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NFL 2014-15 (Offseason / Draft / Regular Season)

Discussion in 'Other Sports Forum' started by LeTallecWiz, Mar 11, 2014.

  1. Whirly

    Whirly Sucks to Suck. Member

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    You're looking at terribly small sample sizes for that though. Picking Eli or Flacco on the basis of a small number of playoff runs doesn't inspire confidence in me.
     
  2. Leo

    Leo Curse the day Banned

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    Oh yeah forgot about Luck.
    Romo would probably be amongst them too.
    Well I know Eli isn't consistent but when he's under pressure in big games he's definitely elite.
     
  3. Whirly

    Whirly Sucks to Suck. Member

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    I don't think you can blame the Cowboys shortcomings on Romo at all though.

    Take him out of the picture and the Cowboys are competing with the Raiders.
     
  4. LeTallecWiz

    LeTallecWiz Administrator Administrator

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    Romo is not elite - he's very good but he's not elite. Eli under pressure is elite - but overall, he's not ... @Lucas - weigh in bruv.

    Truth ...
     
  5. MC Golgotha

    MC Golgotha Very Active Member

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    Choking is probably harsh, but for a player who is probably the best technical passer of all time and dominated regular season at for over a decade, he has built an unenviable record of being undertaken to win tight postseason games. Eight one and outs in January football, and he held Q4 leads in five of them. Big time players find ways to win those games. Manning didn't do it at Tennessee and he hasn't done it in the pros. For a player of his calibre to have a losing playoff record, as many times as he went to January, it's not unfair that questions are asked.
     
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  6. Whirly

    Whirly Sucks to Suck. Member

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    See, I don't think it's fair to make that distinction on the basis of two game winning drives. Or even two games if you want to spin it like that.

    The more I watch the NFL the more I realize it's all about systems and play calling. Teams aren't necessarily more successful because they are more talented, they're more successful because they acquire players that fit well into the systems they run. The same player will be a bust on one team in System A and a Pro Bowler in System B.
     
  7. Leo

    Leo Curse the day Banned

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    Yeah the last part of that is interesting and probably true.
    But with the sample size of Peyton's post season stats I think it's fair to say that he hasn't performed to the best of his talents in the bigger games over the last decade.
     
  8. MC Golgotha

    MC Golgotha Very Active Member

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    And the system was built for him. He ran it himself.
     
  9. Rosco

    Rosco Worse than Brendan Member

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    How many of them outdoor, cold weather games?
     
  10. Rosco

    Rosco Worse than Brendan Member

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    And as for Eli Manning, has the helmet catch turned him elite?
     
  11. MC Golgotha

    MC Golgotha Very Active Member

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    Only one I remember was when they got housed by like forty points in the Meadowlands.

    They would have been home a lot, at least half. They lost tight homers either side of the Superbowl win, to the Steelers and Chargers. And I remember them losing in Miami and in San Diego.

    So I don't think barometric factors held much sway.
     
  12. MC Golgotha

    MC Golgotha Very Active Member

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    The whole elite thing is a nonsense discussion to me. I mean, I get the whole making comparisons thing, but I'd rather have two rings than Peyton's regular season record.

    Eli's postseason record is nice. I like to think of him at Thanksgiving dinner, a ring on each bird finger and flipping off his brother and old man. He loves them apples.
     
  13. Rosco

    Rosco Worse than Brendan Member

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    The game is all about the rings, but shit Qbs have won them.

    Peyton is easily the better of the brothers, regardless of the ring totals.
     
  14. Leo

    Leo Curse the day Banned

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    No but outplaying Brady(twice),Rodgers,Romo,Ryan and Favre all in the postseason would put him in the mix.
    He's done this without the offensive weapons that Peyton has been dealt too.
    I'm not a fan of Eli but to knock his postseason record is a load of bollix.
     
  15. MC Golgotha

    MC Golgotha Very Active Member

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    Recently, they don't very often. In the modern game, with the salary cap etc, I can think of two. Brad Johnson wasn't even that shit really, and he was hot that first year under Gruden. The only 'shit' QB to win one really is Dilfer, who enjoyed prodigious bouts of luck and had possibly the all time best defence.

    But shit quarterbacks don't win two rings.

    Like I said, Peyton is probably the best technician ever. But when it counts, he comes up dry more often than not. And if that's the case, what do your regular season wins actually mean?
     
  16. Rosco

    Rosco Worse than Brendan Member

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    Well I think the playoff v regular season is just like soccerleague vs cup team comparison.

    You win the league by having consistently very good performances. Teams that have low variance in their performances.

    Teams that win cups are often high variance teams, high ceiling but not enough consistency to win the league.

    And I think the likes of Eli, Flacco, Kaepernick are the best examples of high variance QB's. With Brady, Peyton and Brees being the more consistent variety.
     
  17. MC Golgotha

    MC Golgotha Very Active Member

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    I don't disagree in the theory, or in the value it places on play callers in terms of who you might want if you were in a front office, but in football you get silverware for winning the league. Winning your division doesn't mean shit in the NFL other than getting you to the next stage. So at the end of the day, if you're the best passed of all time, playing in a system tailored for you, and you dominate your regular seasons and have fourteen goes at the playoffs, winning just one of those fourteen and losing eight times at the first ask is more than a statistical aberration, surely. There's something going on.
     
  18. Rosco

    Rosco Worse than Brendan Member

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    I think some of can be explained by having a bit less talent around him.

    Maybe because he is fairly cautious and lacks any running ability, with the time to focus on scouting for him it's easier to come up with a strategy to defend against him?
     
  19. MC Golgotha

    MC Golgotha Very Active Member

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    No doubt. As I said before, I wouldn't label him a choker. There weren't many big games that Indy lost where you'd say Manning stank the place out. Superbowl with Denver was a bit clown shoes, but that's the only one really.

    But at the same time, how many playoff games are there where you're like, "damn, Peyton demolished that team"?

    Part of what makes Gerrard one of Liverpool's greats is beyond his consistency over so many years. It's that in almost every big game we've had for over a decade, he was there doing ridiculous shit. All our cup finals. Dude made them his.

    My problem with Peyton is that he never owned big matches. Never elevated himself and his team to win those squeakers. Those games maybe you shouldn't be winning.

    Big games, he never surprised anyone.
     
  20. Ryan

    Ryan The Prophet Member

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    Mariota nominates, and is tipped to go #1.

    Not sure about that.
     

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