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Sack him

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IGotALuvlyBunchOfCoconuts said:
Man if I ever get your approval let me know, want to put that on my resume.
Click to expand...
'My Approval'? What the fuck are you on about? Approval for what? You are neither annoying or interesting so I tend to just skip over you. I guess though that the very nature of this conversation has elevated you to 'interesting'. Only mildly interesting though. :)
 
Ryan said:
Y’see, the problem here is that because we’ve got an outlandish title and first post, anyone who dares criticise Rodgers now is somehow a Newcastle fan.

Is it not alright to question the manager? Is it not ok to be unhappy with losing 3 or 4 games in a row? To be in 11th place? To discuss the signings that we spent hundreds of millions on? Cos I fucking well think it is.

Here’s my issue with Rodgers, and I’ve been pretty firm on this from day one - if you don’t believe me, here’s 3 of my posts on it from the last 20 odd months. Same issues, same point made:

http://sixcrazyminutes.com/index.php?threads/the-summer-of-skrtl.28864/page-2#post-890980

http://sixcrazyminutes.com/index.php?threads/hull-post-match-thread.40817/page-6#post-1025764

http://sixcrazyminutes.com/index.php?threads/lovrens-got-his-work-cut-out.53438/#post-1170523

Anyway, my issue with Rodgers. He hasn’t a clue how to set a team up defensively. He said this last week…

“We have conceded a large number of soft goals, there’s no argument about that, but I think it is just a lack of coaching time that is hurting us. We need to reinforce basic principles at defensive set pieces, but we know that already. We have to get better and we will be working on it."

That’s a disgrace right there. Who do you think you’re kidding Rodgers? You’ve been in the job for 3 seasons now, and the same mistakes that were evident away to West Brom in game one, are the same as the ones we saw on Saturday past.

Here’s some facts to counter your bullshit Rodgers.

  • You’ve used 7 different centre backs in the last 18 months, and god knows how many different CB pairings.
  • In the last 18 months you’ve spent close to $80M on defenders and a goalkeeper (not including the 4 or 5 loans and free transfers on defenders).
  • You’ve tried 5 different defensive midfielders in that time (Gerrard, Lucas, Allen, Henderson, Can) all to minimal effect.
  • Of the top 12 teams in the league this year, only Everton have conceded more goals than us.
  • Of the top 15 teams in the league last year, only Newcastle conceded more than us.
We are a lower table club when it comes to defending, and we’ve spent 80M in 18 months on defenders to get us there. So do not feed the fans pure shite about having “a lack of coaching time” Rodgers. This defending malaise isn’t a blip, it’s a trend. It’s how we’ve played for 3 seasons.


Good managers, great managers fix defences first. Look at the two best teams in this league – City & Chelsea. As mentioned in those other threads above, Mancini fixed the City defence as the very first thing he did. It took him 2 years, and they barely scored a goal in that time, but they went on to win two league titles off that defence. Mourinho’s Chelsea defence of 2004/05 and the system (cos it’s all about the system, forget the tinkering of players here and there) are still in place now 10 years later. And they’ll win the league this year on the back of it. (It’s also why Arsenal never win anything by the way. They’ve got attackers as good as any other side, perhaps better, but Wenger refuses to fix the defence. He inherited that famous back 4, added Sol Campbell to it, and hasn’t bought one good defender or goalkeeper since.)

We are so far removed from having a coordinated defensive system it’s fucking frightening. A proper shape and system stands the test of time; years and years of grinding out games, winning 1-0, keeping you in the title hunt, and giving you a platform to win games from. Rodgers has not even found a way for us to hold onto a lead against QPR and Norwich with 5 minutes to go. That’s the truth, he cannot even get us into ‘last 5 minute defensive mode’. Never mind making us consistently hard to beat on an ongoing basis, he has not even shown the capacity to have us defend a lead against shite teams.

It’s not a one-off. We look like conceding against everyone. I can’t even remember who that league cup side was we played last month that waltzed through our defence, but they did, whoever the fuck they were. Norwich away in the last 3 or 4 games last year was the one I always remember. How on Earth we managed to steal a victory there I don’t know. Actually I do, luck and Suarez. Eventually our luck ran out, and so too did Suarez in the summer. And now we’re left with that same shite defence, and no goals or bite.

I watched us on Saturday just retreat and retreat defensively to a point where I was convinced we were hoping Chelsea would score so that it’d allow us the opportunity to go and chase the lead again. I do not understand why our two central defenders continually run backwards and drop deep. They must be getting instructed to do so, cos if they’re doing that of their own free will and Rodgers is allowing it to happen, then we’re beyond fucked. Someone posted a video of how Gerrard got overran in DM the other day. It’s a reasonable video, he’s diving in when he should be standing off, he’s getting easily outnumbered, and he’s too slow on the turn. But did it strike anyone else that everytime Hazard, or Fabregas, or whomever got around him that they then had a fucking acre of space to run into? Why is there such an enormous gap between Gerrard and our centre backs? Because our centre backs are running backwards that’s fucking why. At the first sign of fear, even if it’s 40-50 yards from goal, Skrtel runs backwards. He simply does not know how to defend a line. He’s been with us for 7 years now too. That is fucking frightening.

Lovren too, Agger did the same, Sakho just goes where he’s told, Toure at least understands you have to move up the pitch but he’s too fucking old. It’s not the players though. We have this debate every week about who should play CB, somebody even suggested Emre Can there last week. Christ. Every week of every year we are presiding over which of our CB’s is the least shit, and therefore they should play. Again, it’s not the players. It’s the system. If you can make a hacker like Gary Cahill fit into your system, then you can do it with Dejan Lovren & Martin Skrtel. They’re not horrendous, they’ve just never been educated. You don't just buy a defensive 'leader' and expect him to fix your woes, you've got to build the system around him and let him lead it on the pitch. 'Go be a leader' is not defensive coaching. Moyes had Phil Jagielka and Sylvain Distin – two absolute mediocrities – as the best CB pairing in the country for 2 or 3 years - because he taught them, and obviously drilled them on the training ground mercilessly. It’s not hard.

And that’s my concern. It’s not that hard to educate defenders, to build a system, and to win games regularly. It really isn’t. You need money ($80M is a decent start), time (into the third season now Brendan), and you need the capacity to coach defending (getting found wanting here I'd say).

Our Manager doesn’t know how to defend. We have a striker coming back from injury around whom our whole season seemingly hangs. We’ve, on the short term evidence anyway, replaced Suarez badly, we’ve got a dysfunctional midfield, an awful goalkeeper, and we’re on our way out of our Champions League group. The scary bit of the lot is that Rodgers doesn’t seem to have a plan to fix the structural issues. I was screaming at the TV on the weekend at Skrtel. Stop running so fucking deep. And there's Rodgers writing notes. They came back out in the second half, as they do every week, and did the same thing again. He doesn't even see it.

We have, and I mean this, the worst defence I've ever seen in my Liverpool-supporting life. Sturridge coming back will only put lipstick on this pig.

So yeah, Rodgers is on notice as far as I’m concerned.
Click to expand...


God's that's a good post. Shame it's stuck in this fucking turgid eye-rape of a thread.
 
If LFC wasn't a football club, and we imagine just a cold business decision - how long would someone be allowed stay at the helm of that company (let's say hypothetically it was your company), having lost his support structure, seemingly rudderless and clueless - with about 60 million quid or so at stake if he doesn't turn shit around in 5 months?

That's what I thought motherfuckers.
 
Dirty Sanchez said:
If LFC wasn't a football club, and we imagine just a cold business decision - how long would someone be allowed stay at the helm of that company (let's say hypothetically it was your company), having lost his support structure, seemingly rudderless and clueless - with about 60 million quid or so at stake if he doesn't turn shit around in 5 months?

That's what I thought motherfuckers.
Click to expand...

How quickly do you think the board of any sane company would move to fire a company ceo whose most recent annual returns were the best they had seen in nearly two decades and removing him would cost them tens of millions of pounds with no serious alternative candidate available?

Thats what I thought
 
RedStar said:
How quickly do you think the board of any sane company would move to fire a company ceo whose most recent annual returns were the best they had seen in nearly two decades and removing him would cost them tens of millions of pounds with no serious alternative candidate available?

Thats what I thought
Click to expand...
Very quickly.
 
So do we think Rodgers is suffering from the problem if surrounding himself with too many "yes men" that aren't up to it or is he too proud to admit there are areas he needs to improve on.

I don't know what to make if the "transfer committee" thing - seems a little too convenient.

In any case - what is Steve Clarke doing these days - he might be a better man to get involved, if he can swallow his pride a little.
 
Excellent post by Ryan above. To highlight one point; Skrtel and Lovren are fine defenders who are playing shite for us and so the problem lies with the manager/coaching. I saw Lovren regularly last season and he didn't put a foot wrong. I've seen Skrtel a few times recently for Slovakia and he looks imperious; in their recent win over Spain he did a man-for-man job on Diego Costa and he monstered him, won every header and tackle all night and not one last ditch tpye of tackle that he regularly has to resort to at LFC.

We need to pick a consistent back 4 (I'd go with Flanagan...Skrtel....Lovren...Moreno), give them a decent keeper behind them and lets see if Emre Can can offer the defence the protection that Gerrard and Lucas can't.

..............................Decent Keeper.............................
Flanagan...........Skrtel.............Lovren................Moreno.
.............................Can......Henderson.......................
 
StevieM said:
So do we think Rodgers is suffering from the problem if surrounding himself with too many "yes men" that aren't up to it or is he too proud to admit there are areas he needs to improve on.

I don't know what to make if the "transfer committee" thing - seems a little too convenient.

In any case - what is Steve Clarke doing these days - he might be a better man to get involved, if he can swallow his pride a little.
Click to expand...


I think all managers surround themselves with coaches they know; I don't think it's the case of being yes men necessarily. What concerns me about the coaching staff at Liverpool is that there's no experience there worth talking about. We've spent loads of time and money trying to bring in people of the ilk of Inglethorpe to the Academy; I don't get why we aren't bringing in that calibre of coach for the first team, people who excel as coaches and, ideally, have a decent amount of experience. It doesn't necessarily follow that they all need to be seasoned veterans at top clubs, but at least one who has been coaching at a top level for a decent amount of time would be good.

One of the things the Boot Room staff used to do is keep a book on things that had gone wrong and how they fixed it over the years, so they could refer back to it if they hit a rocky patch in terms of form to see if something similar had happened in the past. I know football changes but I think that sort of stuff is invaluable.
 
Pesam said:
Excellent post by Ryan above. To highlight the point; Skrtel and Lovren are fine defenders who are playing shite for us and so the problem lies with the manager/coaching. I saw Lovren regularly last season and he didn't put a foot wrong. I've seen Skrtel a few times recently for Slovakia and he looks imperious; in their recent win over Spain he did a man-for-man job on Diego Costa and he monstered him, won every header and tackle all night and not one last ditch tpye of tackle that he regularly has to resort to at LFC.

We need to pick a consistent back 4 (I'd go with Flanagan...Skrtel....Lovren...Moreno), give them a decent keeper behind them and lets see if Emre Can can offer the defence the protection that Gerrard and Lucas can't.

..............................Decent Keeper.............................
Flanagan...........Skrtel.............Lovren................Moreno.
.............................Can......Henderson.......................
Click to expand...

When is Flanagan available again?
 
A touch of hubris in Rodgers' make up at the moment and he must be learning some pretty harsh lessons. I do wonder if his personal life tribulations are having a negative effect on his decision making.
 
RedStar said:
How quickly do you think the board of any sane company would move to fire a company ceo whose most recent annual returns were the best they had seen in nearly two decades and removing him would cost them tens of millions of pounds with no serious alternative candidate available?

Thats what I thought
Click to expand...


Have you ever worked in the corporate world? Nothing is based on what you did. It's what you're doing right now that matters. Plus, its increasingly obvious that Rodgers wasn't really the architect of the "best annual return in two decades". He was part of it to be fair, but that accolade falls to Suarez.
 
Dirty Sanchez said:
Have you ever worked in the corporate world? Nothing is based on what you did. It's what you're doing right now that matters. Plus, its increasingly obvious that Rodgers wasn't really the architect of the "best annual return in two decades". He was part of it to be fair, but that accolade falls to Suarez.
Click to expand...
This is true except any normal corporate company wouldn't be constrained to a time window where you can 'transfer' your employees and if one of your employees was on a racism charge or in court for biting someone then he'll probably be sacked rather than having your colleagues where a t-shirt about you. You also wouldn't get a forum discussing how your company is doing with respect to the competition in the same industry. I'm also pretty sure the company wouldn't get 3-points if they beat their competition but, hey, you're right the manager would have a reasonable chance of being sacked if his company was consistently performing badly.
 
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