This thread started poorly and has gotten worse.
Klopp
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Has it? There's quite a few well thought out, healthily debated posts. If it's got steadily worse, offer something worthwhile, other than a typical one line, snide remark.
It'd be nice to feel as if the defence was improving. I'm not privvy to the work that goes on during training, but it's difficult to believe anything is happening when we're seeing no real difference on the pitch. And yeah, the midfield aren't very good at defending either.
Coutinho was coming on as they scored.
Didi Hamman nailed it last night on RTE. You can't build a team from the front. You have to build it from the back. And when I say "from the back" I mean starting with your fucking goalkeeper. In fairness, while I think the "Ming" problem hasn't been properly addressed, I do think he has been a lot more reliable over the past 12 months, and I don't understand why Karius was playing last night. This mentality of using 1 goalkeeper for domestic games and another for European games is out the fucking window. You have a number 1 and a number 2. If it's a competitive game, you play your number 1 keeper at all times, assuming he's fit. However, we have bigger problems than Ming.
The fact that he hasn't improved what can only be described as a circus act in our defence is reason enough for Klopp's position to be questioned. I would like to know why the fuck is Robertson not getting his place? Ok, Moreno played well for the most part last night, but he also played a part in contributing to both of their goals. We all can see it. Why can't Klopp see it?
Secondly missing out on VVD was criminal. As usual, like everything else at Liverpool FC, we had no plan B and now we are lumbered that that useless cunt Lovren, who looks like he's still going to be first choice this season. But is that Klopp's fault that we fucked up the VVD move? I'm not convinced he's entirely to blame.
I'd be reluctant to get rid of Klopp. He's worth hanging on to for another while. I'd be hopeful that he will sort the defence out.
The fact that he hasn't improved what can only be described as a circus act in our defence is reason enough for Klopp's position to be questioned. I would like to know why the fuck is Robertson not getting his place? Ok, Moreno played well for the most part last night, but he also played a part in contributing to both of their goals. We all can see it. Why can't Klopp see it?
Secondly missing out on VVD was criminal. As usual, like everything else at Liverpool FC, we had no plan B and now we are lumbered that that useless cunt Lovren, who looks like he's still going to be first choice this season. But is that Klopp's fault that we fucked up the VVD move? I'm not convinced he's entirely to blame.
I'd be reluctant to get rid of Klopp. He's worth hanging on to for another while. I'd be hopeful that he will sort the defence out.
I'm talking about actions rather than words. He's done nothing to address an issue that's clear as day to all of us.
Priority one: Make yourself hard to beat.
Priority two: Bring in a top keeper, CB and DM to achieve this.
Priority three: Get a world-beating forward line.
It's fucking obvious.
Priority two: Bring in a top keeper, CB and DM to achieve this.
Priority three: Get a world-beating forward line.
It's fucking obvious.
The things I'm properly baffled by (CB aside as I don't believe simply getting a better class of CB is the answer) is DM.
Klopp played with a DM at Dortmund, Bender & Kohl were credited with allowing the rest of the side to push up so freely, yet he hasn't even remotely tried to replicate that here.
Now Keita is obviously going to change things, but he seems to attack just as much as get stuck in & that's great, but behind that player, we need someone whose first job is to be in that defensive position & provide cover.
Perhaps I'm being naive, but I'd like to think Klopp is aware of this, & does have plans to address it, but for whatever reason, can't do so yet.
The alternative is that he simply believes a quality CB will solve all our problems & we can succeed by simply outscoring everyone & blowing them away with fast flowing football & not have to protect the back line at all apart from the pressing game. I can't & don't wont to believe that.
Klopp played with a DM at Dortmund, Bender & Kohl were credited with allowing the rest of the side to push up so freely, yet he hasn't even remotely tried to replicate that here.
Now Keita is obviously going to change things, but he seems to attack just as much as get stuck in & that's great, but behind that player, we need someone whose first job is to be in that defensive position & provide cover.
Perhaps I'm being naive, but I'd like to think Klopp is aware of this, & does have plans to address it, but for whatever reason, can't do so yet.
The alternative is that he simply believes a quality CB will solve all our problems & we can succeed by simply outscoring everyone & blowing them away with fast flowing football & not have to protect the back line at all apart from the pressing game. I can't & don't wont to believe that.
Dude, I thought that was SOP in Greece?
Amazing really that so few managers achieve it.
Did it work out?
Can anyone name a team that has won stuff in the past 20 years without a DM? Genuinely intrigued but too lazy to look into it beyond the obvious examples.
I usually don't listen to driving advice from a Greek (even if they're only half Greek), although I'll give the Greeks this, they can park their cars in the smallest of spots.
Believe it or not, they don't usually want to crash.
Listening to some fans pondering how much longer to tolerate Klopp is a bit like hearing a broke Bernie Ecclestone wondering how much longer he'll put up with his young model girlfriend. Utterly deluded. A thread on the defence would at least provide a proper focus, boring though it would be (a TalkSport phone-in without the Selco ads), but this perspective is just crazy. The more pertinent question is how long Klopp puts up with Liverpool before he's tempted to move to a club where the owners have bigger pockets and actually pay attention to the club on more than an occasional basis, the executives conduct their transfer and contract business in a prompt, private and competent manner, and the expectations aren't so distorted by a misplaced sense of entitlement, a horribly cloying sense of nostalgia and a volatile mixture of hope and despair. If Klopp doesn't click, then this club cracks. No sane manager with any kind of track record will want to go anywhere near the place unless some billionaires take it over.
That's quite a specific summary of a scenario spanning 15 years for someone who wasn't here.
And it seems rather unlikely that the site is full of people who moaned and insulted Kenny, Benitez and now Klopp, and yet reserved nothing but unbridled admiration for Brendan Rodgers.
Perhaps you're talking out of your arse? Yes, that's probably it.
Here we go, another who can't handle a bit of criticism towards the manager and automatically surmises that it means we all want Klopp out.
We can talk his deficiencies you know, it's what a forum is for. No one (I doubt very much) actually wants him out, I mean, among a fairly respectable number of well considered posts, how many people have said he should go?
We've got a few issues that don't go away and people have a right to talk about it, just like the same people talk about how frightening good we can be when we're mopping the floor with teams.
You'd like to think that shipping 7 goals in the last few days would have them working on that side of things on the training ground, but I get the feeling they're on penalty practice, as Klopp will have identified that weakness from last night.
I'm not anti Klopp at all, I think he's ace, but he's clearly fucking deranged
I'm not anti Klopp at all, I think he's ace, but he's clearly fucking deranged
I'm a big Klopp fan overall, but there are some infuriating aspects to him.
He takes too long to change the game using substitutions.
His game management can be naive from time to time, which has cost us points (last night being a good example).
The failure to strengthen and primarily to really address our defensive issues is bonkers.
Taking all of last season to find a plan B seemed a bit stubborn. The diamond we played at the end of last season looked like a genuine plan B option, which Sturridge looked good in. Why did it take so long to figure out and implement?
His overall stubborness on numerous issues.
All of this being said I don't believe that there are better options available, and with some changes to be made/players to be bought the defence can improve. We are genuinely one of the most exciting attacking sides in the league to watch on our day,. He has brought in Mane who is currently our best player, and Salah who is looking to be potentially brilliant if he improves his finishing/end product. He has got a talent for bringing the best out of players like Lallana and Can. He's made me personally excited to watch us every week, I'm sure he has done the same with others.
He isn't perfect but I definitely wouldn't change him any time soon.
He takes too long to change the game using substitutions.
His game management can be naive from time to time, which has cost us points (last night being a good example).
The failure to strengthen and primarily to really address our defensive issues is bonkers.
Taking all of last season to find a plan B seemed a bit stubborn. The diamond we played at the end of last season looked like a genuine plan B option, which Sturridge looked good in. Why did it take so long to figure out and implement?
His overall stubborness on numerous issues.
All of this being said I don't believe that there are better options available, and with some changes to be made/players to be bought the defence can improve. We are genuinely one of the most exciting attacking sides in the league to watch on our day,. He has brought in Mane who is currently our best player, and Salah who is looking to be potentially brilliant if he improves his finishing/end product. He has got a talent for bringing the best out of players like Lallana and Can. He's made me personally excited to watch us every week, I'm sure he has done the same with others.
He isn't perfect but I definitely wouldn't change him any time soon.
Does this thread need a poll?
Is Klopp good enough or not?
Because I'm pretty certain that nobody actually wants to see him go, and I can't think of a viable, better alternative anyway.
Is Klopp good enough or not?
Because I'm pretty certain that nobody actually wants to see him go, and I can't think of a viable, better alternative anyway.
Ancelotti will probably be available next year.
I just find Klopp very frustrating. Its blatantly obvious where our flaws are and yet Klopp failed to address them in the summer and we are paying the price for it now. Yes we are great going forward, but if you can't stop them going in at the other end then we will continue to struggle against a lot of teams this season. Thankfully the Maribor game ended in a draw as well which still leaves us in a strong position to top the group.
I love the goofy cackling bastard. It'll all come good in January don't worry. 
Problem is fans are fickle. We just lost Lallana and only just got Coutinho back. Those two players were Klopps best players last year when things were going right. Take out Barcelona's two best players and their overall equality would suffer too.
Season isn't over...two wins, two draws and one loss in a freak game and people are questioning him...as I said we are too fickle. Look at Pep Guardiola, all the money in the world and still there isn't a guarantee that city will win the league. Got to see the long term goals. The defence is rubbish I agree and I think Klopp secretly thinks that too otherwise we wouldn't have been chasing VVD.
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Season isn't over...two wins, two draws and one loss in a freak game and people are questioning him...as I said we are too fickle. Look at Pep Guardiola, all the money in the world and still there isn't a guarantee that city will win the league. Got to see the long term goals. The defence is rubbish I agree and I think Klopp secretly thinks that too otherwise we wouldn't have been chasing VVD.
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Mane was arguably our best player last year.
And there's no doubt he wanted to buy VVD, but spending an entire fruitless summer chasing him - apart from when we dropped our interest - and NOT SIGNING ANYONE AT ALL, is all on him.
Playing Ragnar Klavan, ever, is all on him.
Giving Lovren a 5 year contract at £100,000 a week, is all on him.
Alternating between two flawed goalkeepers, is all on him.
Not addressing our well-known, widely-reported and FUCKING OBVIOUS inability to defend, is all on him.
This isn't being fickle at all. Most of us were saying this all last season. This has nothing to do with the loss of lallana or coutinho. Its about the fact that we can't defend and that Klopp has done nothing to address such a glaring problem.
It isn't being fickle to recognise that defensively we are very poor and that as manager Klopp has to be responsible ultimately. Everyone is crediting him with our attack being quite potent so why should he get plaudits for that but escape criticism over the defence?
Out of our current crop of defenders and Goalies he signed Matip, Klavan,Karius and Robertson. He introduced TAA, re signed Lovren and re introduced Gomez and Moreno after a year in the wilderness. He also kept faith with Mignolet and Clyne.
Whether you like it or not he's showed some level of faith in all of our defenders and we're still shit at the back so it's either down to the way we play which is down to him or the players he trusts which is again down to him. He needs to improve the defence because so far his input has been far from impressive on this front.
Personally I think it's as much the system as the players and neither are suitable for a competent defence, when you have midfielders whose natural instinct is to attack and none of them are particularly quick then your defence will be under more scrutiny and ours fails more often than not.
Out of our current crop of defenders and Goalies he signed Matip, Klavan,Karius and Robertson. He introduced TAA, re signed Lovren and re introduced Gomez and Moreno after a year in the wilderness. He also kept faith with Mignolet and Clyne.
Whether you like it or not he's showed some level of faith in all of our defenders and we're still shit at the back so it's either down to the way we play which is down to him or the players he trusts which is again down to him. He needs to improve the defence because so far his input has been far from impressive on this front.
Personally I think it's as much the system as the players and neither are suitable for a competent defence, when you have midfielders whose natural instinct is to attack and none of them are particularly quick then your defence will be under more scrutiny and ours fails more often than not.
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