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This isn't what I thought we were going to get

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Mors

Mors

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Now, to mitigate what I'm about to post, I KNOW we have a thin squad and might not have the players Brendan wants.

BUT

When he came in, I thought we were going to start playing like Swansea/Arsenal/Barca, in other words, pissing around with 10 thousand passes every game, and us moaning that we're trying to walk it in every game, after creating boatloads of chances and not putting them away. But I was going to be happy to accept that, as football was being played the proper way, and I do genuinely like the bloke, what he says, having the balls to make big decisions, playing the kids when needs be etc.

But it's just not working out that way, all we seem to do is pass the ball around in the back 2 thirds, only to turn round when we get to the opponents box, and start heading back towards our own keeper. Yes, keeping possession, yes keeping the ball on the floor, yes 'death by football', but creating nothing.

There's just absolute scraps for Suarez to work off, and thank the gods we've got him at the moment, with a silly high conversion rate, because we're creating nothing for him, and he's got no backup on the goals front. No one else looks like getting a goal, I think some of it is down to the players not being goal scorers (sterling, downing, cole, henderson, allen, lucas) but I think a big chunk of it is down to the system. How many sitters are we missing? Not a lot as we're not creating any.

We're on about we desperately need this goalscorer in Jan, and everyone is getting excited about huntelaar, walcott, sturridge, whoever. But how many goals do you think a goal scorer is going to get with zero supply? Suarez is a genius and can pretty much create his own goals. How many do other top goalscorers create for themselves? Not a fat lot, they expect to have some chances to work off, and the team around them to be creative, ours is not.

I'm very concerned that we're going to buy this wonderful striker in Jan (not likely) then we're going to all get on his back as 'its not worked out' and he's not scoring, but he's getting fuck all to work off.

I'm not sure what the solution is to this, but I'm not sure buying a goal scorer is. If we buy an out and out striker, I'm guessing the only option would be to put Suarez out wide in a wing-forward role and have him 'creating', but isn't that a waste considering his form infront of goal as of late? I think we might need someone to come in to replace sterling, with actual end product, if we're going to do the above. But I can't think of any players for that role that would even consider joining us. Walcott currently does a similar role for the arse, but the only way I can see him joining us is if we promise him a role upfront. Why on earth would he swap arsenal for us to be in exactly the same position?

This tippy tappy stuff is wearing me down, I just want some end product to it. And there isn't any. I'm not expecting us to score 5 goals a game and create 25 goal scoring chances every game, just SOME. Knocking 600 passes around every game, but only having about 3 passes in the opposition box is just crap. I'm hoping Brendan can sort this, but if we continue drawing/losing most games until the end of the season, I'm not sure if he'll be able to finish his 'masterpiece' and probably rightly so, football is a results driven business, we not making bloody cheese or wine :s
 
I've been saying since last season that one good striker isn't going to magically transform our side. We need to fix our entire front six, not just the front three. So far the only substantial change this season has been the addition of the kids and players like Allen and Şahin who're better technically than the ones we had last season. But the front 6 is still looking as dysfunctional as it did last year.

A lot of it is circumstantial - the inability to get a replacement for Carroll, the injuries to Lucas and Borini. But Rodgers isn't helping himself too much either. For the most part this season, we've had three midfielders, each playing out of their comfort zone. Allen being played in the holding role is understandable, but you're starting to see now the significance of a specialist DM to a side. Allen's a quality footballer, and has acquitted himself well for the most part. But there's a lot more to being a DM than having the ability to pass the ball intelligently. His shielding of the ball and tackling is of a player who's never played the deepest position in midfield. And it isn't that he can't do it. He just doesn't have the experience doing it. It's a specialist position for a reason - the likes of Didi, Makelele grew up as thoroughbred DMs from the beginning of their careers - learning how to intercept, to lay off unnecessary tackles, to shield the ball, and play the simple passes. Lucas took two whole years to get good at it, and it's unfair to Allen to expect him to pick up the pace in a couple of months. I've suggested playing Henderson there for two reasons - he's a bigger, stronger lad, and is a pretty intelligent and technically competent player as well. And while he's a complete misfit in any role that requires him to be creative, the holding position might just suit him well. He's even played there a couple of times with Şahin, and I've liked that combination when they've played together. It'd also free up Allen to go higher up the pitch.

Şahin and Gerrard I've spoken about at length. Şahin's been given the short end of the stick a bit I feel. He's been played higher up the pitch when he's completely unsuited for that role. He's not very good at carrying the ball, nor is he a player with energy or drive, or much physicality or explosiveness to his game to be able to play in a role that requires you to play either with your back to goal or on the pacy counter face front to goal. It's pretty odd to see him up there; he's looking like a fish out of water. Unfortunately, bringing the best out of him isn't also as simple as just bringing him back into his favoured deeper position. The problem there is that he lacks an appropriate midfield partner (a DM). Why he was so good at Dortmund was because he played alongside one of the best young DMs in Germany in Bender. Allen's really not an appropriate partner as he's too similar. As for Gerrard, I've made my thoughts clear on his playing in the deeper position several times. He's rubbish at it. I'd go as far as saying that I'd rather not having him on the pitch if he's playing in any position other than in the attacking third.

So, through a combination of circumstances and Rodgers' choices, we're seeing a fucking warped midfield. If I were him, this would be my recipe for midfield EVERY game.

Holding position: Lucas/Henderson
2nd midfield position: Şahin/Allen/Shelvey
3rd midfield position: Gerrard/Allen/Shelvey/Suso

Any deviation from that fucks up the balance badly (and I'm still not entirely happy with the options for the holding position. I have my doubts about Lucas returning very strongly. If I could, I'd still add a player like M'vila/Wanyama/Capoue to that mix for the holding position).

That lack of balance is further compounded by two things:
(i) just two fit attacking players of note (a third also in Assaidi, but who, inexplicably, is never played) - everyone knows this, we need at least two top quality additions here to be in with a chance of making it to the top 8 this season
(ii) almost always setting up with one full-back who offers nothing going forward - it's seriously impending passing options in midfield, and leaving the side short of width on side of the pitch, and giving the opposition a man advantage down that flank and cutting off space for the midfield.

In short, Rodgers needs to change a shitload of things both from a personnel and formation perspective.
 
We'd benefit from a dedicated DM but plenty of other sides play without one and seem to get by.

Things would be a lot easier if we starting scoring goals.
 
Fuck me that's an excellent post dmishra and sums up my thoughts much more eloquently than I have the patience to type.
 
I agree completely with what you're saying dmishra, but I'm not sure even when everyone is fit, and played in the correct position, whether this set of players +this super striker everyone wants, in this system, is going to be creative. I think Brendan is happy for us to boss our 2/3rds and go away with the draw, the way he's currently going. Something needs to change in that final 3rd, creativity-wise, and it's not a finisher at the moment, as there's no chances to finish.
 
Beautiful thread and great posts!

I doubt 1 player would transform us, well unless Messi decides he wants a real challenge.
 
Almost didn't read this thread as Mors can be a little depressing ... but that is a very good post, and dmishra then enhances further. Details quite clearly the problems we face.
 
"That's our sixth draw [of the season] and we've come back after going behind in a lot of those games," Rodgers said. "So there's a lot of resilience there. But we need the materials, and if we can get one or two in up top in January, we'll finish off a lot of our good football and turn some of those draws into wins.
"The club have given me great support since I came here. The owners have give me security, the supporters have been fantastic and the players have given me everything. The supporters are very educated and they've been very lenient on myself and the team. I thank them for that."
Click to expand...

"We need one or two more players, it’s as simple as that," said Rodgers. "That’s our sixth draw. A lot of those games we’ve come back into after going behind. We’re normally dominating games with the ball. But we need materials. If we can get one or two in January, we’ll turn draws into wins.

"Those players don’t come cheap, and they’re not many available in January either. But the owners have given me great support since I’ve been here. I knew it would be a difficult year given the expectancy in Liverpool. The players are giving us everything. Hopefully we can add to the group in the next two windows, and next season we’ll be better for it. We finished eighth last year. If we can improve on that, it’ll be fantastic. That’s the reality of where Liverpool are I’m afraid."
Click to expand...

Well Rodgers seems confident enough that only a few more changes are needed .

Considering how poor the league is apart from the teams right at the top , , is finishing higher than 8th "fantastic" ?. And if this is the reality of where we are do we not need alot more than " one or two up top " ? . Anyway ,whatever .
 
Some very good posts and points in this thread. Imho its a bit early to make a judgement of what we were going to get. We're in transition, need new players that fit in, get injured players back and develop an understanding of what Rodgers wants them to do.

If this was November 2013 I'd agree mind..
 
Mish has it bang on.

One thing worth pointing out is that you can see our intent late on, we're passing the ball during games - whatever you say about end product, it's still some feat going to the Bridge and having 53% possession, and then in the last 20-30 minutes we're hitting teams more direct, exploiting tiredness and getting in behind. We've done this for a good few games now. This is promising in the sense that, A) we're not just intent on 'passing it in', we have some variation and willingness to hit teams directly, and B) if we do get a couple of more attackers, this 20-30 minute spell will be complimented by and end product during the rest of the game when our patient build up creates fewer chances. Having someone more prolific who can take those limited chances will be a big shot in the arm.

It's also worth noting that without a natural striker, that too can stun creativity. It's ok sitting here saying we don't create much, Stevie (for example) has always said he thrives on a player infront of him on the shoulder of the last defender whom he can slip the ball through to, Suarez is too much of a busy bee to be that player, he's too involved in the build up play, so there is little movement infront of the midfield to make space to run into or making a run to identify. Hopefully with the addition of someone like Walcott, or a different target in there who will grasp half chances, it will change and we'll see openings carved more frequently.

Hoddle made more or less the same point after the game yesterday, you can see how eye catching our play is, give us a couple of attackers and we could well be a force to be reckoned with. But most of us have been saying that for months anyway, it's the numpties making ridiculous Hodgson comparisons who are missing the point.
 
The only real comparison i've seen made between the two is regards their record as manager here . And well what's so wrong with that ? . Hodgson wasn't right for this club or the position it was in but he was never given a chance at all . So why is Rodgers so different ? Well apart from the fact we've zero expectations the main reason seems to be he's trying , or at least talking about , playing attractive football . Fair enough it might all come together but right now my concern is that could all fly out the window if results don't improve . I still think Kenny had us playing better football than Rodgers but look how that turned when results and pressure mounted .

Anyway our next 10 fixtures are on paper much kinder than our previous 11 . It's time to see an upturn in results and i don't see what's wrong with expecting that . Rodgers has done fuck all in football compared to the majority who've managed us so i want to see signs he's as good as people say. It will be very interesting to see where we are at the end of these 10 games .
 
We need the owners to back up their assertion that Rodgers is the right man for the job with hard cash. Then we need him to spend it on the right players. Then we need those players to actually be fucking good. Keeping the ball and passing it endlessly backwards and sideways means fuck all. We need to be passing the ball forward and need players in the final third who are quick in thought and action, ruthless and determined. Two more Suarezs would be fine. The lack of guile up front and attacking from midfield is painful.
 
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