• You may have to login or register before you can post and view our exclusive members only forums.
    To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

This one is on Rodgers

Status
Not open for further replies.

rurikbird

Part of the Furniture
Honorary Member
Let's recap our manager's mistakes today:

1. Starting Allen over Lucas - inexplicable and disastrous. We might have been able to get away with a 2-man midfield against the Saints had it been Lucas and Gerrard, although I could also see a case for a 3-man midfield from the start. But with Allen and Gerrard as the only CMs we had no chance. Really, what the fuck was he thinking? How can a manager who knows his tactics, knows the league and has a cool head (which he showed in the Tottenham game) become so incompetent and indecisive in the next game? Baffling.

2. We had a decent enough first 15 minutes in the 2nd half. But after that our energy started to drop and Saints again started using the spaces in midfield that got for a time closed down because of Lucas's introduction, but now were too wide for him alone to cover (as Gerrard started throwing himself forward more in search on the equalizer). Any fan could tell an infusion of energy from another midfielder was needed. To wait until 85-minute to throw Henderson on was another inexplicable mistake.

3. Mentioning "top-4" again before the game. This was a similar situation to Villa and West Brom games: we come after a good run against a team we are confident of beating - there is a danger of our players not respecting the opponent enough. This is psychology, not superstition. And it's a pattern we all noticed - as soon as we start looking up the table and talking about top 4 before the game, we lose to a team we should never lose to. Rodgers wasn't as overt in his comments as he was before Villa and Brom, but he only half-learned his lesson, and it doesn't count.

And I don't agree with the view that players let him down today. No, with this lineup and tactics we were set up for failure. We had our best attacking 4 up front, but they were chasing shadows instead of attacking because we were completely overrun in midfield. Can you really blame Coutinho or Downing for this? Or even Gerrard and Allen? They were set up wrong from the start and even the half-time introduction of Lucas was too late.

Everybody gets starting lineup wrong from time to time, but Mourinho would have made the change after 15 minutes, if he saw his team being overrun like that. I think the players have to be completely absolved of any blame for this defeat, it's squarely on the manager.
 
Agree with all that, point 3 doesn't bother me that much but I suppose it's better to keep your mouth shut when things are going well.

For whatever reason Allen gives very little defensively, people shrug him off like a kid and that's what he looks like chasing the big boys around to get the ball back. Gerrard can't do that much defensively either any more, you can see him not chasing or getting back at times, he's still a good player but the setup of the side shouldn't need him to chase and win the ball back. The two can't go together at the moment, Rodgers obviously knows there are problems in defense so why doesn't he at least try to put some protection ahead of them? 3 centre mids or Lucas? I've no idea what he was thinking.
 
Formation and players wrong 2 games running for me. Got lucky in the last game and caught out in this. I was expecting it to be the other way round, I thought we'd smash these and lose to fc bale
 
Let's recap our manager's mistakes today:

1. Starting Allen over Lucas - inexplicable and disastrous. We might have been able to get away with a 2-man midfield against the Saints had it been Lucas and Gerrard, although I could also see a case for a 3-man midfield from the start. But with Allen and Gerrard as the only CMs we had no chance. Really, what the fuck was he thinking? How can a manager who knows his tactics, knows the league and has a cool head (which he showed in the Tottenham game) become so incompetent and indecisive in the next game? Baffling.

2. We had a decent enough first 15 minutes in the 2nd half. But after that our energy started to drop and Saints again started using the spaces in midfield that got for a time closed down because of Lucas's introduction, but now were too wide for him alone to cover (as Gerrard started throwing himself forward more in search on the equalizer). Any fan could tell an infusion of energy from another midfielder was needed. To wait until 85-minute to throw Henderson on was another inexplicable mistake.

3. Mentioning "top-4" again before the game. This was a similar situation to Villa and West Brom games: we come after a good run against a team we are confident of beating - there is a danger of our players not respecting the opponent enough. This is psychology, not superstition. And it's a pattern we all noticed - as soon as we start looking up the table and talking about top 4 before the game, we lose to a team we should never lose to. Rodgers wasn't as overt in his comments as he was before Villa and Brom, but he only half-learned his lesson, and it doesn't count.

And I don't agree with the view that players let him down today. No, with this lineup and tactics we were set up for failure. We had our best attacking 4 up front, but they were chasing shadows instead of attacking because we were completely overrun in midfield. Can you really blame Coutinho or Downing for this? Or even Gerrard and Allen? They were set up wrong from the start and even the half-time introduction of Lucas was too late.

Everybody gets starting lineup wrong from time to time, but Mourinho would have made the change after 15 minutes, if he saw his team being overrun like that. I think the players have to be completely absolved of any blame for this defeat, it's squarely on the manager.

You make some decent points, but also some questionable ones. In particular the bolded bit.
 
In every match, even winning games, the team is running on empty after 75 minutes and our peformance dips. WTF are our fitness and conditioning coaches doing, we never used to look like a team of geriatrics late in a game before, something has changed for the worse.

Southampton looked fitter than us and this despite their high energy pressing in the first half which you would expect to effect them later in the game
 
Agree with all that, point 3 doesn't bother me that much but I suppose it's better to keep your mouth shut when things are going well.

For whatever reason Allen gives very little defensively, people shrug him off like a kid and that's what he looks like chasing the big boys around to get the ball back. Gerrard can't do that much defensively either any more, you can see him not chasing or getting back at times, he's still a good player but the setup of the side shouldn't need him to chase and win the ball back. The two can't go together at the moment, Rodgers obviously knows there are problems in defense so why doesn't he at least try to put some protection ahead of them? 3 centre mids or Lucas? I've no idea what he was thinking.

It's difficult to fight for the ball with a bad shoulder. It's not Allen's fault. It's Rodgers' fault for putting him in a 2-man midfield with Gerrard in an away game.
 
Rodgers has to take most of the blame today, and the overconfidence he had towards the tactic and players were wrong. It was as if we didnt know how the Saints would set up and we looked clueless for 43 mins.

Allen is injured. Should have had the operation already and stop fucking about.
You could see he was struggeling with pain.

The players have to take their part of the blame though.
We got overrun and most of the players had an off day.
 
Players can withdraw themselves with injury. Allen surely must have given a go?
 
Rodgers has to take most of the blame today, and the overconfidence he had towards the tactic and players were wrong. It was as if we didnt know how the Saints would set up and we looked clueless for 43 mins.

Allen is injured. Should have had the operation already and stop fucking about.
You could see he was struggeling with pain.

The players have to take their part of the blame though.
We got overrun and most of the players had an off day.

It's not a coincidence. There is a good rule - when most of the team plays badly, it's the manager's fault.

Frankly, I wouldn't even blame Skrtel who had clearly a bad game - but he is not match sharp, obviously low on confidence and in his first game back he walks into an absolute onslaught with our paper-thin midfield not even being able to slow down Saints' attackers let alone stop them.
 
It's difficult to fight for the ball with a bad shoulder. It's not Allen's fault. It's Rodgers' fault for putting him in a 2-man midfield with Gerrard in an away game.

I don't disagree with that, I never said it was his fault just that those 2 can't go together and Rodgers should see that or at least react faster when it becomes obvious.
 
It doesnt excuse players getting bypassed with ease or lose control of an easy pass.
Thats not Rodgers fault.
That rule sounds a bit to much Rurik

Skrtel has apperantly told the club he wants to leave and we're willing to let him go.
He played like he's off today.
 
You make some decent points, but also some questionable ones. In particular the bolded bit.

Agree with Del here. Rodgers is not to blame for the amount of times Allen gave the ball away, or how many times he dived in, or got the wrong side of his man. These are basics, wherever you play on the park.
 
Agree with Del here. Rodgers is not to blame for the amount of times Allen gave the ball away, or how many times he dived in, or got the wrong side of his man. These are basics, wherever you play on the park.


Allen has been playing that like for months and now we're also being told he's playing with an injury. Meanwhile Henderson who has improved and looked half decent when given a chance can't seem to get a game at the moment.

Rodgers is to blame because Allen shouldn't have been on the pitch.
 
Agree with Del here. Rodgers is not to blame for the amount of times Allen gave the ball away, or how many times he dived in, or got the wrong side of his man. These are basics, wherever you play on the park.


Yea but he's been doing it quite a lot, does Rodgers expect a miracle turn around? Unless it's a freak bad game it still falls on the manager. He needs to manage his resources better if Joe Allen isn't playing great don't make him an important part of the plan or give him more help.
 
It doesnt excuse players getting bypassed with ease or lose control of an easy pass.
Thats not Rodgers fault.
That rule sounds a bit to much Rurik

It works the other way too. If most of the team plays well but still doesn't get the 3 points then you can't blame the manager.

We were the better team against United and City at home and it wasn't Rodgers fault we didn't get 6 points.
 
Yep, thats the big one for me today. Allen has been good in his last 3 games, but looked very affected by his injury. Hendo should have started. Poor by Rodgers and I hope its a lesson learned.
It was a Rafaesque I'm playing the players I've signed regardless moment.
 
I hate to say it but to me it looks like another case of a manager preferring his own signing.
Just like Maxi vs Downing and Hendo last season.
 
I hate to say it but to me it looks like another case of a manager preferring his own signing.
Just like Maxi vs Downing and Hendo last season.

Well considering he hasnt been afraid to leave Allen out in quite a few games before today, i dont think it's right to suggest Rodgers is favouring in his own signings.
 
Well considering he hasnt been afraid to leave Allen out in quite a few games before today, i dont think it's right to suggest Rodgers is favouring in his own signings.
How long did Allan have to be terrible in order for him to be dropped?
 
How long did Allan have to be terrible in order for him to be dropped?

He did eventually drop him though.
Kenny persisted with Henderson, Downing, Carroll etc throughout the season when we had much better players on the bench/in the stands.

The way Rodgers has given Enrique, Henderson and Downing a fair chance after initially suggesting they weren't part of his plans tells it's own story. Ok, he maybe had to play them such is the lack of depth in the squad but he still gave them another chance.

He might have got it wrong today but it's very unfair to say he has blind faith in his own signings.
 
If the players are going to get yips every time the manager talks about 4th place, then I think its unfair to criticize the manager for it. The players should grow a a
 
Rodgers is culpable, clearly, but no wholly. Footballers, given their wage, should always be putting in a hard shift on a Saturday afternoon and, at the very least, consistently get the basics right. That's not too much to ask is it?

Fair play to Southampton for taking advantage. They were excellent all afternoon.
 
Allen has been playing that like for months and now we're also being told he's playing with an injury. Meanwhile Henderson who has improved and looked half decent when given a chance can't seem to get a game at the moment.

Rodgers is to blame because Allen shouldn't have been on the pitch.
Fair point, Ken. I guess Rodgers just expects a £15m player to at least be able to get these things right, which he obviously can;t
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom