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Squad Next Season

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carlv

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The squad is certainly going to need trimming as it stands we will have 31 players over 21 before any potential new signings. There are a few academy players that should have had a chance but it hasn't happened and Klopp has said he doesn't like loans.
I have listed who are presumably likely to go.


[xtable=skin1]
{tbody}
{tr}
{td=128x@}Goalkeeper{/td}
{td=77x@}Mignolet{/td}
{td=90x@}Ward{/td}
{td=90x@}Bogdan{/td}
{td=78x@} {/td}
{td=69x@} {/td}
{td=65x@} {/td}
{td=68x@} {/td}
{td=100x@} {/td}
{td=77x@} {/td}
{td=88x@} {/td}
{td=75x@} {/td}
{td=73x@} {/td}
{td=81x@} {/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Defence{/td}
{td}Lovren{/td}
{td}Moreno{/td}
{td}Skrtel{/td}
{td}Enrique{/td}
{td}Flanagan{/td}
{td}Toure{/td}
{td}Sakho{/td}
{td}Clyne{/td}
{td}Ilori{/td}
{td}Mclaughlin{/td}
{td}Smith{/td}
{td}Wisdom{/td}
{td} {/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Midfield{/td}
{td}Allen{/td}
{td}Lucas{/td}
{td}Henderson{/td}
{td}Lallana{/td}
{td}Coutinho{/td}
{td}Firmino{/td}
{td}Milner{/td}
{td}Teixeira{/td}
{td}Can{/td}
{td}Dunn{/td}
{td}Markovic{/td}
{td}Stewart{/td}
{td} {/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Forward{/td}
{td}Sturridge{/td}
{td}Benteke{/td}
{td}Ings{/td}
{td}Yesil{/td}
{td} {/td}
{td} {/td}
{td} {/td}
{td} {/td}
{td} {/td}
{td} {/td}
{td} {/td}
{td} {/td}
{td} {/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td} {/td}
{td} {/td}
{td} {/td}
{td} {/td}
{td} {/td}
{td} {/td}
{td} {/td}
{td} {/td}
{td} {/td}
{td} {/td}
{td} {/td}
{td} {/td}
{td} {/td}
{td} {/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}u21 @ 01/01/2016{/td}
{td}Brannagan{/td}
{td}Gomez{/td}
{td}Rossiter{/td}
{td}Ibe{/td}
{td}Origi{/td}
{td}Kent{/td}
{td}Ojo{/td}
{td}Randall{/td}
{td}Chirivella{/td}
{td}Grujic{/td}
{td}Allan{/td}
{td}Awoniyi{/td}
{td}Williams{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td} {/td}
{td} {/td}
{td} {/td}
{td} {/td}
{td} {/td}
{td} {/td}
{td} {/td}
{td} {/td}
{td} {/td}
{td} {/td}
{td} {/td}
{td} {/td}
{td} {/td}
{td} {/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Leavers{/td}
{td}Alberto{/td}
{td}Lucas{/td}
{td}Balotelli{/td}
{td}Enrique{/td}
{td}Markovic{/td}
{td}Yesil{/td}
{td}Bogdan{/td}
{td}Mclaughlin{/td}
{td}Ilori{/td}
{td}Wisdom{/td}
{td}Toure{/td}
{td}Stewart{/td}
{td} {/td}
{/tr}
{/tbody}
[/xtable]
 
I'm not so sure Markovic would leave.

I always forget about Enrique being in the squad - he is really out of favour. I quite liked glimpses I saw of Alberto and would like him to return and see what Klopp makes of him.
 
The squad is way too big. I'd look to sell about 10 of them for £100m or so, and spend it on 3 top class first teamers. Something like

Mignolet
Sakho
Skrtel
Allen
Milner
Lallana
Lucas
Luis Alberto
Benteke
Balotelli
 
peterhague said:
The squad is way too big. I'd look to sell about 10 of them for £100m or so, and spend it on 3 top class first teamers. Something like

Mignolet
Sakho
Skrtel
Allen
Milner
Lallana
Lucas
Luis Alberto
Benteke
Balotelli
Click to expand...

Selling those players and replacing with only 3 would leave us short.
 
I would imagine that a similar table of the squad this time next year will look very different. Klopp will want his own people all over the park after some of the dross he's witnessed since he came in. Fucking brainless bunch we've got on our hands.
 
Silver Sean said:
I would imagine that a similar table of the squad this time next year will look very different. Klopp will want his own people all over the park after some of the dross he's witnessed since he came in. Fucking brainless bunch we've got on our hands.
Click to expand...

If the process in Dotmund is any guide, then yeah, we should expect something like what you said. Of course, it all depends on how much say he gets in transfers, and the targets' availability.

This is what Dortmund looked like before Klopp took over, and at the end of the first season. I'm listing the main squad players with number of league games played in brackets; bold names are major changes in the form of acquisitions (loans or permanent) or promotions (either in no. of games played or from Dortmund II). Thought folks might find this interesting for reference when pondering how far and wide Klopp could go in fixing the squad next season.

07/08 <-- before Klopp
GK -- Ziegler (15), Weidenfeller (14)
RB -- Rukavina (14), Degen (10)
LB -- Dede (30)
CB -- Kovac (22), Worns (20), Amedick (16), Hummels (13), Brzenska (12)
CM -- Tinga (33), Kringe (27), Kruska (23), Kehl (14)
AM -- Federico (30), Buckley (31), Jakub (24)
CF -- Petric (29), Klimowicz (28), Valdez (27), Frei (13)

08/09 <-- 1st season
GK -- Weidenfeller (32)
RB -- **Owomoyela (26), **Young-Pyo (18), Ruvakina (5)
LB -- Dede (13), **Schmelzer (12)
CB -- **Subotic (33), **Santana (23), Hummels (12), Kovac (4)
CM -- Kringe (29), Kehl (28), Tinga (27), Sahin (25), Kruska (2)
AM -- **Hajnal (30), Jakub (27), **Boateng (10), Frederico (3), Buckley (3)
CF -- **Zidan (29), Frei (29), Valdez (29), Klimowicz (11), **Kullmann (7)

In his first season, the starting RB, starting pair of CBs, one of the starting AMs and the starter CF had changed, while a young CM had been promoted to play major minutes (Sahin). The future LB had also been promoted and rotated in (Schmelzer). Big bold moves (Petric, their leading scorer was also moved on), although a couple of them were helped by retiring players or players leaving on a free / nearing the end of their career.

This is rather interesting because bar the starting RB position (LB instead of RB for us), these are basically the same positions where I think we'd need upgrades in next season. Add the keeper for our case, of course. Whether he'll be able to make this number of changes, and the same bold changes here, is another story though.

---

The rest of the story, if you're curious:

The following season was for stabilization; the LB transition was now completed, and the transition of the CMs/AMs almost so. The CB pairing was tweaked, while the CF position needed another fix (Barrios came in).

09/10
GK -- Weidenfeller (30)
RB -- Owomoyela (33)
LB -- Schmelzer (28), Dede (16)
CB -- Subotic (34), Hummels (30), Santana (25)
CM -- Sahin (33), **Bender (19), **Feulner (9), Tinga (7), Kehl (6), **Le Tallec (4)
AM -- **Grosskreutz (32), Jakub (32), Hajnal (21), **Gotze (5)
CF -- **Barrios (33), Valdez (28), Zidan (27), **Rangelov (10)

The final changes in 10/11 - the season they won it - Klopp made his finishing touches; 3 major changes - at RB (adding Piszczek), AM (promoting Gotze to play more), and CF (adding Lewandowski). Added depth in a couple of other spots (CM and AM).

10/11
GK -- Weidenfeller (33)
RB -- **Piszczek (33), Owomoyela (6)
LB -- Schmelzer (34), Dede (4)
CB -- Hummels (33), Subotic (31), Santana (13)
CM -- Bender (31), Sahin (30), **da Silva (22), Feulner (6), Kehl (6),
AM -- Grosskreutz (34), Gotze (33), Jakub (29), **Kagawa (18)
CF -- **Lewandowski (33), Barrios (32), Zidan (8)
 
I can see this being like houllier first summer, when we brought 5/6 first teamers into the squad.
 
hamstrung_pigeon said:
07/08 <-- before Klopp
GK -- Ziegler (15), Weidenfeller (14)
RB -- Rukavina (14), Degen (10)
LB -- Dede (30)
CB -- Kovac (22), Worns (20), Amedick (16), Hummels (13), Brzenska (12)
CM -- Tinga (33), Kringe (27), Kruska (23), Kehl (14)
AM -- Federico (30), Buckley (31), Jakub (24)
CF -- Petric (29), Klimowicz (28), Valdez (27), Frei (13)

08/09 <-- 1st season
GK -- Weidenfeller (32)
RB -- **Owomoyela (26), **Young-Pyo (18), Ruvakina (5)
LB -- Dede (13), **Schmelzer (12)
CB -- **Subotic (33), **Santana (23), Hummels (12), Kovac (4)
CM -- Kringe (29), Kehl (28), Tinga (27), Şahin (25), Kruska (2)
AM -- **Hajnal (30), Jakub (27), **Boateng (10), Frederico (3), Buckley (3)
CF -- **Zidan (29), Frei (29), Valdez (29), Klimowicz (11), **Kullmann (7)
Click to expand...
He let Degen go first season. Is that the same Degen who went on to become a Liverpool favourite?
 
I'd be interested to see how he handles the outgoings. Clearly, given his suggestion that we should not be loaning out so many players, we will be looking to see more than we buy. If we could bring in Xhaka, Teixeira and Matip and perhaps a left back, who would be sold:

my thoughts: Lallana, J.Teixeira, Balotelli, Benteke/Sturridge, Illori, Skrtel/Sakho, Moreno, Bogdan, Enrique, Toure, maybe Allen, Alberto.

I like to see each position having experienced and youth cover.
 
Lots of rumours that we're scouting left-backs (R Rodriguez, Jonas Hector, Chilwell) suggests Moreno will be either moved forward or will be ousted in the summer.
 
If the last 5 seasons are any guide, we generally need to achieve a +25 goal difference or better, while conceding 41 or under to get into the top four.

Last 5 4th place finishers:
-- Goals allowed: 37, 41, 37, 41, 43
-- Goals scored: 62, 68, 72, 66, 72
-- Goal difference: 25, 27, 35, 25, 29

So it seems that to just get 4th, we've to cut out about 8 to 10 goals at the back, while adding about 25 goals.

Like Reina at the end of his spell here, Mignolet is responsible for directly gifting about 4 to 6 goals a season. I think a new keeper and a new pair of CBs, with the return of Gomez and Flanagan, should help in the defensive improvement.
Out: Bogdan, Ward, Wisdom, Sakho, Lovren, Toure, Enrique

A solid new striker and attacking midfielder, together with the return of the Ings, Firmino having a season under his belt, and hopefully Origi and Ibe improving (they definitely need to make a bigger step forward), should help on the other end.
Out: Luis Alberto, Markovic, Balotelli, Benteke, Sturridge

And then a CM to tie everything together.
Out: Lucas, Allen

Fuck 4th, win title. FIFAbulous planning there. Thank me next season.
 
peterhague said:
The squad is way too big. I'd look to sell about 10 of them for £100m or so, and spend it on 3 top class first teamers. Something like

Mignolet
Sakho
Skrtel
Allen
Milner
Lallana
Lucas
Luis Alberto
Benteke
Balotelli
Click to expand...

That would leave us with only Henderson and Can in midfield and one of them is now perma crocked. We would need to sign way more than 3 players to fill out the squad. Especially as we already need a left back, defensive mid and a striker.

Dont think Milner will be going anywhere.
 
RedStar said:
That would leave us with only Henderson and Can in midfield and one of them is now perma crocked. We would need to sign way more than 3 players to fill out the squad. Especially as we already need a left back, defensive mid and a striker.

Dont think Milner will be going anywhere.
Click to expand...

I've already said we should sign a couple of more players with the normal budget. Grujic has already been signed too.

But it's true that MF is a particular mess. I think I'd sell all of them if I could. I certainly wouldn't buy any of them.
 
8 of the players over 21 who would therefore have to be registered and take 1 of the 25 places have probably played less than 10 combined number of games:
Ward; Ilori; McLaughlin; Smith: Teixeira: Dunn: Stewart; Yesil
Of those I can only see maybe Ward and Smith staying can't blamed the others if they want out they are never going to get a look in. Wisdom can probably be added to the list as well. so much for our academy. this would also include Sinclair but he'll be gone this window
 
peterhague said:
I've already said we should sign a couple of more players with the normal budget. Grujic has already been signed too.

But it's true that MF is a particular mess. I think I'd sell all of them if I could. I certainly wouldn't buy any of them.
Click to expand...

Well, Klopp already bought Grujic and is clearly in the market for at least one more CM or DM (so far we've been more or less credibly linked with Xhaka and this Zielinsky lad). I think it's clear that he rates Can, and Hendo also is not going anywhere – although if his injury issues don't get solved completely, he might lose some of his importance in the team. Also Brannagan will probably get some chances next season, Klopp did the same for Dortmund's best academy graduates.

So in the summer we probably bring in one senior CM/DM and start the season with this new signing, Can, Hendo as senior midfielders + Grujic and Brannagan (who will both be 20 by that time) as "projects" who will be hopefully progressing quickly and knocking on the door of the first team. This means one of Allen or Lucas will be let go for sure, but there is possibly room in the squad for one of them if Klopp is OK with the player sticking around for one more season. All evidence points to Allen leaving and Lucas staying, but I just have a hunch it will somehow be the other way around.

We also have Milner, but since Klopp almost never played him at CM, I don't think we can count him in that quota anyway. Unfortunately for him, his role at Liverpool under Klopp will probably not be any greater than what he had at Man City – a part-time winger and jack-of-all-trades.
 
Last edited:
The problem with assuming we'll develop along the Dortmund line is the man who built the squad was Zorc rather than Klopp , wasn't it ?
 
peterhague said:
I've already said we should sign a couple of more players with the normal budget. Grujic has already been signed too.

But it's true that MF is a particular mess. I think I'd sell all of them if I could. I certainly wouldn't buy any of them.
Click to expand...

Certainly an interesting criteria, who of our current squad would we actually buy if they were available? Very few I would think, Henderson, Clyne, Coutinho possibly Can. Wow thats fucking depressing.
 
RedStar said:
Certainly an interesting criteria, who of our current squad would we actually buy if they were available? Very few I would think, Henderson, Clyne, Coutinho possibly Can. Wow thats fucking depressing.
Click to expand...

Maybe that question deserves its own thread. I would buy Coutinho, Can, Clyne, Henderson, Firmino, Origi, and Gomez; for the right price I would consider both Lovren and Sakho (I actually wanted to buy Lovren at the time, then his performances made me give up on him – now I'm starting to think he is pretty good again. Weird player). And like all of us, I'd love to buy the pre-injury Sturridge, especially at the price we paid. Even with all the injuries we've gotten a pretty good deal. I wound't pay another team to buy Flanno, but I'm glad he's here 🙂 Oh, and if I don't have to pay "an English premium," I'd be OK with buying Ibe too.

So it's not too bad, even Real Madrid fans probably wouldn't buy half of the players in their own team.
 
rurikbird said:
Maybe that question deserves its own thread. I would buy Coutinho, Can, Clyne, Henderson, Firmino, Origi, and Gomez; for the right price I would consider both Lovren and Sakho (I actually wanted to buy Lovren at the time, then his performances made me give up on him – now I'm starting to think he is pretty good again). And like all of us, I'd love to buy the pre-injury Sturridge, especially at the price we paid. Even with all the injuries we've gotten a pretty good deal. I wound't pay to buy Flanno, but I'm glad he's here 🙂 Oh, and if I don't have to pay "an English premium," I'd be OK with buying Ibe too.

So it's not too bad, even Real Madrid fans probably wouldn't buy half of the players in their own team.
Click to expand...

I cant make a call Gomez yet, you never know how a player will come back from an injury like that, hopefully it doesnt affect him but he wouldnt be the first promising young player derailed by a horrible injury. With Ibe Im not so sure hed make the cut, I reckon if he played for Spurs or West Ham we would think he was seriously over rated, hes not exactly set the world alight so far despite the endless opportunities he gets, he needs to up his contribution considerably. As for Lovren, no way would we touch him now if he was offered, he has had about 3 good games in the last 18 months.
 
RedStar said:
I cant make a call Gomez yet, you never know how a player will come back from an injury like that, hopefully it doesnt affect him but he wouldnt be the first promising young player derailed by a horrible injury. With Ibe Im not so sure hed make the cut, I reckon if he played for Spurs or West Ham we would think he was seriously over rated, hes not exactly set the world alight so far despite the endless opportunities he gets, he needs to up his contribution considerably. As for Lovren, no way would we touch him now if he was offered, he has had about 3 good games in the last 18 months.
Click to expand...

Right, I wouldn't buy him based on the actual contribution he made so far, but I did want to buy him at the time, so I can't claim post factum that I wouldn't.
 
Rosco said:
The problem with assuming we'll develop along the Dortmund line is the man who built the squad was Zorc rather than Klopp , wasn't it ?
Click to expand...

From what I read in a Dortmund reddit forum (is that the correct term they use?), there are 3 voices in the transfer decisions - Zorc, Klopp and Watzke. Not sure how accurate that is, but supposedly major transfers don't get through without unanimity in their votes, or something like that. Zorc might handle some of the lesser value transfers, from what I gather from that, and an article I read somewhere quoting Honigstein. Something to dig up one day I suppose.

And yes, we can't assume we'll go that same way. It's interesting though, that the changes happened like they did because Zorc was there quite a few years before Klopp - so he put that team together which then got torn down in Klopp's first season. Maybe I'll have to take a look at what Dortmund was doing in the market before that, but I'm not sure how helpful that is because they were having some financial problems during that time I think.
 
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