Let's talk about Ox..

[Modo]

Seems like a recurring theme these past few seasons. Is he staying, is he going?
Like I've said before, I like Ox, he seems like a good lad, team player.

He started against Norwich and I don't think anyone was surprised by his performance.
Again, he looked dejected leaving the pitch, knowing he had performed badly.
Klopp didn't have to start Ox. Elliott, Milner, Jones, Minamino, Thiago and Fabs were available.

The question is, why does Klopp persist in giving him chances?
I've heard on many occasions from Klopp and other players that Ox is one of the best players in training, but for some reason it just doesn't work for him in games.
Is it a confidence thing?

 

[Fabio]

His best games recently have been when he's been on the wing. I'd play him wide and never play him cm again.

Let his contract run down and send him on his way.

 

[JohnnyRocket]

I can't say I've ever been that impressed with him in his time here. Even when he was having that decent patch a couple of years ago. Cant see the point of him really.

He's a winger in a mid table team. Not a central midfielder for a top team.

 

[dee]

He re-signed until summer 2024 allegedly. So quite a bit of running down to do!

[Edit: Transfermarkt have it to summer 2023]

 

[Judge Jules]

I slightly disagree with some of the above in that IMO his best displays were when he played centrally, but I do agree that - for a variety of reasons, not all of which are down to him - it's time to move him on.

 

[keniget]

To be honest, I don't really care. He had a very short decent spell but otherwise has either been injured or dreadful and I want him gone.

He get games because I reckon Klopp likes him but mostly because we're light in midfield.

He is the sort of player that needs to be playing week in, week out to build up rythym and confidence and he's not going to get that here. He needs to drop down a levelto a club where the manager is a big fan and pray to god he can stay fit.

 

[Modo]

His best games recently have been when he's been on the wing. I'd play him wide and never play him cm again.

Let his contract run down and send him on his way.

Exactly, there's a reason Wenger persisted in playing him on the wing.

We spent too much on him to let his contract run out and he's English too. Yeah, we did that with Lallana but he was older.

 

[Red Bird]

I slightly disagree with some of the above in that IMO his best displays were when he played centrally, but I do agree that - for a variety of reasons, not all of which are down to him - it's time to move him on.

The problem with playing centrally is that you have to be good at looking after the ball, you can’t be sloppily give the ball away as he does.

 

[SummerOnions]

He would be great for West Ham I would say. challenging for top 4 is about right for him

 

[Judge Jules]

The problem with playing centrally is that you have to be good at looking after the ball, you can’t be sloppily give the ball away as he does.

Agree and that's why I would be in favour of selling him, as I think he's had long enough to show he can reach the right standard consistently and hasn't managed it. My point was a more limited one, namely that when he has put in a good display for us it's been down the centre. Out wide he's always been totally anonymous.

 

[Fabio]

Exactly, there's a reason Wenger persisted in playing him on the wing.

We spent too much on him to let his contract run out and he's English too. Yeah, we did that with Lallana but he was older.

Value means nothing though. We couldn't command a fee where we could get in a player of similar calibre whos English. I think we'll just let him go when it's done. Maybe offer a year extension on reduced terms.

 

[Modo]

Value means nothing though. We couldn't command a fee where we could get in a player of similar calibre whos English. I think we'll just let him go when it's done. Maybe offer a year extension on reduced terms.

Do we need an English player to replace him though?
Isn't Harvey his replacement?
We also might sign Carvalho and he's English.
Gordon will be eligible for the CL squad next season I think.

 

[Woland]

He stinks the whole place up like stale milk and I can't wait to see the back of him.

 

[Fabio]

Do we need an English player to replace him though?
Isn't Harvey his replacement?
We also might sign Carvalho and he's English.
Gordon will be eligible for the CL squad next season I think.

We might not need to, but it depends on our other transfers. Milner will be going, I'm not convinced on Jones long term yet so we may cash in. Add in Gomez and possibly Williams we might lose a few home grown players.

 

[Modo]

We might not need to, but it depends on our other transfers. Milner will be going, I'm not convinced on Jones long term yet so we may cash in. Add in Gomez and possibly Williams we might lose a few home grown players.

Apparently Milner is getting a new one year deal with a reduced salary so.
Sepp might be part of the first team next season.
Add Carvalho, Gordon and possibly Bradley and Morton.
I think we're good.

 

[Squiggles]

I like Chamberlain and was happy when he signed, but unfortunately he has not mastered either the CAM or the RWF role. Yes there's been injuries, but he's had more than enough time to adapt.. He should have just eased himself back into the team, focused on the basics. Instead, he's s trying too hard to impress whilst failing to fit into the general team dynamic and attacking patterns.

Has he got any any better since his Arsenal days? If you can't progress under Klopp then it's likely you're just not a top level player.

He needs to leave. Wolves, Palace and Watford would all be reasonable fits for him as they're pretty hot on the counter and he is pretty decent at ball progression and driving forward.

 

[rubans]

He’s a likeable guy and is capable of scoring the odd goal. However, this year the most frustrating aspect of his game is his inability to make the final pass in the last third. Everytime, he finds him self in the last third with the ball, he always seems to make the worst possible choice and loses the ball. I just don’t see that side of his game improving so would make sense for him to move on and play more regularly.

 

[Red Bird]

We might not need to, but it depends on our other transfers. Milner will be going, I'm not convinced on Jones long term yet so we may cash in. Add in Gomez and possibly Williams we might lose a few home grown players.

The thing with Jones is that he's exactly the type that of player for whom we have paid good money in the past-- Lallana, Allen, Oxlade Chamberlain etc. I'd keep.

 

[Modo]

The thing with Jones is that he's exactly the type that of player for whom we have paid good money in the past-- Lallana, Allen, Oxlade Chamberlain etc. I'd keep.

Is he though? The boy needs to be loaned out and play regular football. He's not good enough at the moment.
I mean being shown up by a younger kid who was out for 4 months isn't exactly great.

 

[mark1975]

Seems like a recurring theme these past few seasons. Is he staying, is he going?
Like I've said before, I like Ox, he seems like a good lad, team player.

He started against Norwich and I don't think anyone was surprised by his performance.
Again, he looked dejected leaving the pitch, knowing he had performed badly.
Klopp didn't have to start Ox. Elliott, Milner, Jones, Minamino, Thiago and Fabs were available.

The question is, why does Klopp persist in giving him chances?
I've heard on many occasions from Klopp and other players that Ox is one of the best players in training, but for some reason it just doesn't work for him in games.
Is it a confidence thing?

I think he's just tried to play him into form, but the longer it goes on, something's got to give. He's a good player, or he was, I don't know whether it's now natural decline, injuries taking their toll, or confidence at an all time low, but he's at that stage where he probably just needs a fresh challenge. When he got that bad injury at his best he could probably walk into the team. He's now come back to a squad of players that are well beyond that, and he's not guaranteed of anything and he knows he's only a bit part player. Some players thrive on that kind of pressure, he's had more setbacks and lows than most, so you can sort of see why it's all effecting his performances.

 

[Markeh]

At full time in the Norwich match the camera went to Klopp and you could see Ox sitting on the bench staring into space like someone just proved to him that we live in the matrix.

He knows it’s not going well. I don’t like bitching about him too much because i think he’s self aware and trying to make it happen. Hard work isn’t the problem and he has kept himself fit for a period, i think we could potentially… eventually play him into some form. But competition is fierce, time is short and he is 28, it’s probably easier to move him on and concentrate on the next guy.

sorry Ox, you seem like the decent sort

 

[Modo]

At full time in the Norwich match the camera went to Klopp and you could see Ox sitting on the bench staring into space like someone just proved to him that we live in the matrix.

He knows it’s not going well. I don’t like bitching about him too much because i think he’s self aware and trying to make it happen. Hard work isn’t the problem and he has kept himself fit for a period, i think we could potentially… eventually play him into some form. But competition is fierce, time is short and he is 28, it’s probably easier to move him on and concentrate on the next guy.

sorry Ox, you seem like the decent sort

I noticed the same thing. Like I've mentioned elsewhere and as others have stated. He needs to play regularly and those opportunities are gone at LFC. He and Gomez are pretty much in the same predicament. If any of them want to be in contention for England they have to find another club.

 

[tomasjj]

propose a swap deal with arsenal

ox for saka and 10 mill

 

[Hyena]

Yup. He needs to move. You can see it in his eyes. He no longer believes he belongs with the group.

 

[peekay]

Is he though? The boy needs to be loaned out and play regular football. He's not good enough at the moment.
I mean being shown up by a younger kid who was out for 4 months isn't exactly great.

Quite a decent percentage of our legends and very good players when they were 21 would have been shown up by an 18 year old Harvey Elliott. Elliott is a very impressive 18 year old. He is not in the Gerrard, Owen, Fowler bracket whose talent screamed "play me every game" when they were 18, but definitely in the tier below that.

But youngsters develop very nonlinearly. Just because Elliot at 18 looks a couple of tiers above Henderson at 20, doesnt guarantee Elliott at 28 will be as important as Henderson at 28.

Jones is a tier or two below Elliott and that is not a bad place to be. Plenty of very good to great PL players were in the Jones's tier or below that when they were 18-20.

Jones has shown in the past that he belongs in a PL midfield. He is now being asked to curb his natural instinct and play a different game. It will take time for a youngster to learn how to do that. It took the great Thiago more than a season to become an integral part of this midfield. There are a lot of positive aspects to Jones's game. He has the confidence. He can dribble and take the ball into dangerous areas. The sort of thing we bought Keita for before his untimely death (RIP). He has good shot taking ability - capable of the spectacular. Worst case, he develops into a MOTD player who does something spectacular every few weeks. It is worth persisting with him as there will be plenty of clubs willing to pay top money for a English MOTD player.

I think the biggest problem with Jones is that his whole demeanor is kind of unlikable. I suspect that is why criticism of him is a bit on the harsher side. He scored a brilliant winner against Everton which made T-Rex hands look like a chump in a FA cup knockout game. And we all know it is not a one off and he is capable of more such goals. So definitely worth persisting with him. At the very least, he will rise to a Ox or Lallana level talent.

 

[Richey]

I don’t think he is a bad player at all. I think he could do a very decent job in the Premier League but I also think his time is up with Liverpool.

He should be among the players that we should be looking to sell in the summer

 

[MomoWASright]

propose a swap deal with arsenal

ox for saka and 10 mill

I would be all over this. It’s a shame arsenal won’t.

 

[mark1975]

Quite a decent percentage of our legends and very good players when they were 21 would have been shown up by an 18 year old Harvey Elliott. Elliott is a very impressive 18 year old. He is not in the Gerrard, Owen, Fowler bracket whose talent screamed "play me every game" when they were 18, but definitely in the tier below that.

But youngsters develop very nonlinearly. Just because Elliot at 18 looks a couple of tiers above Henderson at 20, doesnt guarantee Elliott at 28 will be as important as Henderson at 28.

Jones is a tier or two below Elliott and that is not a bad place to be. Plenty of very good to great PL players were in the Jones's tier or below that when they were 18-20.

Jones has shown in the past that he belongs in a PL midfield. He is now being asked to curb his natural instinct and play a different game. It will take time for a youngster to learn how to do that. It took the great Thiago more than a season to become an integral part of this midfield. There are a lot of positive aspects to Jones's game. He has the confidence. He can dribble and take the ball into dangerous areas. The sort of thing we bought Keita for before his untimely death (RIP). He has good shot taking ability - capable of the spectacular. Worst case, he develops into a MOTD player who does something spectacular every few weeks. It is worth persisting with him as there will be plenty of clubs willing to pay top money for a English MOTD player.

I think the biggest problem with Jones is that his whole demeanor is kind of unlikable. I suspect that is why criticism of him is a bit on the harsher side. He scored a brilliant winner against Everton which made T-Rex hands look like a chump in a FA cup knockout game. And we all know it is not a one off and he is capable of more such goals. So definitely worth persisting with him. At the very least, he will rise to a Ox or Lallana level talent.

Top post this.

 

[Modo]

Quite a decent percentage of our legends and very good players when they were 21 would have been shown up by an 18 year old Harvey Elliott. Elliott is a very impressive 18 year old. He is not in the Gerrard, Owen, Fowler bracket whose talent screamed "play me every game" when they were 18, but definitely in the tier below that.

But youngsters develop very nonlinearly. Just because Elliot at 18 looks a couple of tiers above Henderson at 20, doesnt guarantee Elliott at 28 will be as important as Henderson at 28.

Jones is a tier or two below Elliott and that is not a bad place to be. Plenty of very good to great PL players were in the Jones's tier or below that when they were 18-20.

Jones has shown in the past that he belongs in a PL midfield. He is now being asked to curb his natural instinct and play a different game. It will take time for a youngster to learn how to do that. It took the great Thiago more than a season to become an integral part of this midfield. There are a lot of positive aspects to Jones's game. He has the confidence. He can dribble and take the ball into dangerous areas. The sort of thing we bought Keita for before his untimely death (RIP). He has good shot taking ability - capable of the spectacular. Worst case, he develops into a MOTD player who does something spectacular every few weeks. It is worth persisting with him as there will be plenty of clubs willing to pay top money for a English MOTD player.

I think the biggest problem with Jones is that his whole demeanor is kind of unlikable. I suspect that is why criticism of him is a bit on the harsher side. He scored a brilliant winner against Everton which made T-Rex hands look like a chump in a FA cup knockout game. And we all know it is not a one off and he is capable of more such goals. So definitely worth persisting with him. At the very least, he will rise to a Ox or Lallana level talent.

I agree with much of what you wrote but the big difference here is that Jones is fighting for a spot in a top club. The likes of Lallana, Ox and even Henderson played regular football at Jones age.
And where does he actually fit in?
He's a winger turned midfielder. He takes too many touches and is far too slow to play on the wing.

Not sure about the Thiago comparison either, I mean there were signs that Thiago was world class last season even though he wasn't consistent. The lack of Fabs in midfield also didn't help.

 

[Delinquent]

To be honest, I don't really care. He had a very short decent spell but otherwise has either been injured or dreadful and I want him gone.

He get games because I reckon Klopp likes him but mostly because we're light in midfield.

He is the sort of player that needs to be playing week in, week out to build up rythym and confidence and he's not going to get that here. He needs to drop down a levelto a club where the manager is a big fan and pray to god he can stay fit.

Yeah, it takes a run of five or six games to get a decent performance out of him, and in the rest he's a liability. He's never been good enough and never will.