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Thoughts from Stoke

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J Macleod

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- We were fucked from the outset. We all saw it so what was Kenny playing at? Five defenders. One striker who hasn't scored all year. At home. To Stoke. Christ.
- The fact we were all clamouring for Carroll's inclusion, thinking he'd make all the difference, really shows how low we've sunk.
- Speaking of Carroll, isn't he supposed to be like a big, hard man? Stay on your feet, you fucking vagina. Show some strength.
- Adam, while playing some nice passes, is woeful at free kicks and corners. They never seem to beat the first man.
- No Maxi? Not even on the bench? Astounding. He'll be gone soon enough. Ridiculous.
- It's 4:15am here in Australia and I stayed up to watch that shit. I'm going to bed. Goodnight.
 
Hmm, We haven't really come on a great deal from Woy's time here. Certainly not from Rafa.

Several hundred million over the course of 5 years and theres still the need to play a back fucking five against stoke city, AT HOME.
 
Kenny is the opposite of Hodge?

Just can't get a result at home while his away form is pretty good.
 
We NEED someone who can find the back of the net. Or even someone who knows in which direction it roughly is.
 
[quote author=athensruairi link=topic=48303.msg1464416#msg1464416 date=1326562637]
We NEED someone who can find the back of the net. Or even someone who knows in which direction it roughly is.
[/quote]
Or even someone who knows someone who knows how to score goals. And someone who will pay for that someone that someone hopefully knows. And someone who will actually put this unicorn-like creature in the team.
 
What Im thinking about the most after this game is how the hell Kuyt didnt even get that header on goal. Fuck me.
 
I really don't bother watching much these days. It says something that the SCM threads about the matches are usually more entertaining than the actual matches.
 
I think some explanation for the formation is required. Perhaps there was a worry Coates or Carra could straight-swap for Agger's role. Coates made a few mistakes but I think he, and Carra, could've dealt with what Stoke threw at them. We didn't need a deep lying 3 at the back. Perhaps they're testing this formation for the second leg against City. I think the formation suits that game more than it did against Stoke. By half-time it was obvious the defense had nothing to worry about, and we didn't need to clog up the midfield. Still no idea why line up like this against Stoke.

Johnson and Enrique are smarter offensively than everyone on that team today, barring Gerrard. Their crosses need work, but they're the ones making it into the right positions.

Adam and Hendo, decent enough. A few great passes from Adam, a couple nice touches from Henderson.

Kuyt can't be the front man, or the lone striker. Not this year, at least. Still he's able to do things up top that Carroll seems incapable of.

Thought that the team perhaps didn't need to buy this window. Not true.
 
Kenny knows a lot more about football than I do. However, as soon as we heard the team sheet before the match kicked off we knew we weren't going to score. What made Kenny think we were going to do anything with Dirk on his own up front? The formation would have been OK if we were playing Barcelona away in the CL. :🙂
 
I didn't want to leave the 12th man after hearing the team sheet.

Kuyt is done. Thanks for everything, but it's over.

Henderson likes the give and go. He gives the ball and disappears.

Gerrard makes the game look so easy.

Our best wingers are the full backs.

We are so slow in play without Suarez.

I fucking hate Downing.

Refs are bent or totally incompetent.
 
completely nonplussed at that selection and formation, this was as badly thought out as Rafa or Roy ever managed between them. What was going through Kenny's mind? How can you play anyone up front on their own with the worst first touch in the squad beggars belief. That result was inevitable as soon as the team was read out.
Christ it's not even as if we have some sort of injury crisis, we were only really missing one man, but If anyone thinks we are not missing Luis , think again

I think J Mcleod has it nailed in the original post to be honest.

regards
 
Tbh that formation only played to Stokes strenghts, and they had it easy.

Why we didnt go for it and took of a cb is beyond me.
 
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=48303.msg1464442#msg1464442 date=1326565427]
Why we didnt go for it and took of a cb is beyond me.
[/quote]

I agree! Stoke weren't presenting any kind of attacking threat. We could have safely played with far more ambition.
 
Downing really is awful. He barely impacts upon on the game and it's such a contrast to when Bellamy plays on the left.

I will never understand how we could have paid £18 million for Downing.
 
[quote author=Chan link=topic=48303.msg1464448#msg1464448 date=1326566762]
Downing really is awful. He barely impacts upon on the game and it's such a contrast to when Bellamy plays on the left.

I will never understand how we could have paid £18 million for Downing.
[/quote]

Oh, he certainly hasnt delivered. But taking him off when Carroll is coming on is beyond me.
 
I didn't watch the game, did their keeper play a blinder (as they always seem to do against us?)?
 
Re: Re: Thoughts from Stoke

[quote author=iseered link=topic=48303.msg1#msg1 date=1326562362]
My thought:
A ridiculously over the top deal for Bent is starting to sound good.
[/quote]
Thats so wrong, no offence but we dont score goals and people start screaming for a new striker.
We need creative wingers and creative attacking mids.
A Silva, Mata, Hazard type player. I've been saying for ages it seems its pretty fucking dire now.
A striker is just a bonus IMO. So we buy a striker Ok, whos gonna create the goal chances Gerrard. Then were back to square one again.
Not every striker is like Suarez and tbh we're relying on him too much.
 
[quote author=hmmmmm1 link=topic=48303.msg1464451#msg1464451 date=1326567785]
I didn't watch the game, did their keeper play a blinder (as they always seem to do against us?)?
[/quote]
No. He didn't have much to do to be honest.
 
Re: Re: Thoughts from Stoke

[quote author=Modo link=topic=48303.msg1464452#msg1464452 date=1326567813]
[quote author=iseered link=topic=48303.msg1#msg1 date=1326562362]
My thought:
A ridiculously over the top deal for Bent is starting to sound good.
[/quote]
Thats so wrong, no offence but we dont score goals and people start screaming for a new striker.
We need creative wingers and creative attacking mids.
A Silva, Mata, Hazard type player. I've been saying for ages it seems its pretty fucking dire now.
A striker is just a bonus IMO. So we buy a striker Ok, whos gonna create the goal chances Gerrard. Then were back to square one again.
Not every striker is like Suarez and tbh we're relying on him too much.
[/quote]
Most of this year we have been creating plenty. Today was an anomaly in that regard. We are top of the chances created table, but bottom of the chances converted table. Obviously we need someone who scores goals.
 
Re: Re: Thoughts from Stoke

[quote author=iseered link=topic=48303.msg1464454#msg1464454 date=1326568043]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=48303.msg1464452#msg1464452 date=1326567813]
[quote author=iseered link=topic=48303.msg1#msg1 date=1326562362]
My thought:
A ridiculously over the top deal for Bent is starting to sound good.
[/quote]
Thats so wrong, no offence but we dont score goals and people start screaming for a new striker.
We need creative wingers and creative attacking mids.
A Silva, Mata, Hazard type player. I've been saying for ages it seems its pretty fucking dire now.
A striker is just a bonus IMO. So we buy a striker Ok, whos gonna create the goal chances Gerrard. Then were back to square one again.
Not every striker is like Suarez and tbh we're relying on him too much.
[/quote]
Most of this year we have been creating plenty. Today was an anomaly in that regard. We are top of the chances created table, but bottom of the chances converted table. Obviously we need someone who scores goals.
[/quote]

We're not a creative side. Using the 'chances created' stat to say that we are is myopic.
 
It all makes you wonder, where are we going in the next 2-5 years?

Does Kenny have what we need? If this was a younger manager having tactical issues (mistakes/oversights? don't know what to call it) we would be happy enough hoping they would improve with experience.

How many of our squad are really good enough to take us to the next level?
 
Wow so is it just me who thinks that our biggest problem this season is that none of our attacking players score goals? We have missed so many sitters it is unbelievable. If anything about this game is symptomatic of our season it isnt our bizarrely negative tactics, but Kuyt's header wide. Whether we are a "creative side" or not is semantics. We have created more than enough to have scored plenty more goals and acquired plenty more points.
 
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=48303.msg1464450#msg1464450 date=1326567429]
[quote author=Chan link=topic=48303.msg1464448#msg1464448 date=1326566762]
Downing really is awful. He barely impacts upon on the game and it's such a contrast to when Bellamy plays on the left.

I will never understand how we could have paid £18 million for Downing.
[/quote]

Oh, he certainly hasnt delivered. But taking him off when Carroll is coming on is beyond me.
[/quote]

I agree, Carragher or Coates should have been taken off. But I have no confidence in Downing doing anything useful anyway.
 
I think we're a quality attacking midfielder/winger and a quality striker away from being a good side.
Our back 5 is solid and doesnt need any changing.

We miss Lucas badly, as a midfield duo of Lucas and Gerrard will be ace.

If Kenny is the right man for the job or not I dont know. But if we dont adress our goalscoring problems in some form or shape in this window I'll be livid.
 
[quote author=iseered link=topic=48303.msg1464458#msg1464458 date=1326568592]
Wow so is it just me who thinks that our biggest problem this season is that none of our attacking players score goals? We have missed so many sitters it is unbelievable. If anything about this game is symptomatic of our season it isnt our bizarrely negative tactics, but Kuyt's header wide. Whether we are a "creative side" or not is semantics. We have created more than enough to have scored plenty more goals and acquired plenty more points.
[/quote]

I think that's an absolutely wrong diagnosis. Unfortunately, it's the kind of diagnosis I fear the management will also make.

I hope fucking not. We don't need a 'goalscorer'. We need quality attacking players - they don't need to be right footed, left footed, or have the ability to 'cross' or have the the ability to 'stick the ball in the net'. There is no 'type' of player we particularly need. One more Suarez would add infinitely more to the team than a supposed 'goalscorer' like Defoe or Bent. Just like Mata would have added more to our side than Downing. But half the people on here said we needed a 'left winger' more than an attacking midfielder when the point is you always take world class over average-to-good.
 
A side with good movement makes those labels obsolete imo. Quality attacking players are comfortable drifting wide or going through the centre and don't just stick to one or the other.
 
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=48303.msg1464462#msg1464462 date=1326568859]
I think we're a quality attacking midfielder/winger and a quality striker away from being a good side.
Our back 5 is solid and doesnt need any changing.

We miss Lucas badly, as a midfield duo of Lucas and Gerrard will be ace.

If Kenny is the right man for the job or not I dont know. But if we dont adress our goalscoring problems in some form or shape in this window I'll be livid.
[/quote]

"The missing piece in jigsaw away from being a good side"

That should be Liverpool's mantra of the last 20 years.....
 
well if the man city game was midweek I could understand the selection but it isn't.
kenny was obviously scared of the aerial threat of stoke and adjusted his back line accordingly.

this is so painful.

stoke is a very organised side, everyone of their players knows their role and will defend like their lives depended on it.
when not in possession of the ball they will get bodies behind the ball in numbers making it very hard to break them down.

play needed to be lightning fast to buy the player in possession of the ball that extra yard of space and today we were misrable in possession of the ball. far too many touches, far too little movement. I don't think stoke will have an easier game all season. did their keeper have to make a save in 9 mins?

side to side, side to side. zzzzzzzzzzzzz.
there are give and goes but all of it in non dangerous areas. front to back players afraid to take players on in case they lose it and get the crowd on their back.

you have fullbacks that are carrying more threat than attacking players and attacking players who are more willing to pass it back than forwards. so predictable, so easy to defend against.
you also have a player (maxi) that does provide good movement and invention but can't get a sniff.

anyway,

1. kuyt
what ever mojo kuyt had has left him now and he is running around like a headless chicken, neither holding up the ball, getting behind the opposition players or providing a goal threat.
got himself into a great position and fluffed his lines. not a single goal this season and possibly not a single assist. we need to be moving him on in the summer and buying a player who has the ability to be more direct.

2. downing
actually does hae the pace and willingness to bring the ball forwards but once he gets there has no clue to do with the ball so will more often than not pass it back or square.
that said it was daft to bring offf downing rather than henderson when carroll came on.
wasn't downing bought to provide service for carroll?

3. adam
I think he should be taken off set piece duty know as his corners and free kicks are becoming less effective by the week. I will applaud the fact he at least tries to force the play and pull some a couple of excellent cross field balls.

4. henderson
tidy. that is the best way to describe him, tidy. doesn't take risks, doesn't gamble, doesn't try to force the play, just keeps the ball ticking over and rare gives the ball away when he passes. I do think he has 'something' about him but seemingly terrified to try anything.

5. carroll
I think he could be excellent in the right team with the right service but we don't play in the manner to capitalize on his strengths and don't give him the service he needs.
suarez has been out for a few games, kuyt doesn't have single goal and still carroll is left on the bench for a home game. no midweek game for resting the player can't be used as an excuse.

this season is threatning to end very early and not with a bang but with a whimper.
too many teams are going to anfield with the express purpose of getting a point and too many are succeeding. before we seemed toothless with regards to finishing chances, now it seems we are going to struggle to even create chances.
from to back we are terrifield of being caught out of position, when the ball eventually finds itself in the box there should be 4 or 5 players queuing up not 1 or 2, we are relying on indiidual brilliance to break down stubburn defences.

this is really tiring and seems like groundhouse day. we're just meandering alone with not guts to go for teams threats and claim all three points because we are terrified we may lose one point if we get caught on the counter attack. we really have the the mentality of a midtable side and midtable is exactly were we are going to finish. at least we only hae a couple of stars to lose and one of them commited his long term future.
 
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