Is Minamino good enough?

[rurikbird]

I'm sorry to say it, but I'm starting to give up on Minamino. All this time I was confident that he would be an able deputy for Firmino, but now the settling period is over and he looks to have none of the goal threat, passing or dribbling ability or ability to hold up the ball that makes Bobby what he is. So far I only see clever movement and good work-rate from him – that's important, but not enough. There were several times last night he couldn't bring a difficult the ball down or find the right touch under pressure, not saying it's easy but you have to have this kind of magical technical ability to play up front at this level, if you're not blessed with overpowering physique or blinding speed. Even worse, for a playmaker he doesn't seem have a particular eye for a defense-splitting pass, compared to someone like Shaq, for example – most of the time his passing is nothing more than safe and functional, with only rare sparks of invention.

So if he can't replace Bobby up front and we don't really need a #10 in our system, all that is left is a back-up winger without much speed or goal threat who on merit will probably be behind Jota and 2-3 other players in that position. I still want to like him, but that's the sad reality. We didn't pay big money for him, but right now it looks like Minamino is one of the rare Klopp transfer mistakes.

 

[Farkmaster]

Good enough to replace the significance lallana had to our squad, definitely. But to push or even back up firmino, no, definitely not on all we've seen.

 

[Brizzle]

I think he would be if we play him as false 9, but when we put him out wide it doesn't work as that isn't his position. Give him time in his optimum position and I think he'll be an asset to the squad.

 

[MomoWASright]

He’s rubbish. His other positive is he is rarely injured.

Lack of pace and lack of pretty much everything.

 

[davud graham]

He still doesn't look like he's adapted to the pace of the game here yet and his lack of physicality doesn't help him either. Added to that his poor finishing and average passing makes him look pretty ordinary at the moment. Playing him at centre forward isn't working as he's neither tall or strong enough to keep defenders at bay and because of that his first touch and passing hasn't been good enough.
I hope he comes good and gets better but the signs aren't too encouraging.

 

[Pesam]

He was excellent in both games against us last season but in both games he was receiving the ball whilst facing us and progressing forward. In most games for us he is receiving the ball with his back to goal and having to shield it.....which, on all the evidence so far, is not one of his strengths.

That said, he's had a few opportunities playing deeper and still hasn't impressed. Similar to Keita, the frustrating thing is the ability is there and very obvious in very small glimpses but unless both players improve hugely we need to get rid.

 

[Gary25]

I'd be surprised if he's still a Liverpool player this time next year.

 

[rurikbird]

I think he would be if we play him as false 9, but when we put him out wide it doesn't work as that isn't his position. Give him time in his optimum position and I think he'll be an asset to the squad.

He did play as a false 9 last night and you could say it was a lot more "false" than "9"...

 

[gkmacca]

Oh god, not another player dismissed as 'having no pace'. Of course he's got pace. Didn't you see him against us last year??? Pretty swift for a snail.

Our first choice front three act a bit like a closed shop these days, which is understandable, but I think they could make it slightly easier for the likes of Jota and Minamino to fit in. Jota is getting into good positions more often despite the front three rather than with their help (especially when Bobby is doing his dazed wanderings these days), so he's using his elbows a bit to get involved. Minamino certainly needs to follow suit and force his way into a more prominent role during games, and be a bit greedier.

He also needs greater clarity from the management as to where he plays and what he does. Whatever is said before a game in terms of the formation, during games I'm still none the wiser what his role actually is, and he plays as if he's none the wiser, too. He's all over the place. Again, we know from his performances for his previous club that he can be effective and aggressive and incisive, so he's not lost that - we're just not using him as well. He's said to be an extremely adept follower of quite complicated tactical instructions, so something is going badly wrong for him to still be looking so disoriented.

 

[Squiggles]

I think that's a bit harsh, Rurik. Off the bench he has posed more goal threat in 10-15 minutes than Firmino has in 70+ minutes. He was poor yesterday, but it was a new formation, with Origi, who was also useless, and newbie signing Jota. The opponent also played better and more aggressively than most anticipated.

As a rotation option I'm completely fine with him at this stage, although there's clear room for improvement.

 

[Richey]

I don't think he's lacking in ability at all. Something isn't right though for sure. Confidence perhaps?

It's been a bit of an unfortunate time for him in many ways. He didn't really get going when he first arrived, then there was lockdown, then after the restart we really weren't playing too well as a team, and the start of this season we've been up and down again.

Add to that the fact that he hasn't really played an awful lot. It's been the odd start followed by a few substitute appearances.

It may well be that it doesn't work out for him. Hopefully it will though, and it's just worth considering these factors before writing the guy off.

 

[Fabio]

I like him. He's still adapting to a new league, having played fuck all minutes in disjointed lineups

He's impressed me more in a year than keita has in...3?

 

[Modo]

I like him. He's still adapting to a new league, having played fuck all minutes in disjointed lineups

He's impressed me more in a year than keita has in...3?

2

 

[Markeh]

It has been noticeable that he is putting himself around more this season and is giving a way fouls and picking up yellows. I'd imagine he has been instructed to do this on his path to become our Bobby backup.

Imo a lot of people probably feel unimpressed and doubtful over his future but still think it's a bit early to be sure. I'm definitely one of these, he actually reminds me a bit of maxi Rodriguez.

 

[rurikbird]

Oh god, not another player dismissed as 'having no pace'. Of course he's got pace. Didn't you see him against us last year??? Pretty swift for a snail.

He has very adequate pace for a central attacking midfielder (similar to Bobby or Shaq), but these days you need really lightning pace to play on the wing for top teams – that's what I meant. If Minamino manages to show enough qualities to make it in the centre – things like playmaking ability, goal-scoring, protecting the ball etc – then of course pace is not an issue at all. But if he doesn't (and I would argue he hasn't shown enough of these things so far), then he just becomes 3-4-5th choice winger, where his relative lack of pace (compared to the likes of Jota, Origi or Ox) would be his undoing. We don't want to go back to the early Rodgers/Coutinho days when we would sometimes play the whole game passing the ball in neat triangles in front of the opposition defense and never ever penetrate – and that's exactly what the first half of the Midtjylland game has reminded me of.

 

[keniget]

I'm still rooting for Minamino. Maybe it's because I have a soft spot for #10 types, don't know, but get the feeling there is a much better player in there than we've seen.

The problem is that it's blindingly obvious that he's unsuited for Firmino's role. If we bought him for that role and that role alone it's a mistake for sure and we may as well sell him.

It's a shame though because in the few opportunities he's had playing in a role that is more natural to him he's looked pretty decent.

We have similar issues with Origi out wide (who I've given up on quite a while ago) and Shaq seems to be a last resort for Klopp more often than not.

If we have no inclination towards tweaking the system and making use of squaddies that offer something a little bit different then we may as well just only buy like for like type replacements for our first team players.

 

[Hansern]

It feels rather unfair when you see us ping long balls up to him and he has to fight big bruts of CBs for the ball.
A bit symptomatic of not playing to his strengths. I thought he had a very good cameo against Ajax, but he was very poor last night. That was the sort of game were you have to deliver
I have soft spot for him, and really want him to succeed. Big year for him, and we need to see some major improvement during the season.
He was so frustrating last night. Couldnt control the ball to save his life, and everything was in slow motion.

 

[TheRedCrusade]

we just can not expect Minamino to be new Firmino. This is on Klopp for me. Minamino is more like a second striker or a support striker where he receives the ball around the box or in the box. His biggest problem is, he cant pick up the gaps and receive the ball in such an area. He always seems to be where he easily gets surrounded by 3 or more players and then end up loosing the ball. He will shine again once Thiago is back who can play passes with specific weight to him and plays before he gets surrounded by many players.

 

[Red Astaire]

Errrrr how many minutes has he actually played? Also how many minutes has he actually played in his preferred position? It’s ridiculous to form a judgement on him just yet. He, young, clearly talented and adapting to a new league in very fucking weird circumstances. He’ll be fine.

 

[gkmacca]

He has very adequate pace for a central attacking midfielder (similar to Bobby or Shaq), but these days you need really lightning pace to play on the wing for top teams – that's what I meant.

I don't want to sound too academic-y, but this phrase 'he lacks pace/has no pace' really has to stop. If he has no pace he's stationary. One can say most players lack the exceptional or, as you now put it, 'lightning pace' of Salah and Mane. Fine. But then you need fine gradations. Otherwise it's just noise. There are hardly any players in the top flight these days who aren't actually, to varying degrees, fast. Every example needs a comparison otherwise it's just pointless.

 

[binomial]

Why does he keep being played as the false 9? He needs to be playing off a main striker.

 

[tombrown]

I think Klopp has different plans for him rather than just a Firmino replacement/understudy. Those plans are based on a change of formation when the current front 3 are inevitably broken up. As such we may only see glimpses of Minamino over the next season or two, but he will blossom over time alongside Jota, Elliott and Mbappe

 

[SummerOnions]

One thing I notice is that one of his best games I remember came alongside the front 3, and for Jota it's the same. Give Minamino a game in a kind of 4-2-3-1 and he has more to offer.

Also, unless I remember wrong, Firmino also took quite some time to settle in

 

[i_rushie]

He takes up some really intelligent positions in the channels between the centre and fullbacks, and you can't help but root for him, and start wishing that his teammates would trust him more.

But then you have games like this, where he is simply unable to control the ball let alone retain possession under pressure because he's so lightweight. No wonder he's being ignored on the pitch.

 

[RedStar]

Errrrr how many minutes has he actually played? Also how many minutes has he actually played in his preferred position? It’s ridiculous to form a judgement on him just yet. He, young, clearly talented and adapting to a new league in very fucking weird circumstances. He’ll be fine.

Hes 26 in January, hes hardly a young player so I dont expect him to suddenly come on leaps and bounds. Hes another Lallana, a smart clever player who takes up positions between the lines and finds space to bring other people into play. He is also similarly lightweight and doesnt seem to fit into any specific role in the team.

He will get chances simply because we need to rotate more this season to preserve the first XI but I dont see him forcing his way into the starting line up.

 

[RedStar]

The other thing about him thats stuck in my head is how he stood to one side and didnt really participate in the title celebrations last year. He seemed very isolated, perhaps he doesnt speak much English.

 

[darkstarexodus]

He's shown very little for us so far of the fiery sparkplug who battered us in the group stage last year. I'm losing faith fast.

 

[ibromurph]

Has Minamino ever played in the 10 role, whilst the front 3 were on the pitch?

Or in the 9 role, with Salah and Mane flanking him?

Or in the 4-3-3 midfield 8?

I don't think so. Love Jurgen, but I don't think he's given Minamino the best chance to succeed at Liverpool.

The sort of spaces Minamino picks up between the lines also requires the sort of progressive vision and risk tasking, that i've only seen from Thiago, in his brief spell at Liverpool, where he wraps balls into feet at pace, and between players.

 

[mwake]

I remember Firminos first year (and he played far more than Minamino), first year or so of Firmino and many were quick to label him a flop. Minamino has played far less games than Firmono did so I think I'm only going to get worried if he continues struggling if he plays a similar amount of games. If anything its on Klopp to try and haul of Firmino earlier especially when he is having a stinker.

 

[King Binny]

23 appearances of which 15 were as a substitute. Average of 37 mins per appearance. He was usually surrounded by other squad players when he's in the starting XI. Still managed 3 goals and 1 assists.

https://www.liverpool.com/liverpool-fc-news/features/liverpool-takumi-minamino-goals-news-19188002

[article]there were elements of Minamino’s performance against Midtjylland that may be a cause for concern. He was handed the task of leading the line, which is surprising given striker Divock Origi was on the pitch and playing more so on the left wing.

Minamino’s best position is, no question, in the No.10 role behind the main striker, but the problem is that this system hasn’t be utilised that often by Jürgen Klopp. Most times, the boss opts to have Minamino on the wing or in the centre forward role usually operated by Firmino. Given his lack of ability to hold the ball up and retain possession, this often makes it a struggle.

It could be possible that Minamino would thrive more if he was surrounded by the regular starters in the team. This season, at least, when he’s played it’s often been with the fringe members of the squad.

Looking at his expected goals, his last two seasons at Red Bull Salzburg saw him average 1.8 per game (via FBref ). This season, though, that’s down by a half at just 0.9. Granted, this is a harsh way of judging his performances, given it’s a new system and he isn’t being utilised the same as he was in Austria.

A prime example of this is Gini Wijnaldum, who was a goalscoring playmaker at Newcastle yet got transformed into a deep-lying midfielder after moving to Anfield. It all depends on where Klopp sees the individual player’s strengths being utilised best, the manager is a big fan of Minamino and so will always find a way of getting him into the team.

What is interesting is looking at how often Minamino wins the ball back for his team, either through an interception or a good tackle. At Salzburg, he managed 49 interceptions in six seasons, yet has managed just one during his time at Liverpool. And when it comes to tackles, the 24-year-old managed 86 with the Austrian Bundesliga club, but only five since arriving at Anfield.

Given that Klopp likes to employ a high-pressing system with his attacking players leading the charge and winning the ball high up the pitch, Minamino’s rather worrying numbers since his arrival should make the boss ponder whether the player can fully operate in the team. That being said, it is unfair to write Minamino off as a Liverpool player at this early stage.

Some take longer than others to adapt to their new surroundings, while others may hit the ground running from the start. This Liverpool team is arguably the toughest side to get into the Europe, and to do so takes a huge amount of quality and character, as well as an ounce of luck.

Minamino is very much part of Liverpool’s present and is set to be a key player for the future. The problem that success brings is a lack of patience from some critics, but Klopp has shown before that he gives players time to adapt and adjust to his methods and that will be no different for Minamino. It will be up to him to rise to the occasion, and there is nothing to suggest that he’ll fail.[/article]