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Beamrider said:
I think this is right. I do still think we were more tired because we had done more pressing than the other top teams (because we gave the ball away more and had to win it back more), and also because we went deep in all 4 competitions. But the turnaround from being totally dominant in that Utd game, 2 up and it should have been at least double that, to somehow losing it, and the impact that had on our belief, was definitely what did for us for the rest of the season. And I don't think knowing Klopp was leaving helped at that point, as it made it harder for him to inspire the team once the "do it for the boss" bounce had faded.
I think when a team goes out believing they're going to win, then they find the will to play through the fatigue. But when the belief is gone, it's easy, mentally, to throw in the towel. Most of those games where we dropped points are games that we should, and on the day, could have won. But the players didn't believe we would.
United did to us what Divock did to Barca.
Click to expand...

Yeah - I’d like to see stats compared to Arsenal, because I think their pressing game was much more aggressive than ours.

I also think the “chasing the ball” is overstated because we still dominated possession lot.

That’s not to say there aren’t players that are meant to run a lot - but that’s what a box-to-box midfielder would do, no?

I’ve seen players run themselves into the ground during games - Dom, The Boy, Diaz, particularly - but then be up and ready for the next game.
 
Beamrider said:
I think it's a combination of:
- recruiting injury-prone players (Jota, Matip, Thiago, Konate etc) who are always going to have spells on the sidelines
- previously injury-resilient players getting older (Mo, Robbo)
- the style we play
But I think the style we play, and our clumsiness with the ball last season, made all the underlying problems worse. It's not the single cause, but it is a factor that affects everything else.
And I think we have to mention the league as well. Because the PL is so physically intense, it means players who have done OK in other leagues may struggle more here because the game is so much quicker.
Click to expand...

And that’s fair - it is physically intense - I think West Hams players ran the most last season - because they were chasing the ball a lot.

I think there is merit to the argument that some of our players are not robust enough for the league - but then we also had players like Salah, who clearly is robust enough and who’s form went off a cliff (or his end product certainly did) despite playing less games that previous seasons.

So again, I go back to it was a myriad of problems, likely unique and specific to each player - like Gravy just getting into form, then injured - CJ, same - Darwin’s stays pre and post his injury are very different, Dom falling off a cliff. Bradley getting injured and Trent too.

A lot of this feels like they lost their rhythm and just couldn’t get it back.

Maybe Klopp was too slow in putting The Boy in not playing Quansah more consistently. Maybe we should have kept Carvalho rather than loan him to Hull.
 
Looks like Salah will be allowed to leave for Free. Sounds bizarre to me, that an asset worth £215m last is season will be allowed to leave for nothing. I can't blame Klopp for that, that's down to FSG.
Its a stupid decision!!! One I hope doesn't come back to bite us in the butt
 
is it one of the 1+1=2 stories?

chelsea need to sell home grown + liverpool definitely wanted him last season

he’s alright isn’t he but like @binomial says not sure about huge money for him
 
I like colwill, seems like he'd be an excellent matip replacement rather than a van dijk replacement however.
 
Beamrider said:
I think this is right. I do still think we were more tired because we had done more pressing than the other top teams (because we gave the ball away more and had to win it back more), and also because we went deep in all 4 competitions. But the turnaround from being totally dominant in that Utd game, 2 up and it should have been at least double that, to somehow losing it, and the impact that had on our belief, was definitely what did for us for the rest of the season. And I don't think knowing Klopp was leaving helped at that point, as it made it harder for him to inspire the team once the "do it for the boss" bounce had faded.
I think when a team goes out believing they're going to win, then they find the will to play through the fatigue. But when the belief is gone, it's easy, mentally, to throw in the towel. Most of those games where we dropped points are games that we should, and on the day, could have won. But the players didn't believe we would.
United did to us what Divock did to Barca.
Click to expand...

The only thing I'd add is Klopp placed faith in injured senior players returning quickly to full form during a crucial part of the season and it largely backfired. The likes of Salah, Szobo, Trent, Jones came straight back into the side and performed poorly until the final game. They were meant to provide a boost but it was anything but. Klopp admitting he should have utilised Elliott more makes me think he probably was selecting more on names and experience than what he was seeing on the training ground and in games. With hindsight I suspect some of the starting elevens would have looked pretty different. That's more on the players than Klopp. They had been sat on the sidelines for weeks, were well rested, and they didn't get themselves up to speed fast enough to win silverware.
 
big fan of Mbuemo, he was out for a few months recently but according to transfermrkt that has been his only injury aside from a bit of covid.

i’m not sure how good a fit he is for us but then again i don’t know the slot way so he may be perfect.
 
Hyena said:
Not that Bakayoko nonsense
Click to expand...
Oi!

Bakayoko is legit. Hopefully Salah jets off enabling us to sign the pair of them. Throw in Doak to complement those 2 and that's our right side sorted for the next 7-8 years.
 
Beamrider said:
I think this is right. I do still think we were more tired because we had done more pressing than the other top teams (because we gave the ball away more and had to win it back more), and also because we went deep in all 4 competitions. But the turnaround from being totally dominant in that Utd game, 2 up and it should have been at least double that, to somehow losing it, and the impact that had on our belief, was definitely what did for us for the rest of the season. And I don't think knowing Klopp was leaving helped at that point, as it made it harder for him to inspire the team once the "do it for the boss" bounce had faded.
I think when a team goes out believing they're going to win, then they find the will to play through the fatigue. But when the belief is gone, it's easy, mentally, to throw in the towel. Most of those games where we dropped points are games that we should, and on the day, could have won. But the players didn't believe we would.
United did to us what Divock did to Barca.
Click to expand...

I think we finished 3rd in terms of possession in the league, behind City and surprisingly Spurs l but ahead of Arsenal.

I also think our press wasn’t as furious as previous seasons and we tended to drop off a little because we wanted teams to attack us to create space do we could hit them quickly in transition - that’s were we operate more.

We do press, but we also sit off - you see it more with Gakpo, I think, he’s not really chasing defenders down when he plays, I always notice him dropping deep and constantly looking over his shoulder to se were opposition players are. To cut out passing lanes.

I agree that injuries were the problem - we lost our rhythm then out belief at the wrong time because of too many changes - but a lot of them were to do with injuries cause by tackles, rather than overwork or being soft.

Arsenal got so close to City because they didn’t lose key players to injury and kept a settled team. City just coped with their injuries better than we did.
 
Markeh said:
big fan of Mbuemo, he was out for a few months recently but according to transfermrkt that has been his only injury aside from a bit of covid.

i’m not sure how good a fit he is for us but then again i don’t know the slot way so he may be perfect.
Click to expand...


The way I see it

Guys like Bakayoko, Nusa, Guilherme are where Mbuemo was five years ago. The difference is that in that five years Mbuemo has:

(1) survived in the Prem with a shitty team
(2) learned to finish and stopped hitting the woodwork
(3) reduced his bad decision making
(4) thrived against good defences
(5) showed that he can be both the main man as well as the provider
(6) been seriously injured only once

and

(7) kept his mouth shut and not been a total prick

​

 
Hyena said:
The way I see it

Guys like Bakayoko, Nusa, Guilherme are where Mbuemo was five years ago. The difference is that in that five years Mbuemo has:

(1) survived in the Prem with a shitty team
(2) learned to finish and stopped hitting the woodwork
(3) reduced his bad decision making
(4) thrived against good defences
(5) showed that he can be both the main man as well as the provider
(6) been seriously injured only once

and

(7) kept his mouth shut and not been a total prick

​

Click to expand...

i do like him but i think the Jota comparison @The Nomad makes is pretty solid. very good player but not the tricky beat a man and create a chance out of nothing winger we’d probably ideally want in a klopp side.

might slot right in though, i personally had him down as a bit of a bobby type player who links play up
 
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