Let's talk about Ox..

[mom]

Meh

 

[Frogfish]

Quite a decent percentage of our legends and very good players when they were 21 would have been shown up by an 18 year old Harvey Elliott. Elliott is a very impressive 18 year old. He is not in the Gerrard, Owen, Fowler bracket whose talent screamed "play me every game" when they were 18, but definitely in the tier below that.

But youngsters develop very nonlinearly. Just because Elliot at 18 looks a couple of tiers above Henderson at 20, doesnt guarantee Elliott at 28 will be as important as Henderson at 28.

Jones is a tier or two below Elliott and that is not a bad place to be. Plenty of very good to great PL players were in the Jones's tier or below that when they were 18-20.

Jones has shown in the past that he belongs in a PL midfield. He is now being asked to curb his natural instinct and play a different game. It will take time for a youngster to learn how to do that. It took the great Thiago more than a season to become an integral part of this midfield. There are a lot of positive aspects to Jones's game. He has the confidence. He can dribble and take the ball into dangerous areas. The sort of thing we bought Keita for before his untimely death (RIP). He has good shot taking ability - capable of the spectacular. Worst case, he develops into a MOTD player who does something spectacular every few weeks. It is worth persisting with him as there will be plenty of clubs willing to pay top money for a English MOTD player.

I think the biggest problem with Jones is that his whole demeanor is kind of unlikable. I suspect that is why criticism of him is a bit on the harsher side. He scored a brilliant winner against Everton which made T-Rex hands look like a chump in a FA cup knockout game. And we all know it is not a one off and he is capable of more such goals. So definitely worth persisting with him. At the very least, he will rise to a Ox or Lallana level talent.

At this moment I'd rather have Jones on the pitch rather than Ox. Ox. puts in the hard work but he just lacks any sort of consistency and that hurts us. Jones looks after the ball a lot better and has a far higher ceiling IMO.

 

[Holle]

Firmino and Ox are both beyond finished.

We need to replace them.

 

[Fabio]

Firmino and Ox are both beyond finished.

We need to replace them.

I still think bobby has his place in the squad. His passing ability has just fallen off a cliff

 

[Modo]

Ox needs to leave. He needs to play consistently. You see that he's missing some match sharpness. Something he isn't going to get at LFC the way it's going.
Said it before, he needs to leave for the sake of his own career.

 

[bluebell]

If we get Fabio C, Ox is gone.

 

[Modo]

If we get Fabio C, Ox is gone.

Oh you better believe it.

 

[Brizzle]

He's not doing a very good job of putting himself in the shop window.

 

[Woland]

He's complete shit. I don't think Firmino (still comes on and scores goals) or Jones (talented as fuck but has an attitude problem) are part of this debate. Ox should never figure in an LFC fixture again. He's rubbish.

 

[keniget]

The sad thing for all concerned is that he's better than he's showing right now and I'm saying that as someone who's never been a fan.

He just needs games, which he's never going to get here because he's nowhere near good enough.

 

[Richey]

He's complete shit. I don't think Firmino (still comes on and scores goals) or Jones (talented as fuck but has an attitude problem) are part of this debate. Ox should never figure in an LFC fixture again. He's rubbish.

Do you think that is the problem with Jones? I like him and want to see him do well but he certainly seems to have stalled a bit.

Firmino still looks class to me,

I don't really see what Ox brings to the team at all now, sadly, and I don't think we would miss him. Time for him to move on.

 

[bluebell]

He's not doing a very good job of putting himself in the shop window.

End of June, one year left. Someone will offer £10-£20m.
The paradox of Ox asking for more game time is he will get injured.
I'd cash in on Gomez too. We need a RB, Jones isn't good enough for RB and he is too valuable to be 4th choice CB. I'd keep Philips, he is made of steel.
Djed Spence and Ward-prowse as replacements

 

[Alan Hardaker]

What really happened with The Ox was very early it was claimed he had fantastic potential. Comes from a footie family. His dad and uncle were pro's as is his brother. Ox made his debut for Southampton aged just 16. Certainly was a footballer in the making but what wasn't really noticed is that he has a very average first touch and for an attacker his balance isn't top quality. Very often you would see this type of player plying his trade in the 60's- 70's and on. But the pace of the game, the technicality, the interplay etc has moved on from that period.

It was more obvious at Arsenal and that's why he became a bit part player. Same here. He is at best a very decent championship player. He can flatter to deceive and does put in the odd decent game but he lacks the quality to sustain it.

Limited player. Value about £15m or so.

 

[Woland]

Do you think that is the problem with Jones? I like him and want to see him do well but he certainly seems to have stalled a bit.

Firmino still looks class to me,

I don't really see what Ox brings to the team at all now, sadly, and I don't think we would miss him. Time for him to move on.

Sorry it's purely speculative on my part, but he's so talented yet barely makes the squad. I'd assume all his issues are the reasons he could be great. Arrogance can bring out the best and worst.

 

[Modo]

Guess how many time he's played 90 minutes in the PL since 2018?

 

[Farkmaster]

Sorry it's purely speculative on my part, but he's so talented yet barely makes the squad. I'd assume all his issues are the reasons he could be great. Arrogance can bring out the best and worst.

Since we are armchair psychologists in this thread, I don't know why I watched this thing a few weeks ago, but I keep thinking about it when Curtis comes up.

Specifically at this time stamp:



This is a kid with self-esteem issues outside of football, and he's been told he's an idiot.

 

[Bradley]

Since we are armchair psychologists in this thread, I don't know why I watched this thing a few weeks ago, but I keep thinking about it when Curtis comes up.

Specifically at this time stamp:



This is a kid with self-esteem issues outside of football, and he's been told he's an idiot.

Oh that is rough.

They really should have editted that out.

 

[ctlovesred]

That actually makes me a little sad for him.

 

[Squiggles]

Guess how many time he's played 90 minutes in the PL since 2018?

Something spectacularly shit...

Twice?

 

[Modo]

Something spectacularly shit...

Twice?

Zero.
Thanks for playing.

 

[Farkmaster]

That actually makes me a little sad for him.

Same. He reminds me of a friend of mine. Great guy, very bright, but severely dyslexic and also super athletic. A lot of coaches basically told him not to bother with school too much, and he generally just wrote himself off as not that capable. Anything to do with sport though, and he seemed really cocky.

Who knows though, really. But I found it telling.