Sunlit Uplands

[StevieM]

If only we had voted to join it in the first place and had a say on the succeeding treaties that changed it from a common market to a proto-country with it's own flag, anthem and it's full integration stated aims etc, then it may have withstood the referendum and the three and a half years of trying to overturn a democratic vote. It didn't.

Truth is, it was never going to survive. That is not the Europeans fault, it is because the majority of British voters do not agree with it's lack of democratic accountability or it's one-size-fits-all policies. The EU is quite entitled to look after what it thinks is its own best interests just as the British are.

Whatever you think of the merits of the arguments on either side the democratic choice has been made and the union left legally.

Yep - so whatever happens next, for good or ill will be the responsibility of the people who made that decision.

No longer will it be the fault of the EU, foreigners, Remoaners, Corbyn, Cameron, Austerity, the GFC, Tusk, Barnier, Ted Heath, WW2, James O’Brien, Brussels, Greta Thunberg, Teresa May, Tony Blair, Keir Starmer, Tory Rebels... blah, blah, blah...

Brexit & a thumping Tory majority with labour decimated - No excuses - no more arguments about it - you have everything you always wanted.

 

[hmmmmm1]

There always be another excuse.

 

[jexykrodic]

Yep - so whatever happens next, for good or ill will be the responsibility of the people who made that decision.

No longer will it be the fault of the EU, foreigners, Remoaners, Corbyn, Cameron, Austerity, the GFC, Tusk, Barnier, Ted Heath, WW2, James O’Brien, Brussels, Greta Thunberg, Teresa May, Tony Blair, Keir Starmer, Tory Rebels... blah, blah, blah...

Brexit & a thumping Tory majority with labour decimated - No excuses - no more arguments about it - you have everything you always wanted.

I see that you are still ignoring the fact that I voted remain. Even so I think it is important that if there is a democratic vote then that decision is carried forward. It has been. That pleases me. It's far more important than any individual or organization.

I am happy that my own country and countrymen have the responsibility for the way forward. I always suspected the EU didn't really have our interests at heart though I was prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt. It has being amply proven since they are only interested in cash.

I am one of many remain voters who would now vote leave simply because of the hostility shown towards us on the part of the EU and the remain supporters who used any device to try to overturn the vote.

I have taken great pleasure watching them be voted out of office or sidelined. They richly deserve it.

 

[StevieM]

I see that you are still ignoring the fact that I voted remain. Even so I think it is important that if there is a democratic vote then that decision is carried forward. It has been. That pleases me. It's far more important than any individual or organization.

I am happy that my own country and countrymen have the responsibility for the way forward. I always suspected the EU didn't really have our interests at heart though I was prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt. It has being amply proven since they are only interested in cash.

I am one of many remain voters who would now vote leave simply because of the hostility shown towards us on the part of the EU and the remain supporters who used any device to try to overturn the vote.

I have taken great pleasure watching them be voted out of office or sidelined. They richly deserve it.

Hostility shown by the EU???? I suppose if the media you follow comes primarily from the UK that might be the case.

From afar - it doesn’t look like the EU has been the hostile ones.

I also don’t get this “doesn’t have the UK’s interests at heart” nonsense - unless you means doesn’t put the UK’s interests before everyone else’s.

I haven’t forgotten how you voted - it’s as relevant as the fact I didn’t vote in the referendum.

Like I said - you should be happy now - you have everything you wanted - all the annoying people who tried to stop, for whatever reason, what’s coming next, are out of the picture - so the promised sunny uplands should be delivered without fail.

 

[Mors]

Any chance this thread could be shared with one about the details of the rapture that has appeared since Saturday

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallm...-britains-total-eu-contributions-infographic/

 

[StevieM]

James O’Brien is currently asking people to phone in with things Sajid Javid can introduce in the budget to remove EU red tape and be able to do things .

The list so far and these are genuine is :

- Something about washing machine power
- Allowed to be able to destroy bat habitats to build houses
- Allow people to work more than 48 hours a week - so that people can when their employer requires it.
- The death penalty
- Removal of “quotas” for hiring nurses from Non EU countries like the Phillipines & Nigeria
- Bigger vaping tanks & cheaper vaping liquid
- Allow bendy bananas
- Reduced fees and testing of competence for professional driving
- Removal of the Bosman rule

Can’t wait.

 

[StevieM]

- removal of tariffs on cheap electric bikes imported from China.

 

[StevieM]

- removal of tampon tax

 

[Richey]

In fairness, some of those do have sensible points behind them.

For the removal of tariffs, if you take the view that all imports into the EU that are not allowed, or have tariffs etc are unsafe then it will sound silly to want to have them, but I don’t think that is the case. In many cases there are tariffs purely in order to protect EU producers, so in theory it could be a good thing not to be tied into that.

And with the tampon tax, that is also just an example to illustrate the point that we do have to apply a baseline VAT rate and can’t reduce it to zero whilst in the EU. Again, people may not think it is a massive deal, and with some justification most would assume that the govt is not about to abolish VAT on loads of products anyway, but that doesn’t make it a silly suggestion.

I haven’t really got the time to go through the others, but for balance, I think the bendy bananas thing is about common standards, and has always been a bit of a joke of an example and doesn’t make much sense. Any UK exporter would still have to comply with these kind of standards as otherwise they would be producing one product for export to the EU and one for export to the rest of the World.

 

[StevieM]

I’d expect there should be some benefits to leaving the EU.

Of course tariffs are in place to protect EU workers (UK included).

You point about unsafe things doesn’t quite work because that would be covered by standards as a non-tariff barrier.

I mean in theory non are stupid - so you have :

- removal of environmental protection legislation
- removal of protection on employment regulations
- less indirect tax
- less regulations and costs governing safety in domestic service delivery
- enhanced ability to import things direct from countries with lower OHS, employment & safety standards,
- certainly, in theory, be able to get quality products at a cheaper price from removal of tariffs
- equally, in theory, be able to import things that have lower quality or safety standards

All legitimate and certainly capable, along with the suggestion of greater freedom of movement from non-EU countries of delivering economic growth for the UK.

 

[Treboeth]

- removal of tariffs on cheap electric bikes imported from China.

Good old Boris loves a bike 😉
Look how he's helping the jobless,they don't even have to pedal anymore Tebbit would be proud.
Thank God for the Tories

 

[Woland]

There's a lovely old pub round the corner from us, been terribly run for a couple of decades, shut, and property devs have bought it and got plans for a load of houses. I went past the other day and noticed that the work that had started months ago was shelved, so I asked around and they said the problem was bats in the attic, which made me all like as fucking if... but then I googled and it's 5k for each bat you kill. That's a sterling figure so I dunno whether or not this is EU law, but either way that seems pretty batshit to me.

 

[Woland]

Bit more googling. They're protected by 14 separate laws, at least half of which seem british (UK priority species, wildlife and countryside act 1981, conservations of habitats and species act, etc) and some seem EU (EUROBATS agreements, Bern Convention, Bonn Convention. The first one is the one that bills you 5 grand a bat, (The WCA 1981), and that's a UK thing.

14 acts protecting bats. Now that's a gravy train. Must be a fucker unravelling all this shit.

 

[Athens]

Like a bat in the attic
I'll be here when the morning comes
Oh when brexit happens
Like a bat in the attic
I'll be here here here
Like a bat in the attic
I'll be here when the morning comes
Cause when brexit happens
And the UK leaves the EU
They're still a protected species
And every death will cost 5k to you


Probably needs a bit of work before it's a hit.

 

[Richey]

I’d expect there should be some benefits to leaving the EU.

Of course tariffs are in place to protect EU workers (UK included).

You point about unsafe things doesn’t quite work because that would be covered by standards as a non-tariff barrier.

I mean in theory non are stupid - so you have :

- removal of environmental protection legislation
- removal of protection on employment regulations
- less indirect tax
- less regulations and costs governing safety in domestic service delivery
- enhanced ability to import things direct from countries with lower OHS, employment & safety standards,
- certainly, in theory, be able to get quality products at a cheaper price from removal of tariffs
- equally, in theory, be able to import things that have lower quality or safety standards

All legitimate and certainly capable, along with the suggestion of greater freedom of movement from non-EU countries of delivering economic growth for the UK.

Tariffs can still be in place to protect UK industry though, surely? All countries can and will do that, but not all countries have to have tariffs in place to protect the industries of other countries.

If we are not talking about unsafe (or unsafe in the view of the EU, where it has been argued that the line between what is unsafe and what is something they just do not want can become blurred) then the issue falls away even more. If the UK can have goods at a cheaper rate which are currently conforming to EU standards but are expensive then where is the issue?

 

[jexykrodic]

Tariffs can still be in place to protect UK industry though, surely? All countries can and will do that, but not all countries have to have tariffs in place to protect the industries of other countries.

If we are not talking about unsafe (or unsafe in the view of the EU, where it has been argued that the line between what is unsafe and what is something they just do not want can become blurred) then the issue falls away even more. If the UK can have goods at a cheaper rate which are currently conforming to EU standards but are expensive then where is the issue?

@Richey You're failing the project Fear exam spectacularly. You need a period of reeducation.

 

[Rosco]

James O’Brien is currently asking people to phone in with things Sajid Javid can introduce in the budget to remove EU red tape and be able to do things .

The list so far and these are genuine is :

- Something about washing machine power
- Allowed to be able to destroy bat habitats to build houses
- Allow people to work more than 48 hours a week - so that people can when their employer requires it.
- The death penalty
- Removal of “quotas” for hiring nurses from Non EU countries like the Phillipines & Nigeria
- Bigger vaping tanks & cheaper vaping liquid
- Allow bendy bananas
- Reduced fees and testing of competence for professional driving
- Removal of the Bosman rule

Can’t wait.

Duty free drink and cigarettes !

 

[Athens]

Duty free drink and cigarettes !

Newry will be the duty free capital of the UK.

 

[StevieM]

There's a lovely old pub round the corner from us, been terribly run for a couple of decades, shut, and property devs have bought it and got plans for a load of houses. I went past the other day and noticed that the work that had started months ago was shelved, so I asked around and they said the problem was bats in the attic, which made me all like as fucking if... but then I googled and it's 5k for each bat you kill. That's a sterling figure so I dunno whether or not this is EU law, but either way that seems pretty batshit to me.

Unfortunately those bats don’t seem to be from Hell, on the basis that they were still there the next morning.

 

[StevieM]

Tariffs can still be in place to protect UK industry though, surely? All countries can and will do that, but not all countries have to have tariffs in place to protect the industries of other countries.

If we are not talking about unsafe (or unsafe in the view of the EU, where it has been argued that the line between what is unsafe and what is something they just do not want can become blurred) then the issue falls away even more. If the UK can have goods at a cheaper rate which are currently conforming to EU standards but are expensive then where is the issue?

Of course it’s good - I did include that in the list - of course that would all be predicated on delivering a Free Trade Agreement with the country the goods are imported from.

The only question I’d ask - and I’m sure there will be reasons - but why would a nation seek to give a preferential tariff on goods above that which it gives to a larger market to conform to that market.

The obvious answer is around countries that don’t have a FTA with the EU - mainly the US, I suppose - which I’m sure will try to redress their current trade deficit with the UK, understandably.

Like I said - it’s a positive - I mean it’s hard to tell how much on account of not knowing what the products are - but I’m sure there are some.

 

[StevieM]

Tariffs can still be in place to protect UK industry though, surely? All countries can and will do that, but not all countries have to have tariffs in place to protect the industries of other countries.

If we are not talking about unsafe (or unsafe in the view of the EU, where it has been argued that the line between what is unsafe and what is something they just do not want can become blurred) then the issue falls away even more. If the UK can have goods at a cheaper rate which are currently conforming to EU standards but are expensive then where is the issue?

Of course it’s good - I did include that in the list - of course that would all be predicated on delivering a Free Trade Agreement with the country the goods are imported from.

The only question I’d ask - and I’m sure there will be reasons - but why would a nation seek to give a preferential tariff on goods above that which it gives to a larger market to conform to that market.

The obvious answer is around countries that don’t have a FTA with the EU.

The e-bike import tariff was raised by a UK importer due to 60-80% tariffs from China. He’s had to shift his manufacturing to Taiwan which has a 6% tariff - presume it costs more there - but not as much as the Dutch & German manufacturers.

Unfortunately if Taiwan dont

Bit more googling. They're protected by 14 separate laws, at least half of which seem british (UK priority species, wildlife and countryside act 1981, conservations of habitats and species act, etc) and some seem EU (EUROBATS agreements, Bern Convention, Bonn Convention. The first one is the one that bills you 5 grand a bat, (The WCA 1981), and that's a UK thing.

14 acts protecting bats. Now that's a gravy train. Must be a fucker unravelling all this shit.

Do we know if the bats are Polish?

 

[Lippy]

Oh look. No frictionless trade as was promised continually by Leavers and any alternative dismissed as Project Fear. It's almost as if they knew this all along.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-51453189

 

[Woland]

It's ace isn't it? It's been great for our democracy though, as unelected elites Carrie Symonds and Dominic Cummings are at war over who will be in the cabinet and Johnson's dad discusses trade deals with the Chinese. Woohoo.

 

[Lippy]

BBC News
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Brexit: Border delays 'could cause fresh food problems'

• 11 February 2020
  
• Business

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Image copyrightGETTY IMAGES

Post-Brexit transition border checks could cause fresh food supply problems, an industry body has warned.

Shoppers will notice the supply issues next January unless there is a "massive upgrade" in border facilities, the British Retail Consortium said.

The warning came after cabinet minister Michael Gove said that border checks are "inevitable" after the Brexit transition period ends on 31 December.

Officials said firms have enough time to prepare for the changes.

Food availability
Border checks could quickly cause hold-ups at Channel ports of thousands of trucks, including those carrying fresh food, the BRC said.

The government will have to "move fast" to put in place the necessary border infrastructure and staff to cope with those checks by the end of the year, it said.

If it doesn't, "consumers in the UK will see significant disruption, particularly in the availability of fresh fruit and vegetables" the BRC's director of food and sustainability Andrew Opie warned.

"If you think this is going to hit us in January, that's our peak import season for things like fresh fruit and vegetables. Customers are really going to see the problems on supermarket shelves unless we get that infrastructure," he said.

"So, you've got enormous bureaucracy, enormous change, but crucially you've got a problem with the infrastructure at the key ports around the Channel, which currently really act as an extension of the motorway for our supply chain, where you will be holding thousands of vehicles every day."

"I don't know if you've been to Dover recently, but there isn't an enormous amount of room to hold that infrastructure," he added.

'Inevitable' border checks
The warning came after Mr Gove told a Border Delivery Group event on Monday: "The UK will be outside the single market and outside the customs union, so we will have to be ready for the customs procedures and regulatory checks that will inevitably follow."

• Brexit: Jargon-busting guide to the key terms
• Brexit: What trade deals has the UK done so far?
• Brexit trade: What do the UK and EU want?

The Brexit transition period is due to end at 11pm on 31 December this year.

From then, there will be import checks at the UK border, and traders in the EU and UK will have extra paperwork, the government said .

From next January, all traders will have to fill out customs declarations and be liable to customs checks on goods for cross-channel trade.

If no trade deal is reached with the EU, taxes such as tariffs will also need to be charged and collected.

Image copyrightGETTY IMAGES

Image captionMichael Gove said businesses must be ready for 'customs procedures and regulatory checks'
Facilities such as the Channel Tunnel have been designed for minimal border checks.

New customs infrastructure, facilities and systems as well as staff, agents and vets will have to be in place by the end of this year.

But Mr Gove told the conference there would be light touch administration of trade across the Irish Sea.

However, last week it emerged that Stena Line, the biggest operator of ferries in the Irish Sea, is preparing for trade checks between Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

It was quietly confirmed in a speech. Some might argue it has been inevitable since the election.

But the change in the way the UK trade border functions with our biggest trade partner is one of the single biggest changes to the way the UK economy functions.

Put simply, many industries rely on the frictionless free flow of goods between the UK and the continent.

The unequivocal message from Michael Gove is that businesses should prepare for the the end of that as 2020 draws to a close.

Whereas the impact of all this in the Irish Sea has garnered considerable attention, the new trading arrangements between Dover and Calais and along the Channel Tunnel will have a bigger effect on the economy.

By getting businesses to take the prospect seriously, the government's hope is that more will be prepared and so delays and disruption can be limited.

But we are dealing with parts of the border that are designed to run without checks.

There will need to be more customs officers, thousands more customs agents, mass recruitment of vets, and new customs posts.

Almost every independent economic analysis - and the government's own until now - has shown that extra trade friction with what is currently our biggest market will be an overall hit to the economy.

Preparation can help alleviate some of that hit, but not all.

Added costs
Businesses also said they face extra costs from checks. The British Chambers of Commerce (BCC) said that for many businesses, border delays would incur higher costs than tariffs.

Adam Marshall, the BCC director general, said: "Additional friction will equal higher costs for a lot of our business, and while the discussion over the past few months has focussed a lot on tariffs, it's actually these border costs... that really is the biggest source of cost for most."

EU trade will not be waved through with zero checks, which would have been the case under a no-deal Brexit.

Traders will not be able to use special arrangements to lodge new paperwork after a grace period at a later date.

Industries from car manufacturers to food distributors, which rely on the frictionless free flow of goods with the continent, say they face extra costs, delays and red tape from what are known as non-tariff barriers.

Products of animal origin will need export certificates from a registered vet.

More on this story

Scottish salmon producers warn of 'huge' Brexit burden
10 February 2020


Brexit divorce: Five key things the UK must navigate
09 February 2020


Ports plan for Brexit Irish Sea checks
03 February 2020

Copyright © 2020 BBC. The BBC is not responsible for the content of external sites.

 

[gene hughes]

Bit more googling. They're protected by 14 separate laws, at least half of which seem british (UK priority species, wildlife and countryside act 1981, conservations of habitats and species act, etc) and some seem EU (EUROBATS agreements, Bern Convention, Bonn Convention. The first one is the one that bills you 5 grand a bat, (The WCA 1981), and that's a UK thing.

14 acts protecting bats. Now that's a gravy train. Must be a fucker unravelling all this shit.

I think eurobats is UN rather than EU.

 

[Lippy]

 

[Rosco]

The position of a UK traveller from Schipol hasn't changed.
Passport control was necessary pre Brexit because the UK aren't in Schengen. Same as Ireland.

 

[Treboeth]

The position of a UK traveller from Schipol hasn't changed.
Passport control was necessary pre Brexit because the UK aren't in Schengen. Same as Ireland.

Facts facts facts
What about the fume 😉

 

[Lippy]

The position of a UK traveller from Schipol hasn't changed.
Passport control was necessary pre Brexit because the UK aren't in Schengen. Same as Ireland.

Best tell Colin then