The central defence conundrum.
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Fuck all that , form dictates who plays, it does not matter who the fuck it is, and Carragher would be the first to say that.
So far this season Agger has been immense , both at defending and on the ball. So it he earns the first slot.
Until we see Coates play , we can't say that he deserves the second berth or not, but if he plays at some point, looks assured and plays better than Carra then that has to be the choice, there is no room in this game for sentiment......Well there is, but those occasions have to be carefully selected.
I said in a previous thread Carra's worth of late has probably been more to do with organising the defence than his actual play, which is not to be sniffed at.
I suspect that if Coates is a worthy successor to Carra then he will be as pleased as anyone.
regards
So far this season Agger has been immense , both at defending and on the ball. So it he earns the first slot.
Until we see Coates play , we can't say that he deserves the second berth or not, but if he plays at some point, looks assured and plays better than Carra then that has to be the choice, there is no room in this game for sentiment......Well there is, but those occasions have to be carefully selected.
I said in a previous thread Carra's worth of late has probably been more to do with organising the defence than his actual play, which is not to be sniffed at.
I suspect that if Coates is a worthy successor to Carra then he will be as pleased as anyone.
regards
I like all of our centre backs, ive never understood the carra or skrtel bashing.... centre back is not our problem
[quote author=Dylan link=topic=46743.msg1394017#msg1394017 date=1315086536]
The point is, we now have enough options right across the back four to ensure we will have quality there whoever is selected.
[/quote]
Yep.
If Coates turns out to be a good signing we look sorted at the back pretty much regardless of who plays. You could take out our current back 4 and still field a decent defence:
Magic--Coates--Skrtel--Aurelio/Robinson
The point is, we now have enough options right across the back four to ensure we will have quality there whoever is selected.
[/quote]
Yep.
If Coates turns out to be a good signing we look sorted at the back pretty much regardless of who plays. You could take out our current back 4 and still field a decent defence:
Magic--Coates--Skrtel--Aurelio/Robinson
I'm sure coates will partner skrtel v brighten.
[quote author=iseered link=topic=46743.msg1394022#msg1394022 date=1315087611]
I dont see how it is a conundrum. We rotate, just like we will do all over the pitch.
[/quote]
No no no no no no. NO.
Never rotate your CB's. Ever. Destroys your team from back to front. Your GK needs to know his CB's intimately & every step they're gonna take before they take it 99.9% of the time. Your MF needs to have complete faith in the CB's to be there & be solid, & the full backs need to know the same.
I think Spurs main problem is/was rotating King in at the back, no matter how good he is.
I dont see how it is a conundrum. We rotate, just like we will do all over the pitch.
[/quote]
No no no no no no. NO.
Never rotate your CB's. Ever. Destroys your team from back to front. Your GK needs to know his CB's intimately & every step they're gonna take before they take it 99.9% of the time. Your MF needs to have complete faith in the CB's to be there & be solid, & the full backs need to know the same.
I think Spurs main problem is/was rotating King in at the back, no matter how good he is.
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=46743.msg1394114#msg1394114 date=1315128188]
[quote author=iseered link=topic=46743.msg1394022#msg1394022 date=1315087611]
I dont see how it is a conundrum. We rotate, just like we will do all over the pitch.
[/quote]
No no no no no no. NO.
Never rotate your CB's. Ever. Destroys your team from back to front. Your GK needs to know his CB's intimately & every step they're gonna take before they take it 99.9% of the time. Your MF needs to have complete faith in the CB's to be there & be solid, & the full backs need to know the same.
I think Spurs main problem is/was rotating King in at the back, no matter how good he is.
[/quote]
totally agree. that said I don't see agger lasting all season so it is essential the back up is strong. will be interesting to see if kenny goes for the experienced skrtel of the talented coates.
[quote author=iseered link=topic=46743.msg1394022#msg1394022 date=1315087611]
I dont see how it is a conundrum. We rotate, just like we will do all over the pitch.
[/quote]
No no no no no no. NO.
Never rotate your CB's. Ever. Destroys your team from back to front. Your GK needs to know his CB's intimately & every step they're gonna take before they take it 99.9% of the time. Your MF needs to have complete faith in the CB's to be there & be solid, & the full backs need to know the same.
I think Spurs main problem is/was rotating King in at the back, no matter how good he is.
[/quote]
totally agree. that said I don't see agger lasting all season so it is essential the back up is strong. will be interesting to see if kenny goes for the experienced skrtel of the talented coates.
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=46743.msg1394114#msg1394114 date=1315128188]
[quote author=iseered link=topic=46743.msg1394022#msg1394022 date=1315087611]
I dont see how it is a conundrum. We rotate, just like we will do all over the pitch.
[/quote]
No no no no no no. NO.
Never rotate your CB's. Ever. Destroys your team from back to front. Your GK needs to know his CB's intimately & every step they're gonna take before they take it 99.9% of the time. Your MF needs to have complete faith in the CB's to be there & be solid, & the full backs need to know the same.
I think Spurs main problem is/was rotating King in at the back, no matter how good he is.
[/quote]
I agree. For the large part, I want my keeper, CBs, and two CMs to be a stable fixed core. They should be starting 90% of the games. We can't think of a title challenge until we have that. Rotate your wide players, your attacking players, and possibly even your full-backs. But the central spine of the side should have clearly identifiable first and second choices.
[quote author=iseered link=topic=46743.msg1394022#msg1394022 date=1315087611]
I dont see how it is a conundrum. We rotate, just like we will do all over the pitch.
[/quote]
No no no no no no. NO.
Never rotate your CB's. Ever. Destroys your team from back to front. Your GK needs to know his CB's intimately & every step they're gonna take before they take it 99.9% of the time. Your MF needs to have complete faith in the CB's to be there & be solid, & the full backs need to know the same.
I think Spurs main problem is/was rotating King in at the back, no matter how good he is.
[/quote]
I agree. For the large part, I want my keeper, CBs, and two CMs to be a stable fixed core. They should be starting 90% of the games. We can't think of a title challenge until we have that. Rotate your wide players, your attacking players, and possibly even your full-backs. But the central spine of the side should have clearly identifiable first and second choices.
Modo, you're almost as bad as KHL for being up Agger's arse. I love the way you dismiss Carra and Skrtel because 'super' Daniel Agger has stayed fit for a few games. He's the most overrated player EVER, his fanny challenge on Nasri against Arsenal (actually it wasn't even a challenge, it was just him standing there watching) went unmentioned by the usual cretins who would have crucified Carra and Skrtel (who apparently has a penalty in him every game, despite giving away erm... 1 in his entire Liverpool career).
Coates is an unknown quantity right now, lucky for us we have three very good centre backs already.
Coates is an unknown quantity right now, lucky for us we have three very good centre backs already.
Actually, he has started the season exceptionally well, the dissing of Carra especially really fucks me off, he's still the best defender we've got. Skrtel looked great at right back against Bolton and he grabbed another goal, I think his play on the ball gets incredibly underrated sometimes. Watching Coates, he looks like a hybrid of Carra and Agger, great at bringing the ball out but equally ready to put his boot through the ball when needed, good stuff. I'm loathed to disrupt central defence (like Jon said) but like any new player, I can't wait to see him play.
It's a tough one because Carra isn't the player he was - but take him out of that defence and we won't half miss him. That squark you hear half a dozen times a game will be gone - is there a louder player in the prem - and one more concerned with keeping shape and teaching the kids? He offers far more than the last ditch tackles he's famous for, and just because some lanky Fray Bentos eating upstart might be better at that aspect of the game, it won't be enough to automatically displace our real captain.
I remember the Watford match on Sami's debut, he didn't put a foot wrong despite having Matteo next to him at left back, the highlight of the game (bar Elton getting ripped all game) was hearing Carra say "sorry Sander" a million times in that squeaky voice.
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=46743.msg1394129#msg1394129 date=1315131234]
Actually, he has started the season exceptionally well, the dissing of Carra especially really fucks me off, he's still the best defender we've got. Skrtel looked great at right back against Bolton and he grabbed another goal, I think his play on the ball gets incredibly underrated sometimes. Watching Coates, he looks like a hybrid of Carra and Agger, great at bringing the ball out but equally ready to put his boot through the ball when needed, good stuff. I'm loathed to disrupt central defence (like Jon said) but like any new player, I can't wait to see him play.
[/quote]
Not every new signing gets the kind of write-ups Coates got, from commentators unconnected with LFC, before the deal was done. If they turn out to have been even half right, we got ourselves a player here.
Actually, he has started the season exceptionally well, the dissing of Carra especially really fucks me off, he's still the best defender we've got. Skrtel looked great at right back against Bolton and he grabbed another goal, I think his play on the ball gets incredibly underrated sometimes. Watching Coates, he looks like a hybrid of Carra and Agger, great at bringing the ball out but equally ready to put his boot through the ball when needed, good stuff. I'm loathed to disrupt central defence (like Jon said) but like any new player, I can't wait to see him play.
[/quote]
Not every new signing gets the kind of write-ups Coates got, from commentators unconnected with LFC, before the deal was done. If they turn out to have been even half right, we got ourselves a player here.
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=46743.msg1394142#msg1394142 date=1315132465]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=46743.msg1394129#msg1394129 date=1315131234]
Actually, he has started the season exceptionally well, the dissing of Carra especially really fucks me off, he's still the best defender we've got. Skrtel looked great at right back against Bolton and he grabbed another goal, I think his play on the ball gets incredibly underrated sometimes. Watching Coates, he looks like a hybrid of Carra and Agger, great at bringing the ball out but equally ready to put his boot through the ball when needed, good stuff. I'm loathed to disrupt central defence (like Jon said) but like any new player, I can't wait to see him play.
[/quote]
Not every new signing gets the kind of write-ups Coates got, from commentators unconnected with LFC, before the deal was done. If they turn out to have been even half right, we got ourselves a player here.
[/quote]
True, but getting a player from abroad is always a risk isn't it? Especially directly from South America
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=46743.msg1394129#msg1394129 date=1315131234]
Actually, he has started the season exceptionally well, the dissing of Carra especially really fucks me off, he's still the best defender we've got. Skrtel looked great at right back against Bolton and he grabbed another goal, I think his play on the ball gets incredibly underrated sometimes. Watching Coates, he looks like a hybrid of Carra and Agger, great at bringing the ball out but equally ready to put his boot through the ball when needed, good stuff. I'm loathed to disrupt central defence (like Jon said) but like any new player, I can't wait to see him play.
[/quote]
Not every new signing gets the kind of write-ups Coates got, from commentators unconnected with LFC, before the deal was done. If they turn out to have been even half right, we got ourselves a player here.
[/quote]
True, but getting a player from abroad is always a risk isn't it? Especially directly from South America
True, but there's a risk with every signing.
Incidentally I don't think S.Americans have been *that* risky more recently. Italians, on the other hand, I don't ever want to see on our radar again.
Incidentally I don't think S.Americans have been *that* risky more recently. Italians, on the other hand, I don't ever want to see on our radar again.
Ha, very true JJ. I think South American's have an excellent worth ethic, generalising I know, but if you look at Suarez, Masher, Lucas, Tevez etc, it rings true. That doesn't mean that a defender will be able to defend, but at least we know he's unlikely to be a shithouse, which is half the battle.
I'll be on Agger-watch on Tuesday. I'll give you a live play-by-play injury update.
Example:
- Cross into the box, Agger clears it. He's fine.
- Agger passes it to Bendtner, is he in pain? No he's fine.
- Agger tackled on the half-way line. Grabs his ankle, is he injured?? No, no he's fine.
Example:
- Cross into the box, Agger clears it. He's fine.
- Agger passes it to Bendtner, is he in pain? No he's fine.
- Agger tackled on the half-way line. Grabs his ankle, is he injured?? No, no he's fine.
[quote author=Modo link=topic=46743.msg1394163#msg1394163 date=1315133791]
I'll be on Agger-watch on Tuesday. I'll give you a live play-by-play injury update.
Example:
- Cross into the box, Agger clears it. He's fine.
- Agger passes it to Bendtner, is he in pain? No he's fine.
- Agger tackled on the half-way line. Grabs his ankle, is he injured?? No, no he's fine.
[/quote]
Walks off pitch and sneezes - out for six months.
I'll be on Agger-watch on Tuesday. I'll give you a live play-by-play injury update.
Example:
- Cross into the box, Agger clears it. He's fine.
- Agger passes it to Bendtner, is he in pain? No he's fine.
- Agger tackled on the half-way line. Grabs his ankle, is he injured?? No, no he's fine.
[/quote]
Walks off pitch and sneezes - out for six months.
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=46743.msg1394167#msg1394167 date=1315134034]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=46743.msg1394163#msg1394163 date=1315133791]
I'll be on Agger-watch on Tuesday. I'll give you a live play-by-play injury update.
Example:
- Cross into the box, Agger clears it. He's fine.
- Agger passes it to Bendtner, is he in pain? No he's fine.
- Agger tackled on the half-way line. Grabs his ankle, is he injured?? No, no he's fine.
[/quote]
Walks off pitch and sneezes - out for six months.
[/quote]
You know, that wouldnt surprise me but it's more of a Aurelio type injury.
[quote author=Modo link=topic=46743.msg1394163#msg1394163 date=1315133791]
I'll be on Agger-watch on Tuesday. I'll give you a live play-by-play injury update.
Example:
- Cross into the box, Agger clears it. He's fine.
- Agger passes it to Bendtner, is he in pain? No he's fine.
- Agger tackled on the half-way line. Grabs his ankle, is he injured?? No, no he's fine.
[/quote]
Walks off pitch and sneezes - out for six months.
[/quote]
You know, that wouldnt surprise me but it's more of a Aurelio type injury.
As people have said, Carra playing less will probably give us more of him.
I'm hoping to see him in for the games where we'll need the experience and the organisation, and then maybe be rotated a little on games where it's not so critical.
Agger will get injured, that's a given, and so I'm sure Coates will get some games.
I'm looking forward to seeing the results
I'm hoping to see him in for the games where we'll need the experience and the organisation, and then maybe be rotated a little on games where it's not so critical.
Agger will get injured, that's a given, and so I'm sure Coates will get some games.
I'm looking forward to seeing the results
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=46743.msg1394151#msg1394151 date=1315132924]
True, but there's a risk with every signing.
Incidentally I don't think S.Americans have been *that* risky more recently. Italians, on the other hand, I don't ever want to see on our radar again.
[/quote]
Agreed, and to be honest there is no difference in risk whether you get a foreign or local player in terms of quality; the real difference is in terms of ability to adapt ie family etc, and even that is usually exaggerated by wantaway players.
True, but there's a risk with every signing.
Incidentally I don't think S.Americans have been *that* risky more recently. Italians, on the other hand, I don't ever want to see on our radar again.
[/quote]
Agreed, and to be honest there is no difference in risk whether you get a foreign or local player in terms of quality; the real difference is in terms of ability to adapt ie family etc, and even that is usually exaggerated by wantaway players.
S
Squiggles
Guest
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=46743.msg1394040#msg1394040 date=1315094541]
Fuck all that , form dictates who plays, it does not matter who the fuck it is, and Carragher would be the first to say that.
So far this season Agger has been immense , both at defending and on the ball. So it he earns the first slot.
Until we see Coates play , we can't say that he deserves the second berth or not, but if he plays at some point, looks assured and plays better than Carra then that has to be the choice, there is no room in this game for sentiment......Well there is, but those occasions have to be carefully selected.
I said in a previous thread Carra's worth of late has probably been more to do with organising the defence than his actual play, which is not to be sniffed at.
I suspect that if Coates is a worthy successor to Carra then he will be as pleased as anyone.
regards
[/quote]
Spot on as per.
Fuck all that , form dictates who plays, it does not matter who the fuck it is, and Carragher would be the first to say that.
So far this season Agger has been immense , both at defending and on the ball. So it he earns the first slot.
Until we see Coates play , we can't say that he deserves the second berth or not, but if he plays at some point, looks assured and plays better than Carra then that has to be the choice, there is no room in this game for sentiment......Well there is, but those occasions have to be carefully selected.
I said in a previous thread Carra's worth of late has probably been more to do with organising the defence than his actual play, which is not to be sniffed at.
I suspect that if Coates is a worthy successor to Carra then he will be as pleased as anyone.
regards
[/quote]
Spot on as per.
[quote author=Wilko link=topic=46743.msg1393987#msg1393987 date=1315077729]
I think the process to phase out Carragher should start now both for the sake of the team and for the player.
He's increasingly reliant on fouling to stop the opposition and has developed the trick of purposely tripping himself up of a striker's leg and making sure he brings the lad down with him. He's largely got away with it so far however I predict a red card and/or the concession of a penalty as a direct result of him being past it.
He is without doubt a proud Liverpool man and deserves to be regarded as a legend and it is this legendary status that is in danger of being tarnished should he start stumbling too much whilst on the march with Kenny's Army.
Liverpool players on the field need to be there on merit and not because of sentiment or what they have done in the past.
[/quote]
Well, there's the penalty. Fucking ridiculous stuff from Carragher.
I think the process to phase out Carragher should start now both for the sake of the team and for the player.
He's increasingly reliant on fouling to stop the opposition and has developed the trick of purposely tripping himself up of a striker's leg and making sure he brings the lad down with him. He's largely got away with it so far however I predict a red card and/or the concession of a penalty as a direct result of him being past it.
He is without doubt a proud Liverpool man and deserves to be regarded as a legend and it is this legendary status that is in danger of being tarnished should he start stumbling too much whilst on the march with Kenny's Army.
Liverpool players on the field need to be there on merit and not because of sentiment or what they have done in the past.
[/quote]
Well, there's the penalty. Fucking ridiculous stuff from Carragher.
The holding dragging players down isn't a recent thing, he's been doing it for months, if not years. I'm amazed the ref doesn't penalize more of them.
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=46743.msg1396913#msg1396913 date=1315664829]
The holding dragging players down isn't a recent thing, he's been doing it for months, if not years. I'm amazed the ref doesn't penalize more of them.
[/quote]
As does just about every other central defender in the League... which made it all the more infuriating when Clattenburg whistled for a penalty today. There's no fucking consistency and it absolutely drives me mad.
The holding dragging players down isn't a recent thing, he's been doing it for months, if not years. I'm amazed the ref doesn't penalize more of them.
[/quote]
As does just about every other central defender in the League... which made it all the more infuriating when Clattenburg whistled for a penalty today. There's no fucking consistency and it absolutely drives me mad.
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