, were there people around in the UK during the 1970s who understood the German model and were advocating adopting it in Britain?
Fuck off Jon, I'm a southerner.
And Sunny, that list missed off Suharto, who was also responsible for a genocide of around a million people, not to mention her support for the Saudis
And Sunny, that list missed off Suharto, who was also responsible for a genocide of around a million people, not to mention her support for the Saudis
I said that I could remember. Sorry!
I was born in '84 in a small mining village in South Yorkshire. I think we know which side of the fence I'm on.
I won't lie I had a couple of drinks last night. I hate what she did to my community. But I feel quite uncomfortable when I see the recent footage of her. A frail old lady, who had lost her marbles.
It almost makes me feel bad for being glad she's dead. Almost.
I won't lie I had a couple of drinks last night. I hate what she did to my community. But I feel quite uncomfortable when I see the recent footage of her. A frail old lady, who had lost her marbles.
It almost makes me feel bad for being glad she's dead. Almost.
I keep forgetting about the tags!
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