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This date last season

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Liverpool were 12th in the table with 25 points, 3 points off relegation and 5 points off the bottom and out of the F.A and League cup.
We were on the verge of losing our star striker and we just appointed a manager who hadn't managed a premier league club in 13 years.
We had a bunch of useless overpaid players on the book ala, Jovanovic,Cole,Koncheskey,Poulsen etc etc.
Disaster?Fuck yeah!


12 months on Kenny has steadied a sinking ship.
5 points off 4th place with 17 games to go with Arsenal and Chelsea at home yet.
Potential league cup final.
F.a cup run is still on.
What's the problem?
We signed 2 shit players and drew a few games at home,boo fucking hoo.
The king will sail this ship home yet baby(4th place) and I bet we will still have shit loads of people moaning when this happens.
Thank god these fans were not around when Shanks had his bad patch.
I just wish some people would stop moaning and think back to a year ago.
 
So just cause we were shite back then excuses the mistakes and missed opportunities we have had since ? . Fair enough we were in a crap position but that was down to the useless owners and crap manager . The moment we were bought out by a semi decent lot who put a decent manager in charge we were in a sense in a very good position to build. (yes i know it took them a few months to put dalglish in charge) . The frustration is that we haven't built like we could have and wasted vast amounts of money on useless overpaid players . We're making the same mistakes we have for years and who knows when we'll be in a position to challenge for the league . And i am fed up with 4th being seen as an achievement .

So yes it could have gone much worse , we could have gone belly up and i am thankful we didn't but again we never should have been in those positions . How long can we continue to be average and go "well 5 yrs ago we were 12th with 25 points " .
 
[quote author=RedZeppelin link=topic=48338.msg1465616#msg1465616 date=1326787837]
So just cause we were shite back then excuses the mistakes and missed opportunities we have had since ? . Fair enough we were in a crap position but that was down to the useless owners and crap manager . The moment we were bought out by a semi decent lot who put a decent manager in charge we were in a sense in a very good position to build. (yes i know it took them a few months to put dalglish in charge) . The frustration is that we haven't built like we could have and wasted vast amounts of money on useless overpaid players . We're making the same mistakes we have for years and who knows when we'll be in a position to challenge for the league . And i am fed up with 4th being seen as an achievement .

So yes it could have gone much worse , we could have gone belly up and i am thankful we didn't but again we never should have been in those positions . How long can we continue to be average and go "well 5 yrs ago we were 12th with 25 points " .
[/quote]

We're in both cups, so it's not just a case of focusing on the negatives either. League wise we might be spluttering but the squad is better and with a couple more additions we could really get going. It's not all doom and gloom, Rome wasn't built in a day. Yeah we've made mistakes but we've also progressed even if it's not as swiftly or as significantly as many would like, we're getting there.

Positives:

Defensively we're excellent
Suarez
Team spirit
Bellamy, Shelvey, Kelly, Maxi, Carra, Coates, Spearing etc providing good strength in depth
The kids that Kenny has progressed have bolstered the squad and don't look out of place
The Cups, well we're in both which is a huge improvement on recent years
Enrique looks quality
Playing well against the big sides
Press handling is much better, people might argue the toss over the Suarez case, but by and large we handle the media alot better.


Negatives

Carroll and Downing are poor buys
Henderson looks like he' a player but is taking time to fit in
Controversy with Suarez & Downing, Suarez' ban having a significant impact, the club getting negative press
Too many draws at home against 'lesser' sides leading to a less that impressive league position
A few baffling tactical decisions
 
[quote author=RedZeppelin link=topic=48338.msg1465616#msg1465616 date=1326787837]
How long can we continue to be average and go "well 5 yrs ago we were 12th with 25 points " .
[/quote]

That's just a ridiculous comment, because no one would, if Ged and Rafa's tenures tell you anything, it's that you can't live on past glories for long or keep making excuses. No one said it's 'ok' to finish 4th/5th, just show a bit of perspective.
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48338.msg1465651#msg1465651 date=1326792642]
[quote author=RedZeppelin link=topic=48338.msg1465616#msg1465616 date=1326787837]
How long can we continue to be average and go "well 5 yrs ago we were 12th with 25 points " .
[/quote]

That's just a ridiculous comment, because no one would, if Ged and Rafa's tenures tell you anything, it's that you can't live on past glories for long or keep making excuses. No one said it's 'ok' to finish 4th/5th, just show a bit of perspective.
[/quote]

well obviously that was a slight exaggeration to highlight a point . And i would like to show perspective but we've been here for a few yrs now and by arsing transfers and other things up we're not exactly moving along and have missed a great opportunity to do so .

I am more than happy to be proved wrong but right now i have this frustrating feeling that we aren't going to really kick on to where i want to be (challenging and champs league) because these players don't have the ability and will be around for a long time . if we replace them then fair enough .
 
[quote author=Leon link=topic=48338.msg1465612#msg1465612 date=1326786047]
Liverpool were 12th in the table with 25 points, 3 points off relegation and 5 points off the bottom and out of the F.A and League cup.
We were on the verge of losing our star striker and we just appointed a manager who hadn't managed a premier league club in 13 years.
We had a bunch of useless overpaid players on the book ala, Jovanovic,Cole,Koncheskey,Poulsen etc etc.
Disaster?Fuck yeah!


12 months on Kenny has steadied a sinking ship.
5 points off 4th place with 17 games to go with Arsenal and Chelsea at home yet.
Potential league cup final.
F.a cup run is still on.
What's the problem?
We signed 2 shit players and drew a few games at home,boo fucking hoo.
The king will sail this ship home yet baby(4th place) and I bet we will still have shit loads of people moaning when this happens.
Thank god these fans were not around when Shanks had his bad patch.
I just wish some people would stop moaning and think back to a year ago.
[/quote]

This may be all very well but we have spent £100 million in 12 months and still struggle to win 3 league games in a row
 
I must say it's taken me a couple of days to get past the Stoke performance which was depressingly reminiscent of our Rafa form from 2 years ago. The lineup was horrible and the style of play was just relegation stuff.

That said we have, largely over the last 3 months and for the second half of last season played the kind of football that wins titles. I still don't think we're that far off; we miss Suarez badly and a finisher would be a huge addition. Have Gerrard, Suarez, Bellamy and another in there, though and we'd look capable against anyone.


With Stoke beginning to recede into the gloom of the rear view mirror the only concern that festers is Kenny's comments he doesn't want anyone in January. I hope like hell that's him trying to play down expectations or minimise transfer fees. If he doesn't think we need a striker to complement Suarez and Gerrard then we do have an issue.
 
He may think we need one, but maybe he knows he's not been given any money so has to say all is well and is trying to encourage who we have.
 
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=48338.msg1465840#msg1465840 date=1326816263]
He may think we need one, but maybe he knows he's not been given any money so has to say all is well and is trying to encourage who we have.
[/quote]

If so he's gone a bit over board by coming out and saying he's been offered the money to buy if he wants to but turned it down cause he thinks we've got the right players. That's just making himself a scape goat with no real benefit.
 
[quote author=RedZeppelin link=topic=48338.msg1465616#msg1465616 date=1326787837]
So just cause we were shite back then excuses the mistakes and missed opportunities we have had since ? . Fair enough we were in a crap position but that was down to the useless owners and crap manager . The moment we were bought out by a semi decent lot who put a decent manager in charge we were in a sense in a very good position to build. (yes i know it took them a few months to put dalglish in charge) . The frustration is that we haven't built like we could have and wasted vast amounts of money on useless overpaid players . We're making the same mistakes we have for years and who knows when we'll be in a position to challenge for the league . And i am fed up with 4th being seen as an achievement .

So yes it could have gone much worse , we could have gone belly up and i am thankful we didn't but again we never should have been in those positions . How long can we continue to be average and go "well 5 yrs ago we were 12th with 25 points " .
[/quote]

i'm in complete agreement. it's such a fucking cop-out to keep harping on about where we were a year ago. that was largely due to uniquely awful owners and a fucking calamity of a manager. the squad rafa left was at least good enough to be on track for 63 points (which was our total in 2009/10 and also precisely what we're currently headed for this season - i think we'll get more like 70 points, personally, but as of now...), and since then we've had £40m odd of investment AND at least £10m more from torres's sale than he was really worth.

we've underperformed this season so far. we just fucking have.
 
Our only big problem is the fact we don't have any attacking depth. Big problem of course, but it's better than the 20 problems we had. Kenny simply has to play the kind of football he did last year, and go for it. You'll lose some, but you'll win more.

If he doesn't it isn't going to work out at all

it's really that simple.
 
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=48338.msg1465841#msg1465841 date=1326816508]
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=48338.msg1465840#msg1465840 date=1326816263]
He may think we need one, but maybe he knows he's not been given any money so has to say all is well and is trying to encourage who we have.
[/quote]

If so he's gone a bit over board by coming out and saying he's been offered the money to buy if he wants to but turned it down cause he thinks we've got the right players. That's just making himself a scape goat with no real benefit.
[/quote]

Maybe, but I'm clinging on to the hope that he can see what we're missing.
 
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=48338.msg1465842#msg1465842 date=1326816575]
we've underperformed this season so far. we just fucking have.
[/quote]

With emphasis on the 'so far' obv. For every thinly veiled 'I like Kenny' post you make there's always a history rewriting Rafa's love-in closely following.
 
give it a fucking rest. i've already said i'm not going there with you, because, frankly, i honestly (and unpleasantly, no doubt) think your stance on the rafa thing is not only wrong but also laughable, and i'd get no pleasure at all from blowing it to smithereens.

soz, but that's just the way i see it.
 
Yeah in the short term (12 months) we have certainly improved nobody here is going to argue that, however there are mitigating factors that should be address before booking the open top bus parade, our form and position of 12 months ago is not a barometer for succcess for this club, it was the worst that we have seen in something like 50 years so saying we are better than that now may be true but then so was Souness team and I dont think anybody considers them to have been world beaters.

The other issue is that in the slightly longer term (3-5 years) we are not a better side than we were during that period and the frightening thing is that its not from a lack of investment, I didnt expect us to get 4th this season, I still dont, and thats not just down to Kenny, the fantastic run we went on towards the end of last season papered over alot of cracks and probably raised expectations to an unattainable level.

That said we have gone and spent big in the summer only to see the side seemingly go backwards on the sort of results Kenny was achieving in his first 6 months, that happens football is not an exact science and every manager drops a few clangers, expensive or otherwise but Kenny needs to be swift and ruthless in rectifying his mistakes, this is not a team that can afford to have him defend Andy Carroll and say hes delighted with the contribution hes making while he embarrasses himself in a red shirt every week, our team/squad is not good enough to carry so many non contributing passengers.
 
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=48338.msg1465900#msg1465900 date=1326829846]
give it a fucking rest. i've already said i'm not going there with you, because, frankly, i honestly (and unpleasantly, no doubt) think your stance on the rafa thing is not only wrong but also laughable, and i'd get no pleasure at all from blowing it to smithereens.

soz, but that's just the way i see it.
[/quote]

Haha... You keep saying this Peter and I'm still waiting, if you weren't so obnoxious about it all and your laughable 'i'm right' attitude didn't grate so much, I'd be inclined to agree with half of what you post about Rafa. As it is, it's usually littered with exaggerated bollocks and selective reasoning. No surprise you're first in the queue to question kennys reign while it's still in it's infancy.
 
This time last year was a very difficult period and we have improved from a very low base.

The concern is that our improvement has stalled.

Signings that haven't worked and the long term loss of the club captain and lately the avoidable Suarez' absence through disciplinary problems have contributed.

I'm not concerned either by perceived failings with Dalglish's tactics or his coaching teams methods. All are experienced with a background of success and will know what to look at and what to change.

The return of key players will help, as will the director's showing further intent on investment. I don't believe they would've thought that one isolated investment period would turn the tide.

I think we are in good hands and that more patience than is currently being shown is needed. We are going to have to do things the Spurs way rather than say Citeh; constant squad updating at reasonable prices rather than stellar signings.

I suspect it'll get worse before it gets better.
 
I wouldnt use "Suarez missing" as an excuse. Personally I think that statement makes it even more evident that we're in poor shape.
One player missing shouldnt affect a top 4 team significantly. Doesnt matter how good he is.
It just proves that we're a one man team waiting for Suarez to pull something out of his ass for us to win.
 
[quote author=Modo link=topic=48338.msg1466128#msg1466128 date=1326890112]
I wouldnt use "Suarez missing" as an excuse. Personally I think that statement makes it even more evident that we're in poor shape.
One player missing shouldnt affect a top 4 team significantly. Doesnt matter how good he is.
It just proves that we're a one man team waiting for Suarez to pull something out of his ass for us to win.
[/quote]

I said
Signings that haven't worked and the long term loss of the club captain and lately the avoidable Suarez' absence through disciplinary problems have contributed
Click to expand...
. That's three factors not one, isn't it?

By the way why would I make an excuse for someone else's work? I'm just a fan giving an opinion, treat it as such.
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48338.msg1466117#msg1466117 date=1326887619]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=48338.msg1465900#msg1465900 date=1326829846]
give it a fucking rest. i've already said i'm not going there with you, because, frankly, i honestly (and unpleasantly, no doubt) think your stance on the rafa thing is not only wrong but also laughable, and i'd get no pleasure at all from blowing it to smithereens.

soz, but that's just the way i see it.
[/quote]

Haha... You keep saying this Peter and I'm still waiting, if you weren't so obnoxious about it all and your laughable 'i'm right' attitude didn't grate so much, I'd be inclined to agree with half of what you post about Rafa. As it is, it's usually littered with exaggerated bollocks and selective reasoning. No surprise you're first in the queue to question kennys reign while it's still in it's infancy.
[/quote]

provide evidence for this assertion.

and i don't think i'm being especially harsh about Dalglish. this season has been a disappointment so far - we're on course for 63 points: as i've said before, that's the kind of total that did for both Rafa and Houllier. that doesn't mean i want him sacked - and i couldn't give a toss if you think it does - but rather that i'm just a bit impatient with dopey sods claiming everything is rosy just because things are a bit less cataclysimically terrible than they were in the midst of Hodgson-Hicks-Gillett apocalypse.
 
Fair enough. Things are clearly not going well this season. But although bad seasons led to former managers being sacked, those same managers had other poor league seasons are were given chances to improve. So should Kenny
 
Lets spin the question around. If we are still in the same position in a years time, where would people's opinions stand on Kenny then?

Would his status justify him given longer to take the club forward, or will there be fans calling for a change?
 
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=48338.msg1466203#msg1466203 date=1326902284]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48338.msg1466117#msg1466117 date=1326887619]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=48338.msg1465900#msg1465900 date=1326829846]
give it a fucking rest. i've already said i'm not going there with you, because, frankly, i honestly (and unpleasantly, no doubt) think your stance on the rafa thing is not only wrong but also laughable, and i'd get no pleasure at all from blowing it to smithereens.

soz, but that's just the way i see it.
[/quote]

Haha... You keep saying this Peter and I'm still waiting, if you weren't so obnoxious about it all and your laughable 'i'm right' attitude didn't grate so much, I'd be inclined to agree with half of what you post about Rafa. As it is, it's usually littered with exaggerated bollocks and selective reasoning. No surprise you're first in the queue to question kennys reign while it's still in it's infancy.
[/quote]

provide evidence for this assertion.

and i don't think i'm being especially harsh about Dalglish. this season has been a disappointment so far - we're on course for 63 points: as i've said before, that's the kind of total that did for both Rafa and Houllier. that doesn't mean i want him sacked - and i couldn't give a toss if you think it does - but rather that i'm just a bit impatient with dopey sods claiming everything is rosy just because things are a bit less cataclysimically terrible than they were in the midst of Hodgson-Hicks-Gillett apocalypse.
[/quote]
I'd say you were great fun round the xmas dinner table.
 
[quote author=mr_moo link=topic=48338.msg1466266#msg1466266 date=1326917519]
Lets spin the question around. If we are still in the same position in a years time, where would people's opinions stand on Kenny then?

Would his status justify him given longer to take the club forward, or will there be fans calling for a change?
[/quote]

I dont think his status should have much to do with it, if this time next year we are sitting in 7th with one of the most impotent strikeforces in the league and still drawing 7/10 home games then its probably time for Kenny to move back upstairs. We have taken two steps forward and one step back so to speak under Kenny so far, I would give him another year to make more progress but the glaring weaknesses have to be addressed, no manager is unsackable if they dont deliver results, if we dont get 4th next year hes a goner
 
Given his history, if Kenny Dalglish thought he couldn't help the Football Club I'm pretty sure he wouldn't waste time on vanity and resign. He's always considered the clubs interests as well as his own in the past and I don't see him staying if he thought he was in the way.

The board, Dalglish and his team will know the problems that need addressing. Given the business and marketing activity around the club our backers won't wait too long for success as they'll need it to continue to build the clubs appeal. Just look at the commercial deals we're making, the club are obviously not short on ambition and will want a management team to see it through.
 
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