The Szobo-Wirtz conundrum

[JohnnyRocket]

Been thinking about this for a while - that basically 2 of our best players occupy the same position naturally. I think most would agree on here that the natural thing to ordinarily do would be to play Wirtz behind Ekitike and then have 2 great wingers/wide forwards on either side of them.

But . . . there's a Szobo-sized complication that makes that impossible. It seems pretty clear that Slot prefers a 4-2-3-1 and doesn;t seem like he'll change that. It also seems pretty clear Szobo's future isn't in the deeper "2" but the more advanced "3".

So what does the long term look like with these 2? There's the chance a new manager comes in and has to work this out. Is it just a case of Szobo fits in where needed - which seems a bit unfair on one of our best players.

The options are basically this:

Play Wirtz on the left in a roaming left role, with Szobo at central number 10
Play them both centrally in hybrid 8/10 roles in a 4-1-4-1
Play Wirtz centrally and Szobo out right, once Salah leaves
Move Szobo to the deeper "2"
Play them both at number 10 centrally in a 3-4-2-1

What do we think?

 

[Tinto]

Christmas Tree

 

[dmishra]

I think we have an Ekitike-Isak conundrum, not a Szobo-Wirtz one.

Szobo and Wirtz can play together beautifully. Both press like demons - Wirtz is a playmaker archetype (who is also very productive in terms of goals and assists) and Szobo is a runner archetype (while also being technically very able). Both can be part of a 4-man forward press, are versatile enough to switch positions, and given their different archetypes not really players who'll step on each other's shoes.

What it does mean is that long-term we're looking a 4-2-2-2 or a diamond shape in place of a 4-3-3.

The only problem is that Isak is a fairly static 9 - and I am skeptical of a Ekitike-Isak front 2 really working. Might have worked if Isak were more of a ball-carrier capable of holding width.

It's one of the reasons I was dead against dropping 130 million on him - I think it'll prove to be poor value for money.

 

[keniget]

I think we have a Ekitike-Isak conundrum, not a Szobo-Wirtz one.

Szobo and Wirtz can play together beautifully. Both press like demons - Wirtz is a playmaker archetype (who is also very productive in terms of goals and assists) and Szobo is a runner archetype (while also being technically very able). Both can be part of a 4-man forward press, are versatile enough to switch positions, and given their different archetypes not really players who'll step on each other's shoes.

What it does mean is that long-term we're looking a 4-2-2-2 or a diamond shape in place of a 4-3-3.

The only problem is that Isak is a fairly static 9 - and I am skeptical of a Ekitike-Isak front 2 really working. Might have worked if Isak were more of a ball-carrier capable of holding width.

It's one of the reasons I was dead against dropping 130 million on him - I think it'll prove to be poor value for money.

Yup. If we could get a Barcola type wide forward, we'd have a really interesting, dynamic and pacey front line. But we're in a position where we have to make the Isak deal work.

 

[Squiggles]

He’s been our standout player this season, especially impressive given he hasn't always played in his preferred role. However, since he never fully made the 'ten' position his own, he couldn't have been totally shocked when we looked for more creative reinforcements.

If we transition to a 4-2-2-2 with Ekitike and Isak up front, Szobo is a perfect fit on the right. Otherwise, he’s performing well enough in CM. The main priority is to stop playing him at RB. He’s great, but he needs consistency in at least playing various midfield roles.

 

[Dreambeliever]

Unpopular opinion.

Isak will end up being the better signing.

 

[Squiggles]

Than Ekitike? Well, here's hoping. If so, we'll be looking very strong.

Personally, I think his injuries will persist throughout his career and prevent him from ever hitting the value we needed. We'll see how it goes next year, but I remember the 'let's see how Chamberlain/Matip/Gomez/Kieta goes with a full pre-season' shouts. The answer was usually the same. Flashes and sporadic moments of great form. Overoptimism at all levels of the club. Injury. Rinse and repeat. His body is on a similar pathway - not guaranteed he'll follow that trajectory, but the risk is there.

 

[Brizzle]

DIAMOND!

Get an actual sitting/destroyer/watercarrier DM and you can have Szobo as one of two CMs, Wirtz as the AM. Two attackers in front. Wirtz & Szobo have unreal engines to press - having them both on the pitch is essential.

 

[Hansern]

I think both players offer great flexibility and will continue to do so in the future.
Starting position for Wirtz will be the 10 and in all honesty I would consider moving Szobo to the right when Salah moves on this summer.
Sign Elliott Anderson and pair him with Gravy.
But Szobo can also continue to play in a midfield two obviously or deputize as a 10. The flexibility is great for us going forward.
Wirtz can start out wide in certain games but we need a new LW.
If Bayern make a play for Gakpo I'd be tempted to move him on. Sign a more suited LW and pair him with Rio.

Regarding Isak I see no issue with him going forward. We can play a 4-2-2-2 at times and we can also start Ekitike out wide left in a 4-3-3 if they start together.
But, as we've seen this season we need the depth given the amount of games and injuries.
Having two fantastic strikers in the squad? Boofuckinghoo, what a tough spot to be in.

 

[KopRed]

Szobo is not a 10. He does not have that deftness of touch or dribble in tight spaces.
Slot had him playing as a 10 last season and he didn't produce enough. That's why they bought Wirtz.

He is an 8. I think he is better coming from deep, he has the running power.

I hope I am wrong but it does feel like he might be the next to do a Trent / Ibou.

 

[Dreambeliever]

Than Ekitike? Well, here's hoping. If so, we'll be looking very strong.

Personally, I think his injuries will persist throughout his career and prevent him from ever hitting the value we needed. We'll see how it goes next year, but I remember the 'let's see how Chamberlain/Matip/Gomez/Kieta goes with a full pre-season' shouts. The answer was usually the same. Flashes and sporadic moments of great form. Overoptimism at all levels of the club. Injury. Rinse and repeat. His body is on a similar pathway - not guaranteed he'll follow that trajectory, but the risk is there.

Ya that’s the massive question mark but I do think the break was just unlucky but if he stays fit he’ll be a superstar.

 

[Hyena]

3421 : Wirtz and Szobs behind Hugo; Or

3412: Wirtz behind Hugo and Isak. Szobo as the RWB.

We would need a Coach who plays these formations.

 

[Hansern]

Szobo has 33 G/A in 48 games started on right wing/right midfield. Getting in a specialist 6/8 and pairing him with Gravy and moving Szobo to the right would make us a much better team and give us more balance.

I doubt Szobo wants to continue to play right back, so at least sort that out so he signs a new contract.

 

[BishBashBosh]

I think both players offer great flexibility and will continue to do so in the future.
Starting position for Wirtz will be the 10 and in all honesty I would consider moving Szobo to the right when Salah moves on this summer.
Sign Elliott Anderson and pair him with Gravy.
But Szobo can also continue to play in a midfield two obviously or deputize as a 10. The flexibility is great for us going forward.
Wirtz can start out wide in certain games but we need a new LW.
If Bayern make a play for Gakpo I'd be tempted to move him on. Sign a more suited LW and pair him with Rio.

Regarding Isak I see no issue with him going forward. We can play a 4-2-2-2 at times and we can also start Ekitike out wide left in a 4-3-3 if they start together.
But, as we've seen this season we need the depth given the amount of games and injuries.
Having two fantastic strikers in the squad? Boofuckinghoo, what a tough spot to be in.

Humour me - all things being equal in terms of form and fitness. Our structure is 4-3-3 with one central striker - who are you giving the number 9 shirt to? Who’s the main man - the guy you’re going to play every week given the opportunity?

 

[Mamma Mia]

Humour me - all things being equal in terms of form and fitness. Our structure is 4-3-3 with one central striker - who are you giving the number 9 shirt to? Who’s the main man - the guy you’re going to play every week given the opportunity?

Which one is in the first XI??!!

 

[BishBashBosh]

Which one is in the first XI??!!

Yep, Isak or Ekitike who are you throwing the shirt at?

Ekitike is not a left forward, he never will be. He’s a number 9 and a bloody good one from what we’ve seen so far,

So who you starting all things being equal….

 

[binomial]

It's possible we didn't know how good Hugo would be this early on which saw our plans in the summer scuppered if the idea was to use Isak as the mainstay #9 whilst rotating Hugo with either Gakpo/Mo if we felt their form would dip.

He's given us a good problem in the sense that he has to remain in the team and we'll have to find a way to re-integrate Isak in differently to how we initially saw,.......I see that coming to fruition in a post Salah world, I see that coming to fruition in a world where Gakpo continuously puts in performances worthy of considerable bench time.

It's even possible we sought after Isak because the data showed there were no standout RW's of sufficient quality that could step in and fill that void Mo will eventually leave behind, with a change of set up already in the works. If Ibou signs up (& I hope he does), then 3412/3421.....if not then keep the 4231.

Alisson
Jacquet/Leoni - Konate - Virgil
Frimpong - Szobo - Grav - Kerkez
Wirtz
Isak - Ekitike

The acquisition of Wirtz would make any front 3 combination work, he's that flexible.

 

[Mamma Mia]

Yep, Isak or Ekitike who are you throwing the shirt at?

Ekitike is not a left forward, he never will be. He’s a number 9 and a bloody good one from what we’ve seen so far,

So who you starting all things being equal….

All things are never equal.

Isak wears the number 9 shirt.

 

[Hansern]

Humour me - all things being equal in terms of form and fitness. Our structure is 4-3-3 with one central striker - who are you giving the number 9 shirt to? Who’s the main man - the guy you’re going to play every week given the opportunity?

Depends on fitness, form, opponent, game plan, tactical set up and the rest of the team. The good thing with having two fantastic strikers with a similar profile is that we can do just that.

We'll most likely play 55 games + next season and Ekitike will have next to no pre season given the World Cup. Good thing we have Isak eh...

 

[LarryHagman]

Slot/someone needs to work out how to get the best out of Ekitike, Wirtz, Szobo and Isak playing together, seeing as they cost us 390 million quid.