Better get on the Gakpo and Trent ones too then Fabio, and bumping the Diaz one.
You're the best at these type of knee-jerk threads.
Then we can all take turns sucking you off when it works!!
The Gravy Train
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You're the best at these type of knee-jerk threads.
Then we can all take turns sucking you off when it works!!
Yeah, there was a short spell when Jones was carrying a knock, but the hype train had only just got out the station before he went shite.
He's the least convincing of a series of very good purchases this summer. He's also the least experienced, has been starving for actual match time for a year, and is now in a new, super competitive league, having never settled in his first move.
He would have never started this game if we had other options. He isnt normally putting in 90 mins and we seem to be building up his fitness with the same protocol we use for our youth, rather than the first team regulars, due to the time off.
Most of this has fuck all to do with him. The worry is that now after a year, and him being a pretty confusing purchase in some ways, he's got a new manager coming in and another new set of things to adapt to.
He looks a little lost, but that's sort of the pattern in midfield. The player looks better when just doing their thing. Then they get 9 billion instructions, overthink everything, are constantly thinking where they should be off the ball, what triggers there are etc. etc. Then, maybe we see what we are meant to. First the machine of the player then maybe, some sort of character. It's an ugly process, but it won't be close to completing under klopp.
There no question there's something there. But there's also tons of work to be done. He wasn't liable to figure it out against arsenal at their place, was he? What are we really talking about here?
He would have never started this game if we had other options. He isnt normally putting in 90 mins and we seem to be building up his fitness with the same protocol we use for our youth, rather than the first team regulars, due to the time off.
Most of this has fuck all to do with him. The worry is that now after a year, and him being a pretty confusing purchase in some ways, he's got a new manager coming in and another new set of things to adapt to.
He looks a little lost, but that's sort of the pattern in midfield. The player looks better when just doing their thing. Then they get 9 billion instructions, overthink everything, are constantly thinking where they should be off the ball, what triggers there are etc. etc. Then, maybe we see what we are meant to. First the machine of the player then maybe, some sort of character. It's an ugly process, but it won't be close to completing under klopp.
There no question there's something there. But there's also tons of work to be done. He wasn't liable to figure it out against arsenal at their place, was he? What are we really talking about here?
Saw this article shared on Twitter:
www.bavarianfootballworks.com
Is Bayern Munich’s Ryan Gravenberch a problem child?
This is a bad look for the Dutchman.
www.bavarianfootballworks.com
All exceptionally valid points, but just wanted to focus on the this last part. I understand he's not going to figure it out against a high flying arsenal, however I just want to see something from him. I'm not expecting a 9/10 dominating performance; just a glimmer, a hope, that there's actually something there that wants to come out. So far all I've noticed from him, regardless of opposition, is a tendency to disappear in games.
For all the talk of " he's learning the system" or "he's barely played"; why hasn't he shown anything from his repertoire? Like, even shaqiri, a player we all know couldn't work in klopps system, showed us what he was all about consistently. Gravy hasn't shown us anything. For me, that's the biggest crime. I understand struggling with new tactics, but that's when you use your own initiative and try to stamp yourself on a game. The biggest worry for me is that he seemingly doesn't want to do that. Whether that's because he's unable or unwilling to, I don't know.
His body language doesn't help, that sulky "woe is me" bollocks. When he scored 2wks ago, you could see him visibly get told to smile by his team mates. Contrast that with Nunez who wears his passion on his sleeve and doesn't feel sorry for himself - he's straight back up and tries again.
That said, I still think you have to give him time. People were writing off Gini in the first year because he appeared to offer nothing outstanding in any respect. It's not quite the same I know, because Gini at least worked hard. The biggest thing going against Grav (apart from himself) is the fact Klopp is leaving. He'd surely be an exit candidate under any new manager.
That said, I still think you have to give him time. People were writing off Gini in the first year because he appeared to offer nothing outstanding in any respect. It's not quite the same I know, because Gini at least worked hard. The biggest thing going against Grav (apart from himself) is the fact Klopp is leaving. He'd surely be an exit candidate under any new manager.
This is precisely why i made this thread. every other play who initially struggled to adapt, or took their time to always showed something. Whether it's work rate, off their own back creative/driving plays, a passion defending. He's shown nothing
tbh cup games i'd be more willing to play mcconnell or clark
It seems Fabio has made all the points, and responses I'd make, save ...
He clearly favours the LCM spot, and performs marginally better there. So I see him as Jones' back-up. However, with Thiago back fit even that is doubtful. He needs to work out the press and he needs to really apply himself to it.When we don't have the ball he doesn't seem to have a clue what to do with himself and whatever he does he does it slowly.
On the ball he's ok-ish but is way off Jones/Szobo/Mac/Endo and if Bajcetic comes back the way he left off he'll be behind him too next season. Remember next season he'll need an overseas' player slot, that will certainly concentrate minds
He clearly favours the LCM spot, and performs marginally better there. So I see him as Jones' back-up. However, with Thiago back fit even that is doubtful. He needs to work out the press and he needs to really apply himself to it.When we don't have the ball he doesn't seem to have a clue what to do with himself and whatever he does he does it slowly.
On the ball he's ok-ish but is way off Jones/Szobo/Mac/Endo and if Bajcetic comes back the way he left off he'll be behind him too next season. Remember next season he'll need an overseas' player slot, that will certainly concentrate minds
Not Grav's fault we let in 3 soft goals which is why we lost. Konate has been getting with what are blatant yellow card offenses and has now been penalised.
No can hold their head-up in that game, and to single out a player when there 10 nearly as bad as him is scapegoating
No can hold their head-up in that game, and to single out a player when there 10 nearly as bad as him is scapegoating
I think if you throw Trent into the mix and we have Endo back, the first six in contention for a place should be Macca, Trent, Szobo, Endo, Jones, Elliott. Then you've got Gravenberch, Thiago (who reminded me why he fucking irritates me in his cameo yesterday) and Bajcetic.
Bajcetic has been out for so long he's almost a non-entity at this stage. We might as well write him off for the season. That fucking pass from Thiago yesterday was criminal, I know he's just come back, but he always has those lax moments in him. I couldn't care less if he never plays for us again to be honest.
Bajcetic has been out for so long he's almost a non-entity at this stage. We might as well write him off for the season. That fucking pass from Thiago yesterday was criminal, I know he's just come back, but he always has those lax moments in him. I couldn't care less if he never plays for us again to be honest.
It's not scapegoating, he was fucking dire. He's not the only one and I suspect the criticism isn't just because of one game is it? Everyone can have one shit game as we showed yesterday, Gravenberch was symptomatic of the overall problem.
To me the issue yesterday was because of two or thee things. We lacked Bradley's natural defensive quality, Trent left holes against a player who's always exploited him, and Gravenberch is too much of a passenger to feature in the big games.
You can point the finger at VVD and Ali, but they rarely let us down and if they were at sixes and sevens, maybe it's worth looking at the bigger picture to work out why.
This thread isn't blaming him for the arsenal game. Its critiquing his performances, pretty much since September.
i've been very clear in saying that
i think ibou being constantly forced wide to cover for trents holes left vvd struggling with the wider space. But thats the script for the season now. Either they adapt or we die
I'm fucking praying klopp adapts and plays gomez right back until bradley is back
thankfully he will in the summer
I am not Grav's biggest cheer leader, I would rather have had Thuram but anyway he is here. He needs to be cut some slack as its his first season and he is being used mainly as a bench option.
I am not gonna lose hope over 1 game, thats what Arse fans do! We missed Bradley and Dom and it showed. Sometimes a loss is a blessing as it forces players to keep their feet on the ground and the manager to reassess things for the better.
This is our 2nd loss and hopefully our last...
In retrospect that's what we should have done to toughen up a right side at least a tad. Such a pity Bradders was ruled out of this game as if he was RB and Trent at RM with Gomez LB it would have been far better.
I also think Diaz at RW, Nunez at LW and Diogo through the middle would have been an improvement. I thought Gakpo was supposed to do a lot of tracking back but I didn't see it yesterday.
First young boys and now this. Speak for yourself !
I tend to agree, unfortunately. He hasn't got the personality for it and nothing's changing that.
I think I'd rather play Clark or McConnell at this point.
I think I'd rather play Clark or McConnell at this point.
It's only the start of what I'd be willing to do if we bring home some trophies.
This was clearly illustrated for the first goal - VvD was sucked into midfield to try to close down a totally open Odegaard and that led directly to him being out of position and unable to cover Martinelli's run (since no-one else was).
I can't agree with these, though I'm not exactly his champion either.
I thought his early performances showed some of what he could do, and he got some plaudits for them, when he was playing a little bit more instinctively. These things being powerful running ON the ball, and turning and finding space when receiving the ball.
So basically naby keita.
A healthy naby keita should be a terrifying thing. It very much so doesn't seem to be however
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