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We couldn't cope with long-ball Man Utd'

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redhorizon2

redhorizon2

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Sam Allardyce: 'We couldn't cope with long-ball Man Utd'
West Ham manager Sam Allardyce says Manchester United resorted to "thump it forward and see" tactics to salvage a point at Upton Park.
United trailed to Cheikhou Kouyate's sublime volley before Daley Blind levelled in the 93rd minute.
"In the end, we couldn't cope with the long balls Manchester United kept putting in the box," said Allardyce.
"It was just, thump it forward and see what they could get. In the end, it paid off for them."
United manager Louis van Gaal insisted the tactics were necessary after a lacklustre first half from his side left him "disappointed" and "frustrated".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/31262492

Van Gaal hails 'fantastic spirit'
"I cannot say that I am very happy with the point, because I'm very disappointed about the poor first half and we can do much better," the Dutchman added.
"We need the guts to play football along the floor. That we have done in the second half."
United finished the game with 10 men when Luke Shaw was sent off in the closing minutes after being booked for a second time for a foul on Stewart Downing.
"It was tactically not so smart of Shaw," said Van Gaal. "I think the referee could give him a yellow card, but he doesn't touch him."
United would have moved to within three points of second-placed Manchester City with a win.
"It is a missed chance," said Van Gaal, who host Burnley on Wednesday.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/31262492
 
Heh. Allardyce always seems to have a beef against foreign managers, but in this case, he's right to give it both barrels. He should have found a way to use the word Philosophy in there though.
 
I don't why he gets such an easy ride from the UK media. He's always dear old 'Sam' or 'Big Sam' and they always lap up his whining as if it is endearing whimsy. He's got a massive chip on his shoulder and I can only marvel at his self-control as you would have thought he'd have eaten it by now.
 
To a degree I enjoyed it ( despite the irony) because it was largely the truth. The "hump it forward incessantly" system, is now added to the three at the back, and the change goalkeepers for the penalty shootout inventions, of the tactical genius that is LVG.
 
It shouldn't have taken a comment from a manager with an inflated ego and a face like mashed potato for the media to pay attention to this though. I've seen a few articles critical of Van Gaal - Mark Ogden has written quite a few in the Telegraph - but he's getting far too easy a ride. I don't think they play football that much better than under Moyes, and what improvement there is I think is just down to the fact they've bought heavily in the summer. Tactically I don't think they're any better, or more interesting to watch.
 
This gets better...

Eurosport.comVerified account ‏@EurosportCom_EN
Louis van Gaal has done 'a Rafa' in his first season at the club. Handed these notes out at his press conference...

B9fDWwWCMAASNeF.jpg


https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blog...ing-out-stats-dossier-to-press-133442465.html
Louis van Gaal has a Rafa Benitez 'facts' moment as he gives out stats dossier to press

Louis van Gaal channelled his inner Rafa Benitez in an amazing press conference on Tuesday.
44 minutes ago World of Sport
Louis van Gaal has seen his record closely compared with that of David Moyes in recent days – and now the Mancheser United manager has invited comparison with another bete noire of Old Trafford, Rafa Benitez.

United fans are fond of recalling Benitez’s infamous press conference in 2009 when the then Liverpool manager went on a rant about “Mr Ferguson” and presented his list of “facts” regarding the fixture list, which had become a bone of contention.

Rather than recasting the debate in Liverpool’s favour, however, Benitez was instead ridiculed for his passive-aggressive approach in front of the media and reproached for falling for his rival’s mind games.

Six years on from that unforgettable episode, Van Gaal has had his own Benitez moment.

Journalists attending his weekly press conference at Carrington were surprised to be handed a dossier of stats aimed at debunking Sam Allardyce’s suggestion that United resorted to long-ball football in the weekend’s draw between the two sides.

Van Gaal told the press:

"When a colleague of mine is saying this kind of thing then, yeah, you have to see the data and you have to put the data in the right context I believe. When you have sixty per cent ball possession do you think that you can do that with long balls? Yeah, long balls, in the width, to switch the play. You have to look at the data and then you will see that we did play long balls, but long balls wide, rather than to the striker.

"I expected this question, I have made an interpretation of the data for this game and then I have to say that it is not a good interpretation from Big Sam. We are playing ball possession play and after 70 minutes we did not succeed, in spite of many chances in the second half, then I changed my playing style.

"Then, of course, with the quality of Fellaini we played more forward balls and we scored from that, so I think it was a very good decision of the manager. But, when you see overall the long ball, and what is the percentage of that, then West Ham have played 71% of the long balls to the forwards and we 49 per cent.

"I give it you (the Prozone data), you can copy it and then maybe you can go to Big Sam and he will get a good interpretation."

As well as reciting some of the key facts from his reams of paper, Van Gaal also gave handouts to the journalists present.

Van Gaal's point was that United's long passes had been across the pitch, and in fact it was West Ham who were more regularly banging the ball long to their strikers.

"I have to say that is not a good interpretation from Big Sam," he said, as he attempted to convince the public that he had outmanoeuvred his opponent with this onslaught of stats.

(the link to this report has more images of the handouts and journos' tweets - here: https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blog...ing-out-stats-dossier-to-press-133442465.html).
 
The journos in this country are a fucking disgrace.

The reason they mock facts & stats when given by managers if cos they like to pretend they don't actually matter & only their opinion does.

Whilst it's funny it's Van Gaal it's happening to, it doesn't make it any less shit.
 
FoxForceFive said:
The journos in this country are a fucking disgrace.

The reason they mock facts & stats when given by managers if cos they like to pretend they don't actually matter & only their opinion does.

Whilst it's funny it's Van Gaal it's happening to, it doesn't make it any less shit.
Click to expand...
I agree but...
It's great.
 
English is van Gaal's fourth (?) language so it's not his fault if his English isn't top notch, and the point he was trying to make is a fair one, namely that Fat Sam is talking through his hoop by having a pop at ManUre for playing long ball when W.Ham did it a lot more than they did.

That said, the fact that van Gaal's English isn't great ought to stop him trying to go into such detail about pretty much anything, at least for now. Unfortunately for ManUre he's not the kind of bloke who will take advice along those (or indeed any) lines. Shame innit.
 
Judge Jules said:
English is van Gaal's fourth (?) language so it's not his fault if his English isn't top notch, and the point he was trying to make is a fair one, namely that Fat Sam is talking through his hoop by having a pop at ManUre for playing long ball when W.Ham did it a lot more than they did.

That said, the fact that van Gaal's English isn't great ought to stop him trying to go into such detail about pretty much anything, at least for now. Unfortunately for ManUre he's not the kind of bloke who will take advice along those (or indeed any) lines. Shame innit.
Click to expand...

United do play long ball football, just because Fat Sam said it doesn't detract from that
 
FoxForceFive said:
The journos in this country are a fucking disgrace.

The reason they mock facts & stats when given by managers if cos they like to pretend they don't actually matter & only their opinion does.

Whilst it's funny it's Van Gaal it's happening to, it doesn't make it any less shit.
Click to expand...

The thing I find funny is that, whilst some United fans have suggested that he looks like he's losing the plot, others have suggested this type of story is over-hyped and the media shouldn't be highlighting this........the same United fans who ridiculed Rafa mercilessly for his "facts rant".
 
Ross: true (49% is a significant percentage of the play in itself) but he's poorly placed to do so when he gets his own team doing it over 70% of the time.
 
Go to 1:30 and listen to what he's saying.

I don't quite get Van Gaal's point about West Ham playing 71% of the long balls to the forwards, and Man Utd 49% - erm, wait... percentage of what? Is he saying that of all the long balls West Ham played, 71% went to their forwards (that's his words, watch again and listen to what he says) but United played only 49% of theirs long to their forwards? Does that breakdown even make sense?

Anyway, he's missing the point - Allardyce's swipe wasn't about who played more long balls than whom, but rather that the Mancs used a tactic/style that he's often criticized for using.

In any case, Van Gaal's stats don't really help me understand anything more. In the end, I looked up the numbers in FFT and found that long balls made up 13.9% of West Ham's pass attempts for the night, compared to Man Utd's 13.1%. So erm... okay, not sure what's the point of Van Gaal's whole argument - they played 0.8% fewer long balls (they actually tried to play 15 more long balls, just that they played a smaller percentage when all types of passes are totaled up).

On the whole, two obnoxious beings slugging at each other while we laugh. Good entertainment, and the fact that there's no point to their attempts at point scoring is great.
 
studsup said:
Go to 1:30 and listen to what he's saying.

I don't quite get Van Gaal's point about West Ham playing 71% of the long balls to the forwards, and Man Utd 49% - erm, wait... percentage of what? Is he saying that of all the long balls West Ham played, 71% went to their forwards (that's his words, watch again and listen to what he says) but United played only 49% of theirs long to their forwards? Does that breakdown even make sense?

Anyway, he's missing the point - Allardyce's swipe wasn't about who played more long balls than whom, but rather that the Mancs used a tactic/style that he's often criticized for using.

In any case, Van Gaal's stats don't really help me understand anything more. In the end, I looked up the numbers in FFT and found that long balls made up 13.9% of West Ham's pass attempts for the night, compared to Man Utd's 13.1%. So erm... okay, not sure what's the point of Van Gaal's whole argument - they played 0.8% fewer long balls (they actually tried to play 15 more long balls, just that they played a smaller percentage when all types of passes are totaled up).

On the whole, two obnoxious beings slugging at each other while we laugh. Good entertainment, and the fact that there's no point to their attempts at point scoring is great.
Click to expand...

2589B58900000578-2947574-Van_Gaal_claims_United_made_49_9_per_cent_of_long_passes_forward-a-83_1423577844597.jpg

Van Gaal claims United made 49.9 per cent of 'long passes forward' in comparison to West Ham's 71 per cent

2589B49600000578-2947574-Van_Gaal_produced_four_sheets_of_paper_during_his_press_conferen-a-82_1423577828161.jpg

This sheet suggests United had a 56 per cent success rate of their 41 'long and forward' passes during the match at West Ham. The blue arrows indicate a successful pass

2589B61000000578-2947574-West_Ham_made_just_11_of_their_32_long_and_forward_passes_during-a-81_1423577818032.jpg

West Ham made just 11 of their 32 'long and forward' passes during the match, according to boss Van Gaal

2589B56100000578-2947574-This_suggests_United_played_12_long_passes_after_76_minutes_of_t-a-84_1423577849630.jpg

This page suggests United played 12 long passes after 76 minutes of their 1-1 draw at Upton Park on Sunday. Eight of them were successful.
 
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