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Reimagining the team for 2024

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rurikbird

Part of the Furniture
Honorary Member


I know it's early days and we the fans (as well as Klopp and Trent himself) are only starting to find out what it could mean to have Trent playing as our CM playmaker, but if this experiment is successful, I think it can subtly shift some priorities in terms of our summer spending. It's ironic that this evolution within the team is happening in real time while our recruitment team were already apparently full steam ahead meeting with potential targets' agents and the offers and budgets were being finalized. So let's imagine a team build around Trent as a midfield maestro and what other elements it needs to be successful.

First, on the evidence of the last two games as well as his career at RB up to this point, we can say that Trent is an incredible attacking weapon. They say the hardest thing in football is to score goals, but I think providing the killer last pass is just as difficult and Trent is undoubtedly among the top 5 players in world football at this element of the game. Shifting him to midfield dramatically increases the amount of touches and passes he gets to attempt per game (he had more passes vs Leeds than in any other game in his senior player career – by some distance); the surprising aspect of this is that it allows him to be much more patient with his pass selection. Now he doesn't have to force anything, he can look for opportunities and allow his teammates to make multiple runs before pulling the trigger.

I have always being curious about the idea of moving Trent in midfield, but even I had no idea how potentially devastating he can be in this position – honestly, the likes of Jorginho, Verratti, Paredes or any other modern-day regista have nothing on him, for every goal-scoring chance they can generate, Trent can make 3 because he has so many more tools in his toolbox. Look at the pass for Nunez's goal again – it's not just the pass itself, he is putting it on a sixpence for Darwin while also evading an opponent's challenge and running forward, all in one flowing motion. It's not just passing, it's the whole package – press resistance, athleticism, speed, relentless energy and creativity... He is Thiago with twice the speed and athleticism; it's fucking scary to be honest. As Leeds and Arsenal found out to their detriment, if you don't stop Trent from doing what he wants to do, he will toy with you the whole game and pick and choose the moments to destroy you.

Before we talk about how teams will try to stop him, let's think how teammates will benefit. As we know from the times of Xabi in LFC, having a super consistent long passer in the middle of the park means you now don't need to progress the game with short passing any more – you still can, of course, but short passing combinations become a Plan B of sorts, a decoy for the real creative force, which is Trent's right foot. This in turn means that you can have more forwards and wingers who make runs beyond the opponent's defence and you have less of a need for a true AM – that's why Rafa's Liverpool almost never played with one. Among our strikers, Nunez seems like he will be the biggest beneficiary – he won't need to worry about creating things (where he usually overthinks), he will just need to make sure his head or foot gets on the end of those self-guiding Trent passes, much like Haaland is getting on the end of De Bruyne's.

Another downstream effect of this tactic will be that Trent's midfield partners will need to be more defensively minded – as opponents try to trap and press him, Trent will drift to various areas of the pitch to find some space to turn and launch yet another missile, perhaps even back to the right wing touchline – so his partners will need to constantly adjust their position relative to his in order to plug gaps in real time. So that calls for a certain type of player – a workmanlike Caicedo-Wijnaldum-Gattuso type rather than those who always need the ball at their feet. Most LFC fans would say this type of player has been our biggest unmet need for a couple of years already, so in that sense the transfer priorities don't change much – but perhaps the emergence of Trent in midfield makes the potential signings of the likes of Lavia and Gravenberch a bit more redundant and perhaps to some extent it applies to Bellingham too. This also makes it harder to see a future here for the likes of Elliott and Carvalho, unfortunately, and any other #10 type. And of course the big decision will be whether Konate will stay in his role as "Trent's RB protector" long-term or we would need to sign someone else there and move Konate to the middle or LCB. In any case, bringing in another top-notch all-around dominant defender who can potentially shift between CB, fullback and possibly midfield roles will be absolute key to making the whole thing work – because in our current squad if Konate gets injured tomorrow, Trent won't have sufficient protection behind him and the whole system will likely collapse.

Lot's more to say or think about, but I think I'll stop here for now. Next few games will be very interesting and perhaps determine the direction of our summer and the following season.
 
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His starting position will still be right back and I think for this experiment to continue to be successful he will have to play that role also going forward, much like Zinchenko for Arsenal. The advantage we are gaining by him moving in central when we have the ball wont be as big if he is starting as a midfielder, imho. It also gives us the advantage of not getting to predictable. The first goal comes from a run down the right and shows the different positions we can get from him.

We need a replacement for Henderson and Fabinho this summer. The Henderson replacement can be Mount as I think he has the necessary tools to operate out wide right but also the energy and defensive skills to cope with the space left behind Trent if need be.

Caciedo would be the perfect Fabinho replacement. Energetic and athletic enough to cover big spaces and the ability to operate them alone.
 
And of course the big decision will be whether Konate will stay in his role as "Trent's RB protector" long-term or we would need to sign someone else there and move Konate to the middle or LCB. In any case, bringing in another top-notch all-around dominant defender who can potentially shift between CB, fullback and possibly midfield roles will be absolute key to making the whole thing work – because in our current squad if Konate gets injured tomorrow, Trent won't have sufficient protection and the whole system will likely collapse.

☝️ Currently, Gomez is probably the back up option for Konate?

vs. Arsenal




Player's average positions (left: vs. Arsenal, right: vs. Leeds)

Untitled.jpg
 
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The bit I'm not quite sure about is whether the plan is to continue with this hybrid RB / midfield role or whether he just moves into midfield proper and leaves life as a RB behind.

The hybrid role is very specialized and will require us to build the team around it and Trent. That's fine but in a way it creates one big single point of failure - if Trent gets injured or loses form, is plan B going to be good enough? The supporting cast will also need to have certain skill sets along with a huge amount of tactical discipline - will we be able to compensate for the frequent injuries our squad seems to suffer from?

Klopp's success comes from building a team that is greater than the sum of it's parts and it really is great when it all comes together. As we've seen though, with a small squad and a lack of individual stars that can rise above the teams level on their own, it makes it harder to deal with problems when they come along.

So which is the best way forward? TAA as RB / CM or just CM?
 
He'll remain a hybrid, as tactically that's what klopp wants.

I'd like to see Trent start in midfield, rather than move in to midfield each game. Then we can fully assess whether it's the hybrid tactic or not that's causing the upturn
 
He'll remain a hybrid, as tactically that's what klopp wants.

I'd like to see Trent start in midfield, rather than move in to midfield each game. Then we can fully assess whether it's the hybrid tactic or not that's causing the upturn

Definitely this. I'd even give Gomez a go in that RB slot vacated by Trent. We have nothing to play for, just start Trent in midfield and let's see how it pans out.
 
I don’t think Klopp will give him a fixed position.

There will be days he’ll just be Trent Arnold and then versus specific teams, he’ll be Trent Bellingham or Jude Arnold, whichever you like.

We’ve now got a new tactical weapon. Well done Jurgen. But first we need to get a very solid RB to make this work.
 
I've always been of the opinion that football is a simple game that tends to be overcomplicated, but that's probably just because I'm useless at analysing tactics etc.

But as a simplistic observer, it's always just seemed obvious that a player with his talent should be close to the forwards and goal. Particularly cos he's not actually any good at defending anyway. You wouldn't play Messi at rb even if he was the best rb the world has ever known. Basic international trade theory.

I agree with keniget about the inherent problems of creating a bespoke system around a single player. You want a formation that as many players as possible can be slotted in and out of.

As such I think he should play on the right of central midfield to exploit his talent, creativity, and also his athleticism. If we had another runner covering space on the other side, maybe we could even afford to leave Fabinho in situ as the DM.
 
Good post.

I've got no answer to the long term plan. I've always been against trying Trent in midfield in Klopps historical 4-3-3, not because of his talent, but because traditionally the role is far more restricted and inexpressive than the attacking RB position. In terms of talent levels there is zero difference between Bellingham and Trent. They're both freakish players and it's pleasing to see we are now experimenting with unleashing Trent in new areas. The speed Trent has adjusted is insane, and to be fair Henderson, Fabinho and Salah also deserve credit in adjusting their game in the build up phase of play.

I would like to see a new RB signed that is more of a traditionalist and provided some protection down the right. My concern is we unleash Trent, but then restrict Robertson, so we need to have threat from multiple areas of the pitch, but I appreciate that may just be rigid thinking. Arteta and Pep have successfully implemented Stones and Zinchenko into hybrid roles this year, so I'm pretty open-minded with this hybrid role staying in place.

The risks to be mindful are:

a) Konate gets injured and the system falls apart.
b) Trent gets man-marked and the supporting cast can not compensate in terms of ball progression and creativity.

We need to have plans in place to adapt to either. I agree surrounding Trent with more 'destroyer' types of CM is going to be the way forward.
 
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If you add a destroyer CDM and an energetic and technically capable all-rounder at RCM, then Trent should flourish in that role.

The biggest risk is Konate getting injured, and that's a pretty big risk tbh - his injury record is not encouraging. Is Gomez at all a reliable back-up?

We could get another big and athletic CB, but then that has to be someone who is comfortable enough playing both LCB and RCB, because we need a van Dijk alternative as well.

So for all this to work - we absolutely need to nail 3 signings - new CDM, new RCM/CAM, new CB.
 
How envision the squad is basically like this:

-------------------------------------------Alisson
------------------Konate / Gomez----------------VVD / New CB (Colwill?)
------------------------------New DM / Fabinho---------------------Robertson
-----------------Trent------------------Bajcetic / Thiago
--------------------------New RCM / Elliott/Jones----------Diaz/Jota
-------------------------Salah--------------Darwin/Gakpo

Basically the defending assigned to 4 players - Konate, VVD, New DM, Bajcetic

Attacking through Trent's playmaking, the press of the front 5, and the ball-carrying and technical ability of Diaz plus the new RCM.
 
Another thing I didn't get around to mentioning in the OP is the change in the role of Salah or whoever will be playing on the wings. Much like Grealish/Mahrez for City in a system with an inverted full-back they become almost wing-backs, responsible for the entire width of the pitch. You could see on the average positions diagram @King Binny posted how Salah moved a bit backwards vs Leeds to adjust to this new system – this required him to be disciplined in staying wide, but he also ended up with 2 goals, so he probably is not complaining too much.

I think Diaz would be a great fit for this role, on either wing; I always felt he is a bit more of a wing-back rather than wing-forward type. In some games you could play with 4 wingers/forwards, i.e.

-----------Trent----[DM]---------
Salah-----------------------Diaz
-----Gakpo/Jota---Nunez-----

...and in others, particularly against stronger opposition a hard-working RCM, the "Valverde type" is essential, so that Trent is flanked by 2 "protectors" much like Pirlo was flanked by Gattuso and Ambrosini/Seedorf in Milan.

And to answer @keniget 's question, again comparing the diagrams from Arsenal vs Leeds you could see Arsenal was more of a hybrid role and vs Leeds was a proper CM performance from start to finish. I think all signs are pointing towards the Leeds model being adopted as the way forward. You could see how other players also adjusted and their positions look much more natural and logical vs Leeds.
 
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If you add a destroyer CDM and an energetic and technically capable all-rounder at RCM, then Trent should flourish in that role.

The biggest risk is Konate getting injured, and that's a pretty big risk tbh - his injury record is not encouraging. Is Gomez at all a reliable back-up?

We could get another big and athletic CB, but then that has to be someone who is comfortable enough playing both LCB and RCB, because we need a van Dijk alternative as well.

So for all this to work - we absolutely need to nail 3 signings - new CDM, new RCM/CAM, new CB.

It all just seems way more complicated than it needs to be. It's solving one problem and inventing 3 more.

Move Trent to midfield, with mainly creative but some defensive duties. Buy two other good and mobile midfielders. Buy a right back. Job done.

Alisson

RB
Van Dijk
Konate
Robertson

DM
Trent
LM

Diaz
Salah
A.N. Other

That should be the broad template. You don't want to be in a position where you need specialists all over the field.
 
Trent wont be a midfielder though. He'll be listed as a defender.

We’ll see, I guess, but I’ll be genuinely surprised if Trent plays RB for us again. I think the horse has bolted and you’re not putting him back in the stable.
 
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We’ll see, I guess, but I’ll be genuinely surprised if Trent plays RB for us again. I think the horse has bolted and you’re not putting him back in the stable.

I'll be surprised if his starting position isnt as RB and being able to perform as a hybrid midfielder when we have the ball like Zinchenko.
If we end up buying Rensch or someone like that then you could well be right though.
 
Sorry lads, tactically lacking here.

What happens to the right back flank when Trent tucks into central midfield. Right midfielder covers? Does that leave us exposed 2 on 1?
 
Another thing I didn't get around to mentioning in the OP is the change in the role of Salah or whoever will be playing on the wings. Much like Grealish/Mahrez for City in a system with an inverted full-back they become almost wing-backs, responsible for the entire width of the pitch. You could see on the average positions diagram @King Binny posted how Salah moved a bit backwards vs Leeds to adjust to this new system – this required him to be disciplined in staying wide, but he also ended up with 2 goals, so he probably is not complaining too much.

I think Diaz would be a great fit for this role, on either wing; I always felt he is a bit more of a wing-back rather than wing-forward type. In some games you could play with 4 wingers/forwards, i.e.

-----------Trent----[DM]---------
Salah-----------------------Diaz
-----Gakpo/Jota---Nunez-----

...and in others, particularly against stronger opposition a hard-working RCM, the "Valverde type" is essential, so that Trent is flanked by 2 "protectors" much like Pirlo was flanked by Gattuso and Ambrosini/Seedorf in Milan.

And to answer @keniget 's question, again comparing the diagrams from Arsenal vs Leeds you could see Arsenal was more of a hybrid role and vs Leeds was a proper CM performance from start to finish. I think all signs are pointing towards the Leeds model being adopted as the way forward. You could see how other players also adjusted and their positions look much more natural and logical vs Leeds.

I noticed yesterday how deep Mo's starting positions were, especially in the first half. I said at the pub that he was playing essentially as a wingback. (And that Hendo was almost in the forward line for much of the first half as well.)
 
Sorry lads, tactically lacking here.

What happens to the right back flank when Trent tucks into central midfield. Right midfielder covers? Does that leave us exposed 2 on 1?
Ibou covers the entirety of the right hand side of the pitch on his own. This explains why we have so may left sided attackers - next season we will be playing a 1-9 formation (reading from right side to left side)
 
Ibou covers the entirety of the right hand side of the pitch on his own. This explains why we have so may left sided attackers - next season we will be playing a 1-9 formation (reading from right side to left side)

Yeah, pretty much that's the plan. You can't hurt us down our right if there is no defender there to run at!

kayode-ewumi-767x460.jpg
 
He's still operating as a RB, as much as he was when he was also apparently RB when his average position was further up the field than all of our midfielders on the right hand side for most of games. In the last few games he has been playing as an inside right rather than an outside right, I suppose, with Hendo and Salah tasked to work the RW. It's obviously a tactical change, but is it permanent, and will it mean he never reverts to that wing back role again? I don't know. I can see how it gives us more defensive stability though, as well as taking advantage of Trent's range of passing. Exciting times.
 
Well, lets go on a smashing run until the end of the season and see how it goes. If anything though, this suggests even more that we need to go balls deep on the Hendo replacement. I don't care if it is Bellingham, though he would obviously be perfect, but we need someone with massive energy, and good physical presence.
 
Its his starting position at RB that makes me think he will continue to be a "defender" and can move up to a hybrid midfielder when we have the ball.
As said earlier in the thread I think that gives us more flexibility and that we wont be as predictable to defend against.

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His starting position will still be right back and I think for this experiment to continue to be successful he will have to play that role also going forward, much like Zinchenko for Arsenal. The advantage we are gaining by him moving in central when we have the ball wont be as big if he is starting as a midfielder, imho. It also gives us the advantage of not getting to predictable. The first goal comes from a run down the right and shows the different positions we can get from him.

We need a replacement for Henderson and Fabinho this summer. The Henderson replacement can be Mount as I think he has the necessary tools to operate out wide right but also the energy and defensive skills to cope with the space left behind Trent if need be.

Caciedo would be the perfect Fabinho replacement. Energetic and athletic enough to cover big spaces and the ability to operate them alone.
I'm still not sold on Caicedo. He's tidy and industrious, but with the amount of problems we have to solve this summer, I don't think he represents good value. Brighton would want big money for him, which would limit our options elsewhere. I'd rather hope this problem could be solved with shrewdness, whether that be by identifying the 'next' Caicedo, or converting an outfield player with the right attributes to a defensive midfielder.
 
Pep's been doing this for a couple of months with City, and it's worked great for them. The exact same on-the-ball system - essentially a 3-2-4-1

Strange that it took Pep doing something like this to finally make Klopp do something a bit more drastic with Trent.
 
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