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So when do Liverpool come back from their training camp?

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If Klopp's patience has snapped, as you've said a few times now, he needs to start showing it, because it's not being reflected on the pitch, either in lineups, intent, the willingness to change things or the end result. Occasionally we rile ourselves for a big game, but that's been the case forever. Our back line is still piss poor and only one player in that backline playing last night remains from before Klopp. He's decided to play Lucas ahead of his own centre back signing, and to convert Milner into a fullback. His own player Wijnaldum was a non-entity again away from home, players are too cautious frantically trying to keep possession instead of posing a genuine threat or just taking a chance. That's on the manager. It's too easy to just blame the players. If it's the players and they aren't carrying out instructions and they are bottling it, drop them.
 
Sadly for the players, I think they've been fooled by what has happened at other clubs, and they don't quite understand that at this club at this time, every single one of them is expendable, but the manager is not.
 
If Klopp's patience has snapped, as you've said a few times now, he needs to start showing it, because it's not being reflected on the pitch, either in lineups, intent, the willingness to change things or the end result. Occasionally we rile ourselves for a big game, but that's been the case forever. Our back line is still piss poor and only one player in that backline playing last night remains from before Klopp. He's decided to play Lucas ahead of his own centre back signing, and to convert Milner into a fullback. His own player Wijnaldum was a non-entity again away from home, players are too cautious frantically trying to keep possession instead of posing a genuine threat or just taking a chance. That's on the manager. It's too easy to just blame the players. If it's the players and they aren't carrying out instructions and they are bottling it, drop them.

What players would you bring in who haven't also been culpable in the past?
 
Clearly the players aren't performing as expected, but that doesn't absolve the manager of blame.

Because even if he's not sending us out to play the way we are , its reaching the point where its fair to say that he's allowing it to happen - week after week. And thats a failing on his part.

It looks like Klopp is a coach that has 'a vision' of how the game should be played. He's not going to tailor our approach to cover very obvious weaknesses.
That puts extra pressure on getting your player recruitment and contract decisions right.
 
What players would you bring in who haven't also been culpable in the past?

I don't know Macca, but a change is as good as the rest. You've watched the reserves and been equally scathing about their mentality, there's only really one person (or section) that falls on, the management. It's not necessarily their fault, but it's something they must start to change, that's their responsibility. If the problem is rife throughout the first team and youth players, then it's a problem the staff need to address and begin to shift. If certain players aren't good enough, we should find out more about what we have in reserve, rather than it being a wasted exercise on both counts.
 
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I don't know Macca, but a change is as good as the rest. You've watched the reserves and been equally scathing about their mentality, there's only really one person (or section) that falls on, the management. It's not necessarily their fault, but it's something they must start to change, that's their responsibility. If the problem is rife throughout the first team and youth players, then it's a problem the staff need to address and begin to shift. If certain players aren't good enough, we should find out more about what we have in reserve, rather than it being a wasted exercise on both counts.

A change isn't always as good as the rest. (And if we're mentioning the reserves then the source of THAT now deep-rooted mentality goes back several years.) But I would like to know what specifically can and should be done to make players who are perfectly fit and well-briefed and technically proficient play consistently as if that's true.

If there was a squad that simply never turned up, that never performed, that was consistently mediocre, then I can see what 'management' could do to resolve that. I find it much more problematic when sometimes a set of players turn up, look extremely tactically disciplined, extremely sharp and committed, and sometimes look the opposite. Something needs to be done, yes, but there's precious little being said about what that should be, save for empty cliches about shaking things up or 'geeing' up the players. Personally, aside from replacing these irresponsible and gutless dullards, I don't profess to know what can be done in the short term. It would be helpful if those who do, say what it is.
 
We'll know where we are at this summer, Klopp/owners need to be brutal. We don't need '1 or 2 quality additions', we need more like 4 or 5 like Mane level and cost, and backups, and to ship some of the shit out. If they don't do this, then we know that Klopp/Owners are not going to work out. We have the money as Klopp's hardly spent that much net, and the TV revenues are through the roof. If by some miracle we finish top 4 then there will be even more money coming in.

...................X
Clyne..Matip..X...X
...............X
.....Lallana..Wijnaldum
Mane......X........Coutinho

We need to buying quality X's for the first team not the bench this summer. No fucking Grujic, Klavan's, Origi's etc.
 
Is this a widespread problem now?

If not, why this specific group of players?

Pretty widespread, I think. There are plenty of examples. Look at the last time Rodgers' team was playing well. They faced the mancs at home. Everyone predicted a comfortable win. And they didn't turn up. They just didn't compete. I guess you could go back to Roy Evans' era, when pound coins were passed around on the pitch, Ruddock ate himself unfit in the gym and Fowler pissed away his potential. Yes, Houllier and Rafa cracked the whip but when things went wrong there was the same old passing of the buck, symbolised by Gerrard's am-dram 'bemused' shaking of the head and puzzled look at the manager when his inferiors were letting him down.

I guess it's part of a wider problem - hardly anyone seems to blame themselves for anything these days. Students start degrees, sleep through three years and then consider suing their teachers for not delivering them the degree of their dreams, activists fail to convince enough people to vote the 'right' way and then pour scorn on their 'betrayal'. Hardly anyone feels shame, hardly anyone admits to letting themselves down. Footballers strike me as generally pretty aimless and docile creatures who don't even enjoy the game. They'll get energised if the results go their way, the hype builds up and the flattery continues, but when it stops, so do they, and they simply wait like children for dad to sort it out. The result last night was even more depressing than just for us, because it sent out the message to all clubs that even if the players switch off for six months, you only need to change the manger to get them going again. Nothing else seems worth trying.
 
I guess it's part of a wider problem - hardly anyone seems to blame themselves for anything these days. Students start degrees, sleep through three years and then consider suing their teachers for not delivering them the degree of their dreams.

Uhh I might be slightly partly to blame for that one.
 
It's impossible to stop players being like this in the modern game.

These are players who have been literally bribed by clubs to come play for them from the age of 10. Their families given jobs, given houses to live in, some get personal fucking assistants from the age of a teenager.

If they get in trouble, the club bail them out & often make it disappear entirely. Their parents rarely manage to adequately be the responsible parents they should be because their child holds all the power.

Then they usually end millionaires before they hit 21. Weekly disposable incomes bigger than most people's yearly total incomes. Girls falling over them when they go anywhere, lads slathering over their every word. Agents telling them they're gonna be the best player in the world. Being paid thousands, sometimes millions, by sponsors & advertisers just to use or wear their products. Living in mansions with swimming pools, cinema rooms, acres of land, & staff.

All this before the age your average lad hasn't finished university, & look how naive & immature your average post graduate is when they enter the real world without all that ego boosting shite on top.

Most players are just spoilt, petulant 7 year old kids in adult bodies, & the sad thing is, it's little fucking wonder, & almost completely unavoidable without a sea change in football's attitude.
 
Capping the basic salary to what it was 20 years ago. Paying the rest as a win bonus which is weighted according to last years league position so that the players at shit teams aren't unfairly penalised. Then if the team lose you donate the unpaid wages to a local charity. It's about the only way most fans will not end up apathetically packing it in within a few years.
 
It was an interesting wording from Klopp saying "We all play for Our futures here".

It is a poor patch from us and we need to step up. But I give Klopp the backing on that it is better to build so solid that it lasts rather than change personell just to change it. Players that we have bought has until the end of the season to show they can be counted on going forward. And there will come in players capable of lifting us. Can it have cost us a CL Place? We don't know yet. These Places are still up for grabs, and we can still grab one. However that require that we get Our act together now. However we have one CL campaign over the last 7 Seasons or so, so I think we have to build so strong that we Challenge that every season, not just grab a Place two or Three times every ten years.
 
These cunts do not give a good fuck.
None of them. Its a job. They are ok at it, but they dont care for it.
I dont get it anymore. I really dont get football
.

This is exactly it. I am sick of reading interviews by Mignolet, Matip, Lallana et al telling us how good things are and how they have to show consistency and play against the shite the same as they do against the top teams, when I have already read the fucking script and know how its going to play out. They are a shower of shitehouses. Fucking gutless cowards!

And the manager needs to get his act together as well. Some of his recent selection decisions have not helped matters at all, and fucking hell Jurgen do you have to wait so long to make a fucking change?
 
A sign of where it's going is this story, that was planted in the Mirror yesterday by someone at the club. The poor little lambs are unhappy that they can't train when it suits their busy lifestyles. Didn't seem to bother them before November, but it's never their fault, is it.




Atypically amongst Premier League managers, Klopp implements a training schedule that skews the start time of team sessions towards late afternoon or early evening. A Liverpool source provided The Daily Record with an example of a 12-day regime built around three matches published below.
Liverpool’s 12-day training regime

Saturday 3pm - game
Sunday 11am - recovery session
Monday – day off
Tuesday 10:30am - light training / 5pm - heavy training
Wednesday 5pm - training
Thursday 3:30pm - training
Friday 5pm - training
Saturday 5:30pm - game
Sunday 11am - recovery session
Monday 5pm - training
Tuesday 5pm - training
Weds 10:30am - training / 8pm game


Klopp's reasoning is that training closer to kick-off times provides a better preparation for matches. Some of his players, it is said, are less than enthused by the repercussions of this set-up.

During the season's winter months much of the squad's training-pitch work takes place during the hours of darkness.

“The lads are depressed with it,” says the source. “Players with young kids wake up early with them, hang around all day, then get home late without seeing their kids again. Players without kids stay in bed until lunchtime, train, then stay up late at night.”




It really makes me want to smack the lot of them in the face with a shovel.
 
A sign of where it's going is this story, that was planted in the Mirror yesterday by someone at the club. The poor little lambs are unhappy that they can't train when it suits their busy lifestyles. Didn't seem to bother them before November, but it's never their fault, is it.




Atypically amongst Premier League managers, Klopp implements a training schedule that skews the start time of team sessions towards late afternoon or early evening. A Liverpool source provided The Daily Record with an example of a 12-day regime built around three matches published below.
Liverpool’s 12-day training regime

Saturday 3pm - game
Sunday 11am - recovery session
Monday – day off
Tuesday 10:30am - light training / 5pm - heavy training
Wednesday 5pm - training
Thursday 3:30pm - training
Friday 5pm - training
Saturday 5:30pm - game
Sunday 11am - recovery session
Monday 5pm - training
Tuesday 5pm - training
Weds 10:30am - training / 8pm game


Klopp's reasoning is that training closer to kick-off times provides a better preparation for matches. Some of his players, it is said, are less than enthused by the repercussions of this set-up.

During the season's winter months much of the squad's training-pitch work takes place during the hours of darkness.

“The lads are depressed with it,” says the source. “Players with young kids wake up early with them, hang around all day, then get home late without seeing their kids again. Players without kids stay in bed until lunchtime, train, then stay up late at night.”




It really makes me want to smack the lot of them in the face with a shovel.

I've read that twice now and each time I have ended up open mouthed.

What to most is a dream reduced to an imperfect work schedule by those fortunate enough to be involved.

I'm astonished.
 
We'll know where we are at this summer, Klopp/owners need to be brutal. We don't need '1 or 2 quality additions', we need more like 4 or 5 like Mane level and cost, and backups, and to ship some of the shit out. If they don't do this, then we know that Klopp/Owners are not going to work out. We have the money as Klopp's hardly spent that much net, and the TV revenues are through the roof. If by some miracle we finish top 4 then there will be even more money coming in.

...................X
Clyne..Matip..X...X
...............X
.....Lallana..Wijnaldum
Mane......X........Coutinho

We need to buying quality X's for the first team not the bench this summer. No fucking Grujic, Klavan's, Origi's etc.

Wijnaldum and Matip have not proven anything whatsoever. Apart from their lack of consistency and variable quality of performance.

But the rest is nothing new. Everyone has been saying for ages that a new GK, CB, CM/DM, LB and a quality, reliable striker who actually scores goals are minimum requirements. I would also add another wide, attacking player.

Lucas, Mignolet, Firmino, Origi, Klavan, Can aren't good enough.
 
I'd argue that Firmino, Origi, Can are good enough to be in the squad, just not a regular starting 11. Mignolet, Lucas - fuck them off. As for Klavan, god knows, he wont play him even when we dont have another fit CB.
 
Not going to add much to this except post Suarez there is not one little ounce of aggression or grit out there, we are the epitome of passive tippy tappy bellhoodom . And how on earth has this group of players completely forgotten how to fucking head a ball.
 
I'd like to think that this could see a look in for the likes of Gomez at least. If not now, when?
 
It's going to be quite difficult to get excited at all when we inevitably beat Arsenal 2-0 this weekend in a thoroughly professional display with every player looking properly up for it.
 
Saturday 3pm - game
Sunday 11am - recovery session
Monday – day off
Tuesday 10:30am - light training / 5pm - heavy training
Wednesday 5pm - training
Thursday 3:30pm - training
Friday 5pm - training
Saturday 5:30pm - game
Sunday 11am - recovery session
Monday 5pm - training
Tuesday 5pm - training
Weds 10:30am - training / 8pm game

I presume loads of other things have been left out of the schedule ?

And we just don't leave the players to their own devices for 22 hours a day
 
Wijnaldum and Matip have not proven anything whatsoever. Apart from their lack of consistency and variable quality of performance.

But the rest is nothing new. Everyone has been saying for ages that a new GK, CB, CM/DM, LB and a quality, reliable striker who actually scores goals are minimum requirements. I would also add another wide, attacking player.

Lucas, Mignolet, Firmino, Origi, Klavan, Can aren't good enough.

The sooner we phase out these bunch of losers the better it is for us. I dont think all but 3-4 of them have the talent to perform at a 7-8/10 level week in week out or have the mentality or application to tough it out in a fight like Kuyt.

Earlier I used to think all this team is missing is 2 players from Gerrard, Carra, Suarez, Torres bracket to qualify for Champions league. But now I am not even sure if many members of the current squad have the mentality to play a support role in a team which can compete for trophies.

I also think we blew a big chance this December in trying to attract a top level talent. Maybe we might have had to pay 10-12 million extra for someone like Brandt or Pulisic but I dont think they are going to come to us in the summer irrespective of how much we are ready to pay.

Matip looked like Rio Ferdinand pre-injury and now plays like Anton Ferdinand post injury. But I do have hopes for him due to his previous performances.

When I looked at Newcastle forums, pretty much there was consensus on one fact regarding Wijnaldum - goes hiding when the going gets tough. Main reason why Rafa did not use him as a starter during their relegation scrap. So far, he has lived up to that reputation.

Given our financial constraints, I hope Michael Edwards and Klopp can come up with a long term strategy to build a competitive team in 3-4 years. Tweaking the existing squad is only going to lead to disappointments.
 
That article is written by Duncan Castles isnt it? For the Daily Record. Which means the quotes are most likely made up.
Castles is Rui Faria in disguise.
 
According to the Telegraph we have another trip planned for later this month. This time to Tenerife.
 
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