• You may have to login or register before you can post and view our exclusive members only forums.
    To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Title Defence -are we just knackered?

Status
Not open for further replies.
You can't blame Kabak or Phillips for that, it's 100% on Klopp and the coaching staff. Every game we are giving up 1 v 1 chances against the keeper because a simple through pass into space takes out our entire defence. Creating chances against us isn't the sign of a good team, you have to be a poor team not to be able to get at us.

I don't get it, it's been obvious since the Villa game and yet we've done nothing to change it. When your defensive set up makes Ross Barkley look like a prime Zidane then maybe its not that shit hot.
I think I read somewhere last season that Klopp is aware of the vulnerability but sees it as a risk/reward scenario where this style of play offers up more rewards than it does create risks.
Unfortunately, our capacity, or lack of it, to capitalise on the chances created by the system, the rewards, are leaving us very vulnerable to the risks we take.
I guess with a makeshift backline for much of the season we are probably offering up more chances to the opposition by the risks we continue to take.
In the current circumstances an adjustment in the system wouldn't be unwarranted or unreasonable I think
 
It's interesting that the point team taking the same comparable risks is Bayern and they are unstoppable. But they also have arguably the best finisher in football playing upfront for them. It's a scenario that leaves very little margin for error. When you are playing the 8th choice CB pairing it seems foolish to persist with a highwire act that requires sustained brilliance to pull off.
 
It's interesting that the point team taking the same comparable risks is Bayern and they are unstoppable. But they also have arguably the best finisher in football playing upfront for them. It's a scenario that leaves very little margin for error. When you are playing the 8th choice CB pairing it seems foolish to persist with a highwire act that requires sustained brilliance to pull off.
Now you mention it I think the article specifically mentioned Bayern as taking a similar approach fully cognisant of the risks involved.
As you say, when you have one of the game's most lethal finishers, chances created tend to get taken more often.
It makes me wonder will Klopp move Salah more central when Jota is fit, as he is our best finisher.
It would also relieve him of his tracking back duties that seems quite alien to him despite his best efforts recently.
 
We can play around with all sorts of theories about what has gone wrong but from my own eyes it seems clear that we have completely lost our intensity, the players are not running as much and we are being outworked by every team we play.

That may well be down to tiredness as the original poster surmises or complacency or confidence or an ageing squad or injuries or a combination of all these factors.

But somehow Klopp needs to figure it out so next season we can return to the pressing beasts who were never outrun by an opponent. It was the very first thing he concentrated on from his first training session and it's back to basics either with the current squad or if they are not up to the task then with fresh legs.
 
I think I read somewhere last season that Klopp is aware of the vulnerability but sees it as a risk/reward scenario where this style of play offers up more rewards than it does create risks.
Unfortunately, our capacity, or lack of it, to capitalise on the chances created by the system, the rewards, are leaving us very vulnerable to the risks we take.
I guess with a makeshift backline for much of the season we are probably offering up more chances to the opposition by the risks we continue to take.
In the current circumstances an adjustment in the system wouldn't be unwarranted or unreasonable I think

Our fullbacks pushing up leaving holes, especially Trent lately, expose the center backs, and they have to cover out wide.
With Hendo out, midfield is less able to help out with this. So there will be more openings. Risk reward, yes.
Personally, I think we should sit back more, shore up the d, and use our quick attackers to counter.
 
Our fullbacks pushing up leaving holes, especially Trent lately, expose the center backs, and they have to cover out wide.
With Hendo out, midfield is less able to help out with this. So there will be more openings. Risk reward, yes.
Personally, I think we should sit back more, shore up the d, and use our quick attackers to counter.

We ain't scoring though, one goal (pen) in over 100 shots in 2021.
 
I think we're past the point of looking for reasons. I fully understand the reasons why we are where we are. Right now most just want to see the basics being done right.

That includes:
A manager willing to change his system dependent on the players available.
A team that works hard.
A team that can pass and move between the lines.
Players playing in their chosen position.


Put CB's at CB. Put Thiago back in a 4-2-3-1 alongside the increase bite and pressing of Fabinho and Keita . Two holding midfielders can over for Trent and Roberson to get back up in attack. Get Salah as close to their goal as we can. Put Jota in his preferred position at LW. Mane is happy either side.

---------------------Alisson------------------------------
---Trent-----Phillips------Kabak---------Robertson--
-------------Thiago/Jones-----Fabinho---------------------
------Mane------Keita/Jones-------Jota---------
----------------------Salah
 
I think we're past the point of looking for reasons. I fully understand the reasons why we are where we are. Right now most just want to see the basics being done right.

That includes:
A manager willing to change his system dependent on the players available.
A team that works hard.
A team that can pass and move between the lines.
Players playing in their chosen position.


Put CB's at CB. Put Thiago back in a 4-2-3-1 alongside the increase bite and pressing of Fabinho and Keita . Two holding midfielders can over for Trent and Roberson to get back up in attack. Get Salah as close to their goal as we can. Put Jota in his preferred position at LW. Mane is happy either side.

---------------------Alisson------------------------------
---Trent-----Phillips------Kabak---------Robertson--
-------------Thiago/Jones-----Fabinho---------------------
------Mane------Keita/Jones-------Jota---------
----------------------Salah


That really isn't significantly different than what we're doing. I agree about Salah being more central, but he doesn't generally look that useful there as its not where he wants to be. We could play with wingers and a flatter 4 if we had a striker, but we don't, especially one that can hold the ball up and score. Salah can do the second part. He can only sometimes do the first. He costs us a lot of possession and causes counterattacks quite frequently, and always has. If we win the ball back as a team well and have strong individual defenders it doesn't matter a bit as he's banging them in. It's worth a go though.

The thing is, people wanting a bold change, you're either going to get a worse team on paper, or you're going to see much the same team repeatedly. Our team doesn't have a ton of flexibility. This would be the time we'd be enjoying watching some young talent, if we hadn't sold or loaned out all our best talent.
 

[article]Any hopes that Diogo Jota could singlehandedly fix Liverpool's attacking woes were firmly extinguished during Fulham's visit to Anfield on Sunday afternoon.

Another abject performance brought with it a sixth consecutive home defeat, and saw the Reds close in on a 12 th hour without an open-play goal in their own stadium. Their last came in the 12 th minute of a 1-1 draw with West Brom back on December 27, when Jürgen Klopp 's side sat top of the division and the future looked far brighter.

But it was hoped that the return of a player who had provided a goal every 104 minutes prior to sustaining a knee injury in mid-December could help alleviate the issue. Unfortunately, Jota began his Liverpool career coming into a side full of confidence, one that was able to consistently put him in on goal in those early months.

And the forwards simply aren't getting that sort of service anymore, a truth that should perhaps result in more scrutiny being directed at the midfield rather than a decimated defence. Klopp has always said that pressing is his teams' best playmaker – a fact he emphatically proved at Anfield in overseeing major improvement despite replacing Philippe Coutinho with more workmanlike midfielders.

It is easy to forget that value of that change had sustained well into the start of this season, when Liverpool were averaging 132 pressures per 90 minutes across a first 14 games that ended with them heading top courtesy of a 7-0 win at Crystal Palace.

In the 14 since, the Reds have averaged just 115 – a figure boosted by the anomaly of an incredible 227 pressures against Manchester City – and slipped down to eighth place as results have suffered.
The fact that pressures in the attacking third have dropped from 44 per game to 38 across the two separate halves of the campaign underlines how Klopp's main creator has fallen by the wayside.

And, while it would be easy to point the fingers at the forwards for this, their midfield colleagues often did just as much pressing in that part of the pitch in the past. Unfortunately for Klopp, the pressing energy of his engine room has been lost as a result of the constant defensive reshuffles that have defined the campaign.

Last season, Jordan Henderson and Fabinho averaged 21.4 and 18.5 pressures p90 respectively as a formidable unit in the centre of the park, but they have spent much of this one stationed in defence. And their replacements, Thiago Alcantara (16.8) and Curtis Jones (16), have been unable to pick up the slack despite contributing effectively in other ways at times.

Furthermore, the only constant between last year's midfield and this, Gini Wijnaldum, has seen his pressures p90 drop from 15 p90 to 11.5 this time around, no doubt as a result of ridiculous schedule he has faced. It is interesting to note that Adam Lallana (31.4), Naby Keita (23.4) and Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain (22.7) were the top three pressers in the entire squad last season.

One has since left the club, one has been constantly injured, and the other appears to have lost the faith of his manager if recent involvement is anything to go by. For that reason, Keita remains the likeliest to make a long-term impact, and has actually sustained his numbers to lead the squad as top presser this term with 25.1 p90.

Of course, the biggest issue for the Guinean has always been getting on the pitch regularly enough, and so you worry about offering him up as a long-term solution to any problem. It is a lack of rhythm after recent injury that is likely to keep him out of Wednesday team to face Leipzig but, even a result that sees Liverpool through that tie should not mask this team's biggest failing.

Keita may or may not be the answer to that, but Klopp will know that his main playmaker must be restored sooner rather than later.[/article]
 
City bench tonight is just ridiculous:

Substitutes

  • 5Stones
  • 7Sterling
  • 9Gabriel Jesus
  • 10Agüero
  • 13Steffen
  • 16Rodri
  • 21Torres
  • 22Mendy
  • 27Cancelo
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom