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Should they stay or should they go.

Frogfish

Gone to Redcafe
Member
Not wishing to usurp Farky's 'How good is this team' post but this is slightly different so here's my take and below I've quoted Momo & Dee's posts on the same theme.

No need for a dissertation or OTT bashing, keep it simple with a qualifier if you wish. Remember too that who stays or goes will obviously depend a lot on the new manager (whoever it is) and that no matter who that ends up being there won't be a wholesale sell off / transfers in.

SELL / LET GO

Adrian
Thiago
Tsimikas - we need to replace Robbo who will then become the back up
Salah - take away the penalties and he's an average PL striker, but he's not giving us anything in regards to the team (defence, tackling etc.). Love him but time's up.
Matip
Gomez - with Bradders and a new LB and CB we won't need his versatility. Too technically limited.


ON THE FENCE (good offer - arrivederci)

Nunez - even my support is wavering, I thought he'd kick on but he's just not learning some of the basics that would elevate his return.
Endo - I'm torn here. I'm sure he'll stay for another season but with Badger fit and I would assume we'll buy another DM there's not going to be a lot term future.
Jota - so valuable / so injury prone. Sell if there is a good offer because his down time restricts our effectiveness and options.
Elliott - fluctuates between hot and cold. I'm not sure his deficiencies (lack of pace, tackling, ridiculously inconsistent) can be overcome. Give him one more season.
Gakpo - he's #5 in the attacking roster. Not sure he'll ever be higher.
Konate - injury prone and takes a while to get back but can be world class for spells. We won't sell him.

KEEP

Ali
Kelleher - though he may have other ideas what's best for LFC is we keep him as back up.
VvD - don't care what people say, he's still one of the best in the world and I'd keep him for another 2-3 seasons. CBs generally have a later sell buy date on the label.
Quansah
Robbo - he should be replaced as starting LB but kept as back up
Trent
Badger
Bradley
Macca
Jones
Gravenberch - young and talented. Needs direction.
Szobo - we've seen what he's capable of. A new manager / new season may see him return to his early season heights.
Diaz - as a winger he is excellent, he beats his man (and more) over and over, has endless energy and puts in a shift defensively too. I'm sure in a better functioning team he'll be even more effective.

INBOUND

New CB
New DM
New LB
New RW
 
After smashing another beer, I’m starting to chill.

Okay, there are some positives within the squad, some questionable talents and then there is the dross which needs bombing out. I’ll also add in a needs to go because this is the time for best return. Soz to be all boring accountant with it all.

Positives

Trent. Loads will disagree but this guy is a talent. The right back or inverted play maker isn’t working under Klopp. The guy is a talent. The most gifted player in our team.

Mac Allister - Again, a winner. The guy sees the game in slo mo at times. We’ve just fucked it up by playing him as a DM.

Ali - And I’m debating about dropping him in here due to two factors. Age and injuries. He had a few injuries which hurt us when he first joined, then hasn’t been injured in ages but this season he’s missed half the games. Is it the Brazilian curse?

Now I’m really struggling. Nobody else I’d be gutted to leave. That is really where we are at.

Questionable.

VVD - Let’s speak about the “captain”. Sorry, love the guy. He’s not a captain. Nor is Trent by the way. At times he’s seemed like his best. Others he’s looked his age. Would I sell? No. We should be looking at his successor.

Robbo - The guy is now a squad player. He’s done amazing with his ability and achieved more than anyone can ever expect. Not a first team starter but probably low in terms of replacing.

SoBoss - has turned to SoShit since the autumn internationals. Started like a house on fire. Well that is truly burnt out. It’s a smouldering mess. Is he being played wrong? Is it form? Shall we try under a new manager and system? Probably yes to all.

Elliott - He isn’t a winger. Nor a midfielder. I think he’d be handy in a behind the striker from the right kind of role. The kid has energy, skill, shooting. He just doesn’t do it consistently enough,.

Gravy - I’m all in on this kid. Still a kid remember. He needs a role and discipline. He also needs games.

Endo - Love him, but he’s 31. 31!!!!! Second spot to……………..

Badger - This kid oozes class. Shame he’s had the Gerrard shin splints. He looks an absolute unit right now and has been massively missed. It;s ridiculous how much we have missed a 20 year old kid. He can do anything.

Jota - I only need to use one word. Injuries.

Bomb out

Salah - £350k/week. For what? I know the spreadsheets will come out but he is garbage. No pace. No power. No composure. No influence. We will regret not taking that Saudi money. History will prove me right.

Nunez - No technical ability. No game intelligence. What a terrible signing.

Gakpo - He seems a nice lad. No steel about him.

Jones - Not good enough. Can try, but too slow with everything. Seems like he needs that extra touch which you don’t get at this level.

Tsimikas - If Robbo is to become 2nd choice then what’s the point

JoGo - Had a good spell this season for about 6 games. The best 6 games he has had since we won the league.

Konate - I used to love the guy. Was fast and physical. Now just gives fouls away. Needless fouls.

Matip - going

Adrian - going

Kev - Needs to go for his own career. Won’t be good enough to displace Ali.

Needs to go because of value

Diaz - At his age, we won’t ever get a return like we will now. If we are going for a total rebuild, we could do worse than cashing in.



I’m not saying the club should sell all those questionable ones. I’d happily shift a load of them to help with a long term vision for the club to get us to the top.

To answer the original question, it is a good team on its day. It’s just not good enough to consistently provide us with what we need. Or even over 90 minutes.

Right. This is EXACTLY why I stopped my equivalent!

But you've gone so ...


Positives

Yeah obviously

Questionable

VVD - don't disagree with the comments but he's a keeper for now. I worry he may block an incoming leader for next gen

Robbo -retain as back-up. There's a lot left just not a starter

SoBoss -I'm confused. So good 2023, so passive 2024

Elliott - .. is 20 and malleable. Lots of potential

Gravy - He's a luxury player that doesn't work in the EPL He either gets discipline or we look to offload (but that's hard we pay him a fortune)

Endo - Get over his age. He's good enough ..... but we need to think about a replacement soonish

Badger - Let's see. I think he's the best of the young 'uns

Jota - Jari II (but not as good)
 
SELL / LET GO

Matip / Thiago / Adrian are off, obv - Not renewing


ON THE FENCE (good offer - arrivederci)

Salah - I do want to sell, but... who is going to buy him though? Gonna run down his contract and steal another year of 350k/w
Darwin Nunez - See above.
Diaz - if too good to refuse.
Robbo - Bayern need a Left Back don't they? Sell sell sell
Tsimikas - Tempted to give him a run under Slot


KEEP

Everyone else - why would we sell them? They'll serve us better as backup

INBOUND

New No 9
New RW
New LB (or 2)

We don't have money for anyone else.
 
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Sell Gomez Robbo Kelleher Salah Jones Harvey and if we get a 70M offer for Diaz then him too. Other than Diaz I wouldn’t be sad to see any of them go.

Ask Leipzig if we can have our money back for Szobo.

Let the manager bring in the players he wants.
 
Sell Gomez Robbo Kelleher Salah Jones Harvey and if we get a 70M offer for Diaz then him too. Other than Diaz I wouldn’t be sad to see any of them go.

Ask Leipzig if we can have our money back for Szobo.

Let the manager bring in the players he wants.

What part of "We don't have money" do you not understand...
 
Why are people advocating selling Robbo and Gomez? They are EXACTLY the sort of players you want as backup. Gomez has carried us through a lot of this season. First sign of a lull in form and everyone's like "too limited" and whatever other bollocks. Talk about impulsive. Tsimikas should go for his own good, he's average, good lad etc, but we don't need two back up left backs (let alone three if Gomez stays).

You sell your fringe players who offer nothing and your sellable assets who can still command a big transfer fee, but are on the other side of the mountain going head first into the depths of mediocrity. Salah for one (obviously).

The rest mostly deserve a term under a new manager to put it right. We need to buy a striker, DM and centre back. We need to invest in other positions with potential (left back). We've hit a brick wall over the last two months, but show some perspective, we've the basis of a top side, we just pushed the title leaders until April, after going into the season wondering if we'd make the CL places.

I'm gutted about last night, I've (sadly) had enough of Klopp and his flaws that have become as raw as ever in the last two months, but you can't go from pushing the leaders for the whole season and being elated by a surprise title challenge, where we've punched above our weight, to then be like "sell everyone". I know that's not exactly the case, but you get my drift. There are alot of players who've suffered because of the intensity of Klopp's play and there are alot of players who Klopp hasn't had a fucking clue what to do with positionally (Trent, Harvey, Gapko and Nunez) - they deserve a fresh approach.

Clean slate from the Summer, but you need a good solid stable basis to build on. We all know who the deadwood are, there's no reason to go kneejerk and start making wholesale changes, that's just fucking mental. We did that last Summer because we had to, we don't need to this Summer. We just need to invest.
 
And I'd be careful getting confused between thinking players are inconsistent because of a lull in form, and the fact that pretty much all of our players go through this. It's not always a lack of quality or inconsistency, not when it's happening to the whole squad - it's a system and method that's unsustainable. Add that we literally have never had a plan B, it's no surprise that we've faltered so many times late on in competitions and seasons.
 
What part of "We don't have money" do you not understand...
There will be money. Selling players, saving on top wages and of course no new manager comes in and isn't given a budget to get in players to suit his vision. Edwards will be very busy this Summer.
 
We’re set up in a good way to spend money this summer. I’d be careful of a major clear out as we need the squad depth and Slutty will need to have a look at the players.

But Edwards isnt one for being sentimental and will get rid of the ones that dont have a future.
Salah with his 350k salary will be moved on imho. Its time.
Thiago, Matip are out of contract.
Kelleher will leave.
I’d listen to offers for Nunez and Tsimikas.

Thats it for this summer.
 
I think the categories need some more nuance.

We will have a new manager, and they should be allowed a fresh slate. To do this they need both funds to quickly build a team their way, and they should be allowed to cut some high wage earners.

High earners
- Thiago
- Salah
- Robbo
- Matip

Players who aren't dead cert starters who have sale value
- Nunez
- Konate
- Diaz


My view is we focus on this area, giving the greatest ability to bring in players who either command a high fee, high salary or both.

If I had to prioritise the next evolution of the rebuild it would be:

1. CB (baller CB)
2. LB
3. Attacker
4. CB
5. DM

I think our defence could really fall off a cliff performance wise (already showing cracks), whereas our attack is actually good but significantly low on confidence.

I think its time that Salah was sold, as he isn't part of the next dynasty so lets allow ourselves to rebuild around players who will be. Thiago & Matip are unreliable and should go. I think one of Nunez/Diaz might need to be sold for income, and I would personally cash in on Konate as he is hit & miss performance wise and also reliability wise. Someone like PSG would buy him for £50m. Cash in.
 
Not wishing to usurp Farky's 'How good is this team' post but this is slightly different so here's my take and below I've quoted Momo & Dee's posts on the same theme.

No need for a dissertation or OTT bashing, keep it simple with a qualifier if you wish. Remember too that who stays or goes will obviously depend a lot on the new manager (whoever it is) and that no matter who that ends up being there won't be a wholesale sell off / transfers in.

SELL / LET GO

Adrian
Thiago
Tsimikas - we need to replace Robbo who will then become the back up
Salah - take away the penalties and he's an average PL striker, but he's not giving us anything in regards to the team (defence, tackling etc.). Love him but time's up.
Matip
Gomez - with Bradders and a new LB and CB we won't need his versatility. Too technically limited.


ON THE FENCE (good offer - arrivederci)

Nunez - even my support is wavering, I thought he'd kick on but he's just not learning some of the basics that would elevate his return.
Endo - I'm torn here. I'm sure he'll stay for another season but with Badger fit and I would assume we'll buy another DM there's not going to be a lot term future.
Jota - so valuable / so injury prone. Sell if there is a good offer because his down time restricts our effectiveness and options.
Elliott - fluctuates between hot and cold. I'm not sure his deficiencies (lack of pace, tackling, ridiculously inconsistent) can be overcome. Give him one more season.
Gakpo - he's #5 in the attacking roster. Not sure he'll ever be higher.
Konate - injury prone and takes a while to get back but can be world class for spells. We won't sell him.

KEEP

Ali
Kelleher - though he may have other ideas what's best for LFC is we keep him as back up.
VvD - don't care what people say, he's still one of the best in the world and I'd keep him for another 2-3 seasons. CBs generally have a later sell buy date on the label.
Quansah
Robbo - he should be replaced as starting LB but kept as back up
Trent
Badger
Bradley
Macca
Jones
Gravenberch - young and talented. Needs direction.
Szobo - we've seen what he's capable of. A new manager / new season may see him return to his early season heights.
Diaz - as a winger he is excellent, he beats his man (and more) over and over, has endless energy and puts in a shift defensively too. I'm sure in a better functioning team he'll be even more effective.

INBOUND

New CB
New DM
New LB
New RW

So we are left with no strikers?

Won't happen.

Get rid/cash in:
Adrian
Thiago
Tsimikas
Salah
Matip
Nunez

If a good offer arrives I'd consider
Alisson (it's probably our last chance to get a good fee - and injuries are piling up)
Konate - Too fragile
Jota (if we keep Nunez) - Too fragile

Everyone else I'd keep.
 
Sell/end of contract
Thiago
Matip
Salah
Nunez
Jones
Tsimi
Jota - too injury prone to being relied upon.

Buy
Cb
LB
DM
1x top tier striker
1x backup striker
1x young winger

Won't happen but a man can dream
 
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Wouldn't put it past Edwards lad, he might even get the fucker to take a pay cut for the good of the team!!

"You win the PL or CL in your first season lad and you'll be on 10m a year"
 
Yes, agreed.

Regardless of the new manager I doubt even Edwards would have returned if there was no money.

There's obviously some money since we bid for Caicedo. But I don't think a Fabio style fire sale and wholesale changes are going to happen.
 
Why are people advocating selling Robbo and Gomez? They are EXACTLY the sort of players you want as backup. Gomez has carried us through a lot of this season. First sign of a lull in form and everyone's like "too limited" and whatever other bollocks. Talk about impulsive. Tsimikas should go for his own good, he's average, good lad etc, but we don't need two back up left backs (let alone three if Gomez stays).
I doubt this was aimed at me (bar the Gomez bit) since I've only advocated moving on 5 (and 3 of those are out of contract) however if we bring in a new LB (and we need one, Robbo is clearly on the slippery slope, 30 is fine for a CB or even a DM but not an energetic LB) and sell Tsimikas, whose time is surely up, then Robbo becomes the backup - so LB covered.

On the right we have Trent and Bradders and I think most agree Gomez is not a dependable CB and would be down in 5th in the pecking order (VvD, New CB, Konate, Quansah and maybe even a V.d.Berg return is likely?) and let's not forget Ramsay & Beck too.

Gomez is only 26 and homegrown but I'm not sure he will be required next season and I see him as surplus to requirements ... and we could be in the position of having to raise funds for better players rather than keeping players who will clearly never become better than they are.
 
There's obviously some money since we bid for Caicedo. But I don't think a Fabio style fire sale and wholesale changes are going to happen.
Yeah we probably won't. Man can dream though
 
So we are left with no strikers?

Won't happen.

Get rid/cash in:
Adrian
Thiago
Tsimikas
Salah
Matip
Nunez

If a good offer arrives I'd consider
Alisson (it's probably our last chance to get a good fee - and injuries are piling up)
Konate - Too fragile
Jota (if we keep Nunez) - Too fragile

Everyone else I'd keep.
Who said that? I only said sell Salah. If we get good offers for others (Jota, Nunez) we should consider them (and if we did then we'd certainly buy someone else) but I didn't say sell everyone ! Every one of our 5 attackers hit double figures this year, I'm fine with just letting Mo. go +1 if the offer is right.
 
i’m glad konate isn’t escaping the discussion either, he has been shite at times and cant be relied upon to be available.

we’ve accumulated a few of these unreliable guys now- Jota, Jones, Ibou. we can’t build a team around occasionally great.

we’re obviously keeping Trent but i hope he starts to knuckle down, he’s giving off the vibe that there’s nothing left to teach him. in an alternate universe i’d like to see him go to madrid and get humbled, i think he’d get nowhere near their midfield and the fans would be quick to vocalise their frustrations over his defensive abilities at rb.

Mo has to go, legend and fantastic player in his prime but that has passed.

Darwin i don’t even want to talk about, no coincidence that rooney and sturridge were talking about how strikers train to make finishing correctly come naturally. Sell please.

gakpo and diaz, willing to give both a chance but willing to sell for the right offer, more so for diaz.

endo - i think there’s a reason why we don’t see many 31 year old dm’s at the top end of the PL. Had a great spell which would be useful if he could replicate next season in tandem with badgers return. we should be looking to replace him ideally though.

robbo is another legend… that we should be moving on. kostas has never shown the desire or consistency to push robbo properly, he should go too.

bit of a rambling post there but i think we need to freshen up and use this break in klopps loyalty to move some guys on
 
Darwin i don’t even want to talk about, no coincidence that rooney and sturridge were talking about how strikers train to make finishing correctly come naturally. Sell please.
I honestly don't understand what is going on here. Surely that is coaching 101 and he has being practicing it day in day out. And then he shoots straight at the keeper with power?
 
Sell/end of contract
Thiago
Matip
Salah
Nunez
Jones
Tsimi
Jota - too injury prone to being relied upon.

Buy
Cb
LB
DM
1x top tier striker
1x backup striker
1x young winger

Won't happen but a man can dream
I'd be interested in seeing how well a couple of our injury prone players fair in a different set up. Particularly Jota and Konate.
 
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