Taking a knee is degrading

[Rosco]

Wilfried Zaha: Taking a knee is degrading and we should just stand tall

Wilfried Zaha believes taking the knee before matches is “degrading”. Picture: Richard Heathcote/NMC Pool/PA

THU, 18 FEB, 2021 - 19:37
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Wilfried Zaha has reiterated his belief that taking the knee before matches is “degrading” and insists that on the subject of racism: “Unless action is going to happen, don’t speak to me about it.”





Since project restart last summer, players, officials and staff at Premier League and EFL games have been taking the knee prior to kick-off to show support for the movement for racial equality.





Premier League clubs’ shirts also carried the Black Lives Matter slogan during the restarted 2019-20 season before being changed for this season to feature a patch promoting the league’s own anti-discrimination campaign No Room For Racism.





However, racist abuse of footballers on social media has been prevalent in recent weeks and several teams, including Brentford last weekend, have stopped taking the knee before games – something Crystal Palace forward Zaha believes has become an empty gesture.


“Obviously I’ve said before that I feel like taking the knee is degrading and stuff because growing up my parents just let me know that I should be proud to be black no matter what and I feel like we should just stand tall,” Zaha said, speaking at Thursday’s Financial Times’ Business of Football summit.


“Because I feel like taking the knee now, it’s becoming…we do it before games and even sometimes people forget that we have to do it before games.


“Trying to get the meaning behind it, it’s becoming something that we just do now and that’s not enough for me.


I’m not going to take the knee, I’m not going to wear Black Lives Matter on the back of my shirt because it feels like it’s a target.


“We’re isolating ourselves, we’re trying to say that we’re equal but we’re isolating ourselves with these things that aren’t even working anyway, so that’s my stand on it. I feel like we should stand tall and now I don’t really tend to speak on racism and stuff like that because I’m not here just to tick boxes.”

[/QUOTE]

I think he's 100% correct, it's an empty token gesture in the Premier League

 

[dantes]

Yes, even so an FA ban and a fine are in order here I think.

 

[tomasjj]

Look at you two bored internet trolls.

 

[Atlas]

I don't think it's degrading, it's certainly a symbol of attention.
Problem is the attention is there and has been there for months and months, yet tangible difference is very little.

So what now keep kneeling for the next decade?
And that's the contribution to reducing racism.

 

[Rosco]

It's a symbol alright, but it's only a symbol.

If the Premier League were to review their own situation and look at how they could address issues like say the under representation of minorities in senior positions in football clubs and the various agencies involved it would be significantly more impactful than public gestures.

 

[mark1975]

The problem is, it stops becoming a symbol when it's repeated at every game and it just becomes part of the process. The original message sort of gets lost, and I don't mean any disrespect by that, but he's sort of right. The symbol was linked to one event, which sadly has now just become yesterdays news, meanwhile players are still getting racist taunts leveled at them on social media and racial & cultural divide continues.

Taking a knee is not really having an impact now. I get the point, that by continuing to raise awareness with each game they are reminding people and trying to continue to get the message across, that's commendable, but to me the message just gets lost simply because it has just faded into pre-match procedure. I know we sing YNWA prior to every game and it has a huge impact, but that's particular to us, that's our sense of unity that doesn't apply to everyone, it's where we outdo almost every club with how special that message is, but it's part of the competitiveness and our togetherness.

Kick It Out and other anti-racism organisations/charities are doing their bit and have made some difference, but as Ross said, the structure needs to change. This is just demonstrating a point, and it's something that's advocated by the governing body(s), but they don't appear to be taking much actual action towards educating and re-structuring from within their own sport.

 

[Modo]

Yeah, it has lost its effect. Did it even have an effect in England?
It was never about kneeling, it was about kneeling during the American national anthem.

I honestly think most players would choose to stop doing it now.

 

[Woland]

Mane obv isn't arsed.

 

[Farkmaster]

Yeah, it has lost its effect. Did it even have an effect in England?
It was never about kneeling, it was about kneeling during the American national anthem.

I honestly think most players would choose to stop doing it now.

The point was for it to be transgressive. When it's institutionalized by an organization as a token gesture and as cover for their own actual racist practices, it's totally meaningless.

 

[StevieM]

I think all our players should make the effort to take a knee in the Derby.

Preferably Richarlison’s.

 

[dantes]

White people: shit all over black people because they're racist
Black people: draw attention to it by a symbolic act of non-compliance against a symbol of the white people's institutions
White people: make everyone comply with the symbolic act, join in themselves to virtue signal that they're not racist, thus implying black people are protesting over nothing
Black people:

 

[Atlas]

You talk so much rubbish, it's not even 9am and you're revved up already.

 

[dantes]

No, I calculate the actual outcomes of actions, you feel emotions about the actions. That's why you get stuff wrong and fail to solve anything, whilst I solve everything I do.

 

[Brizzle]

At first it definitely got noticed - but it needed to be followed up with actions. Things are getting worse as it is becoming more common for black players to get racially abused online. I also don't fully understand why players and pundits think twitter can stop it and do this ID thing - its a global platform and people can be logging in from Africa/Antartica to do it. Impossible to police - not sure how they address it.

 

[The Nomad]

At first it definitely got noticed - but it needed to be followed up with actions. Things are getting worse as it is becoming more common for black players to get racially abused online. I also don't fully understand why players and pundits think twitter can stop it and do this ID thing - its a global platform and people can be logging in from Africa/Antartica to do it. Impossible to police - not sure how they address it.

The technology exists.

User selects whether to see tweets from IPs outside home country

Home country requires ID to post.

It would cost money on the social media's part, which is why its pushed back.. then you'd get the 'they are spying on us' arguments.

Then a country would debate whether it should be law, and the social media platform will block users in that country trying to provoke outrage.

I feel like I've seen this script before...

 

[My_Blood_Bleeds_Red]

I've said it before and so have many...

The heart of the problem is the problem of the heart.

 

[Delinquent]

No, I calculate the actual outcomes of actions, you feel emotions about the actions. That's why you get stuff wrong and fail to solve anything, whilst I solve everything I do.

You like to paint your lack of emotion as a help, but actually it's a hindrance in these discussions. Your complete lack of any social intelligence means you have only a superficial understanding of things. So while you're sitting there thinking you're on a higher plain, literally everyone else can see that your completely out of your depth.

 

[Atlas]

No, I calculate the actual outcomes of actions, you feel emotions about the actions. That's why you get stuff wrong and fail to solve anything, whilst I solve everything I do.

Robot Dante feels no emotions and accurately calculates ....emotions.

Glad you've managed to solve ..everything.

 

[HC]

You like to paint your lack of emotion as a help, but actually it's a hindrance in these discussions. Your complete lack of any social intelligence means you have only a superficial understanding of things. So while you're sitting there thinking you're on a higher plain, literally everyone else can see that your completely out of your depth.

Dantes 2.0

 

[Woland]

Loads of people post anonymously because they'd be in trouble with relationships or work or whatever so it's the only way they can express what they're really thinking. How many people on here have got their full identities on display? And would it be such a laugh if they did? These kids giving out a bit of abuse tend to get caught. Forcing people to give IDs to social media companies is not the answer.

 

[dantes]

You like to paint your lack of emotion as a help, but actually it's a hindrance in these discussions. Your complete lack of any social intelligence means you have only a superficial understanding of things. So while you're sitting there thinking you're on a higher plain, literally everyone else can see that your completely out of your depth.

As if. I have emotions, they just tend to be of very low importance and are ignored for that reason. Your brain has limited processing power, and if you waste most of it on emotions there is not much left to find solutions. Zaha says he doesn't want to take the knee because it "degrades" him and he feels like he should "stand tall". I can envision how you immediately empathise with him, how you have an urge to respect his feelings and opinions, and start thinking about the situation from his point of view. Zaha is wrong, which is not a shock as he isn't that bright. His explanation for why the knee doesn't sit right with him is an uneducated incorrect assumption. You just lack the cold heartedness to tell yourself that. So you'll never get around to thinking about what is actually making him feel that way, and therefore solve it. That's just the way it is with humans.

 

[keniget]

Loads of people post anonymously because they'd be in trouble with relationships or work or whatever so it's the only way they can express what they're really thinking. How many people on here have got their full identities on display? And would it be such a laugh if they did? These kids giving out a bit of abuse tend to get caught. Forcing people to give IDs to social media companies is not the answer.

Agreed

 

[Silver Sean]

The point was for it to be transgressive. When it's institutionalized by an organization as a token gesture and as cover for their own actual racist practices, it's totally meaningless.

This. It's got the same pointlessness as clapping for the NHS. Does anyone watching actually think about the issues it's supposed to be raising as the players do it?
Racism wont change until the perpetrators are called out and punished massively – monkey chants from fans, instant year ban from that competition etc. Anonymously abusing someone for their colour on social media – exposed, banned for good, fined and humiliated.

 

[Silver Sean]

Loads of people post anonymously because they'd be in trouble with relationships or work or whatever so it's the only way they can express what they're really thinking. How many people on here have got their full identities on display? And would it be such a laugh if they did? These kids giving out a bit of abuse tend to get caught. Forcing people to give IDs to social media companies is not the answer.

If you anonymously abuse people on social media I don't care if you're 14. You deserve a fucking good shoeing. Pathetic little cunts need to reap what they sow.

 

[tombrown]

Loads of people post anonymously because they'd be in trouble with relationships or work or whatever so it's the only way they can express what they're really thinking. How many people on here have got their full identities on display? And would it be such a laugh if they did? These kids giving out a bit of abuse tend to get caught. Forcing people to give IDs to social media companies is not the answer.

AGree

Would be a disaster to use your real name as username on forums like this

 

[Red Mullet]

No, I calculate the actual outcomes of actions, you feel emotions about the actions. That's why you get stuff wrong and fail to solve anything, whilst I solve everything I do.

Except for voter fraud.

Admittedly there was no evidence so it was a hard ask.

 

[Brizzle]

This. It's got the same pointlessness as clapping for the NHS. Does anyone watching actually think about the issues it's supposed to be raising as the players do it?
Racism wont change until the perpetrators are called out and punished massively – monkey chants from fans, instant year ban from that competition etc. Anonymously abusing someone for their colour on social media – exposed, banned for good, fined and humiliated.

I agree with the idea that a no-nonsense approach to the clubs where abuse happens would be a very quick solution. The threat of a ban or points deduction would see a much greater investment and effort put to stop. At the moment I don't think any club does anything more than hope that fans will police each other if it happens.

 

[dantes]

Except for voter fraud.

Admittedly there was no evidence so it was a hard ask.

What's your evidence for racism? Go ahead and prove that there is a significant enough amount of systemic racism as to cause the oppression of minorities... oh I see, you need to account for when your feelings are hurt that you switch your method of analysis. Got it.

 

[Red Mullet]

What's your evidence for racism? Go ahead and prove that there is a significant enough amount of systemic racism as to cause the oppression of minorities... oh I see, you need to account for when your feelings are hurt that you switch your method of analysis. Got it.

I think you’ll find you’re the one switching analysis methods where we all know you backed the wrong horse and started talking about feelings.

Of which you know nothing about.

Something you’ve openly admitted to.

 

[ibromurph]

Loads of people post anonymously because they'd be in trouble with relationships or work or whatever so it's the only way they can express what they're really thinking. How many people on here have got their full identities on display? And would it be such a laugh if they did? These kids giving out a bit of abuse tend to get caught. Forcing people to give IDs to social media companies is not the answer.

I have a middle of the road solution.

It should be OPTIONAL to give your identity to a social media company. And if you do, you should get a "green tick" by your account name.

Then anyone (including footballers and celebs) should have the option of specifying whether they allow ONLY green ticked accounts to message them or post on their walls.

Or whether they allow EVERYONE (green tick or no green tick) to message them.

If someone has only "Green ticks can message me" selected, then you wouldn't be able to racially abuse them without having your details passed on to police.

You can also stop the situation of a green ticked account being hacked but having 2FA. Mind you, it'd be weird if someone went to that length (to hack an account) just to send Marcus Rashford some racist abuse.