Reimagining the team for 2024

[Hansern]

I'm still not sold on Caicedo. He's tidy and industrious, but with the amount of problems we have to solve this summer, I don't think he represents good value. Brighton would want big money for him, which would limit our options elsewhere. I'd rather hope this problem could be solved with shrewdness, whether that be by identifying the 'next' Caicedo, or converting an outfield player with the right attributes to a defensive midfielder.

Yeah, thats a good point. The fee will probably be so inflated that its not worth it.

 

[peekay]

I'm still not sold on Caicedo. He's tidy and industrious, but with the amount of problems we have to solve this summer, I don't think he represents good value. Brighton would want big money for him, which would limit our options elsewhere. I'd rather hope this problem could be solved with shrewdness, whether that be by identifying the 'next' Caicedo, or converting an outfield player with the right attributes to a defensive midfielder.

I am betting Brighton replace Caicedo for like 10 million. His attributes are the "easiest" to replace if you have good network of scouting. But every midfielder's price we approach will be inflated. Owners of clubs playing in Indian Super League know that we are desperate for midfielders and will jack up the price.

 

[rurikbird]

But Caicedo is probably the one player (other than Tchouameni who may or may not be on the market) who seems ideally suited to replace both Fabinho and Wijnaldum to an extent and be a perfect defensive foil for Trent. Sometimes it’s worth paying a premium for a player that you know will improve everything right away.

If you think Caicedo’s attributes are “easy” to replace, think about the difference between Kante and a slew of other physical DMs like Bissouma, Idrissa Gueye, Fred etc who all haven’t made nearly the same impact. A top DM is just as difficult to find as a top striker IMO.

 

[peekay]

But Caicedo is probably the one player (other than Tchouameni who may or may not be on the market) who seems ideally suited to replace both Fabinho and Wijnaldum to an extent and be a perfect defensive foil for Trent. Sometimes it’s worth paying a premium for a player that you know will improve everything right away.

If you think Caicedo’s attributes are “easy” to replace, think about the difference between Kante and a slew of other physical DMs like Bissouma, Idrissa Gueye, Fred etc who all haven’t made nearly the same impact. A top DM is just as difficult to find as a top striker IMO.

Just my opinion. I don't think Caicedo is Kante level. Forget Kante, I dont think he is Gini Wijnaldum level. He is an excellent player who looks good because of the system. But I doubt he will be worth the 80/90 million Brighton demand. We need to make every pound stretch. No issues paying 90 million for a Kante level DM.

 

[Delinquent]

Just my opinion. I don't think Caicedo is Kante level. Forget Kante, I dont think he is Gini Wijnaldum level. He is an excellent player who looks good because of the system. But I doubt he will be worth the 80/90 million Brighton demand. We need to make every pound stretch. No issues paying 90 million for a Kante level DM.

Agreed. Tchouameni was supposed to be that player, so I could see why we'd pay top dollar for him. But I haven't seen anything from Caicedo to suggest he's in that bracket. And I think we could reproduce his skillset for a lot less than £60m+.

 

[binomial]

I don't think Caicedo is Kante level. Forget Kante, I dont think he is Gini Wijnaldum level.

 

[rurikbird]

Just my opinion. I don't think Caicedo is Kante level. Forget Kante, I dont think he is Gini Wijnaldum level. He is an excellent player who looks good because of the system. But I doubt he will be worth the 80/90 million Brighton demand. We need to make every pound stretch. No issues paying 90 million for a Kante level DM.

Did you see the Chelsea game? He dominated Enzo like it was nothing. Gone up in my estimation after that.

 

[binomial]

Enzo is crap.

 

[Farkmaster]

Do I have this sequence of events correct:

1) Trent was cutting in to midfield, clearly instructed, occupying many of the same positions as he is now.
2) Our overall structure was flawed, and we lost the ball in transition and didn't press, so he'd get exposed massively on the break and had no help.
3) People complained that he was cutting in to midfield.
4) People complained he wasn't being played in midfield.
5) We sorted out the structure a little, and for about 3 halves of football enjoyed overwhelming possession due to solid pressing.Trent saw a lot of the ball from the same positions.
6) All is well?

 

[King Binny]

But Caicedo is probably the one player (other than Tchouameni who may or may not be on the market) who seems ideally suited to replace both Fabinho and Wijnaldum to an extent and be a perfect defensive foil for Trent. Sometimes it’s worth paying a premium for a player that you know will improve everything right away.

If you think Caicedo’s attributes are “easy” to replace, think about the difference between Kante and a slew of other physical DMs like Bissouma, Idrissa Gueye, Fred etc who all haven’t made nearly the same impact. A top DM is just as difficult to find as a top striker IMO.

 

[rurikbird]

Thanks, @King Binny - especially for that clip of him brutalizing Enzo and co., I was looking for it... This was every bit as good as that Momo vs Ballack performance. I think Caicedo keeps getting better, even compared to what he was just a few months ago - watch him now and you will see Kante comparisons are not so far-fetched.

 

[ctlovesred]

Do I have this sequence of events correct:

1) Trent was cutting in to midfield, clearly instructed, occupying many of the same positions as he is now.
2) Our overall structure was flawed, and we lost the ball in transition and didn't press, so he'd get exposed massively on the break and had no help.
3) People complained that he was cutting in to midfield.
4) People complained he wasn't being played in midfield.
5) We sorted out the structure a little, and for about 3 halves of football enjoyed overwhelming possession due to solid pressing.Trent saw a lot of the ball from the same positions.
6) All is well?

I find your lack of faith…disturbing

 

[Farkmaster]

I find your lack of faith…disturbing

My point isn't that Trent cannot be a midfielder. It's that he is only going to get into that position if we have a platform for it, and that klopp has been attempting to use him in this way all year. Also, when he was in that position early in the season, without konate behind him, and without any credible pressing from the front, and teams countered us easily, he was excoriated for doing exactly what he's being lauded for doing now. Finally, klopp was said to be stubborn despite trying to work Trent into these same positions.

 

[Hansern]

Thanks, @King Binny - especially for that clip of him brutalizing Enzo and co., I was looking for it... This was every bit as good as that Momo vs Ballack performance. I think Caicedo keeps getting better, even compared to what he was just a few months ago - watch him now and you will see Kante comparisons are not so far-fetched.

Signing Caicedo and not Bellingham will make us a better team.

*runs

 

[Frogfish]

If you add a destroyer CDM and an energetic and technically capable all-rounder at RCM, then Trent should flourish in that role.

The biggest risk is Konate getting injured, and that's a pretty big risk tbh - his injury record is not encouraging. Is Gomez at all a reliable back-up?

We could get another big and athletic CB, but then that has to be someone who is comfortable enough playing both LCB and RCB, because we need a van Dijk alternative as well.

So for all this to work - we absolutely need to nail 3 signings - new CDM, new RCM/CAM, new CB.

Unless we get a really good offer or him (unlikely, though he is English so there is that) I doubt Gomez will be sold. The upside is that he is very fast and will be behind Konate in the pecking order so not a starter except for FAC/LC or when Konate is injured. He's also OK at RB so although he has his brain farts he also has really good games too. As backup he's just fine.