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Sack him

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As much as I have slated Rodgers and do not think he is up to the job both from a defensive and recruitment point of view.....

We have to give him until the end of the season, then we can get rid if we don't improve how we our playing both in attack and more importantly in defence.
 
the inept baffoon who nearly won the title last year, coming closer than anyone has since Kenny's first stint.

Not that I want to argue against the sentiment, but.....

Technically - Rafa's best season yielded more points than last season.

It's not a reason for wanting him back, unless you're slightly mental.
 
the inept baffoon who nearly won the title last year, coming closer than anyone has since Kenny's first stint.
Mark.. he has failed to address a key area of our game.. The defence..
Arguably it was that reason that lost us the title last season.. Our attacking play carried us..

He does not learn from his mistakes, refuses to play new signings to save face. Cannot get the best out of any starting 11 he deploys..

1 game in nearly 25 has been entertaining to watch this season. 1 Game!! Tactically inept..

Rafa also gained a higher points tally than Rodgers last season, which any other year, would of won us the title. We where just beaten that year by a Man UTD side that contained a wonderful Cristiano Ronaldo..
 
Not that I want to argue against the sentiment, but.....

Technically - Rafa's best season yielded more points than last season.

It's not a reason for wanting him back, unless you're slightly mental.

RedNinja liked my post.

I feel sick.

... and it's not last nights chilli (my ring hole is just tickety-boo in case anyone wondered).
 
Someone at the club is briefing the journalists, because the same points and quotes about arrogance, complacency and the failings of Ayre are all appearing simultaneously in the broadsheets. That's a bit ominous. When a lone insider just wants to vent their frustration they usually go to the tabloid hacks. When a faction are contemplating something much more clinical they go to the broadsheet contacts and do this.


Ayre being binned? Or moved to a different role?
 
Mark.. he has failed to address a key area of our game.. The defence..
Arguably it was that reason that lost us the title last season.. Our attacking play carried us..

He does not learn from his mistakes, refuses to play new signings to save face. Cannot get the best out of any starting 11 he deploys..

1 game in nearly 25 has been entertaining to watch this season. 1 Game!! Tactically inept..

Our attacking play carried us? Our attacking play propelled us from 7th to 2nd, he bought two of the fulcrums of that. How selective do you want to be?
 
Someone at the club is briefing the journalists, because the same points and quotes about arrogance, complacency and the failings of Ayre are all appearing simultaneously in the broadsheets. That's a bit ominous. When a lone insider just wants to vent their frustration they usually go to the tabloid hacks. When a faction are contemplating something much more clinical they go to the broadsheet contacts and do this.

I haven't seen any of this?
 
Mark.. he has failed to address a key area of our game.. The defence..
Arguably it was that reason that lost us the title last season.. Our attacking play carried us..

He does not learn from his mistakes, refuses to play new signings to save face. Cannot get the best out of any starting 11 he deploys..

1 game in nearly 25 has been entertaining to watch this season. 1 Game!! Tactically inept..

Rafa also gained a higher points tally than Rodgers last season, which any other year, would of won us the title. We where just beaten that year by a Man UTD side that contained a wonderful Cristiano Ronaldo..


... and to balance..... Rafa's best season would of still seen us finish 2nd last season.

And it's absolute nonsense to think that 86 points would have won us the title in any other year.

It wouldn't.
 
Twice in the last 12 or so years, would Rafa's 86 points (given the goal difference) actually won the league.

Which is the same as Rodgers 84 points.
 
Ayre being binned? Or moved to a different role?

I'm looking into it, but it sounds more like him being binned. I'm not sure yet who's doing these briefings but they sound like very traditional LFC people rather than anyone from FSG. I do know a long-standing gripe about Ayre is that he's absolutely useless at networking at the Premier League, where the only thing he's done is piss off the grandees with his cockiness. The more pragmatic people at the club (and John Henry at FSG) feel it's important to have a David Dein-style CEO who can shmooze with the bigwigs at the Premier League and get on the important top committees to protect the club and influence all kinds of issues, and Ayre, from the days of his references to 'little clubs' like Bolton and Wigan, has effectively been frozen out - and, to be fair to his critics, the treatment of the club over various Suarez and other controversies has shown this view to be right. We've got no one inside fighting our corner; anything we want can be voted down by various other factions. Obviously, in terms of the credit side, his commercial nous has proven very effective, but his incompetence in terms of transfers, and his perceived egomania in terms of his behaviour behind closed doors, added to his failures as a networker, have caused him to make plenty of enemies behind closed doors, who've been simmering with anger for some time. So I'd say he's on very thin ice.
 
I'm looking into it, but it sounds more like him being binned. I'm not sure yet who's doing these briefings but they sound like very traditional LFC people rather than anyone from FSG. I do know a long-standing gripe about Ayre is that he's absolutely useless at networking at the Premier League, where the only thing he's done is piss off the grandees with his cockiness. The more pragmatic people at the club (and John Henry at FSG) feel it's important to have a David Dein-style CEO who can shmooze with the bigwigs at the Premier League and get on the important top committees to protect the club and influence all kinds of issues, and Ayre, from the days of his references to 'little clubs' like Bolton and Wigan, has effectively been frozen out - and, to be fair to his critics, the treatment of the club over various Suarez and other controversies has shown this view to be right. We've got no one inside fighting our corner. Obviously, in terms of the credit side, his commercial nous has proven very effective, but his incompetence in terms of transfers, and his perceived egomania in terms of his behaviour behind closed doors, added to his failures as a networker, have caused him to make plenty of enemies behind closed doors, who've been simmering with anger for some time. So I'd say he's on very thing ice.


Very interesting. Thanks Macca. Would be great if we could get the real David Dein to join us.
 
Oh and on Rodgers, it's fair to say we were fucked the moment Suarez left AND Sturridge got injured. However; it's the lack of planning for these 2 inevitable occurrences that bother me.

Also, I was really hoping that Rodgers could get our team playing better than the sum of all parts given that we were unlikely to get a superstar after Suarez; but he has also failed to deliver in this aspect.
 
I'm looking into it, but it sounds more like him being binned. I'm not sure yet who's doing these briefings but they sound like very traditional LFC people rather than anyone from FSG. I do know a long-standing gripe about Ayre is that he's absolutely useless at networking at the Premier League, where the only thing he's done is piss off the grandees with his cockiness. The more pragmatic people at the club (and John Henry at FSG) feel it's important to have a David Dein-style CEO who can shmooze with the bigwigs at the Premier League and get on the important top committees to protect the club and influence all kinds of issues, and Ayre, from the days of his references to 'little clubs' like Bolton and Wigan, has effectively been frozen out - and, to be fair to his critics, the treatment of the club over various Suarez and other controversies has shown this view to be right. We've got no one inside fighting our corner; anything we want can be voted down by various other factions. Obviously, in terms of the credit side, his commercial nous has proven very effective, but his incompetence in terms of transfers, and his perceived egomania in terms of his behaviour behind closed doors, added to his failures as a networker, have caused him to make plenty of enemies behind closed doors, who've been simmering with anger for some time. So I'd say he's on very thin ice.

Makes a lot of sense. Keep him on in the commercial side but bin him off as CEO

He defo thinks he's the shit as well. I asked him if we were selling Suarez last year and he just laughed, told us we stank of weed (had a spliff in my hand but not the point) and walked off. He smells like an airport duty free as well
 
It's been mooted for a while about Ayre, but people in his position are always easy targets so it's difficult to tell. Like it's hard to tell who's culpable for signings - Rodgers, the "panel", Ayre, all three? There's always a scapegoat. The scouts were booted a few months ago, if Ayre goes now then it sounds like a real shakeup.

Someone should leak similar stories about our defensive coaches.
 
Wanting to correct a mistake isn't ridiculous JJ, it's all too human. However that time has passed.

We have a bright young Manager learning on the job, with all the pressure of being in constant media spotlight, something the owners will have considered when they hired him.

I think BR has coped well, making mistakes of course, but what he needs most is some luck; anyone losing their best two players would struggle for continuity.

Save hiring a real top notch Manager at vast expense I can't see a better option. He has engineered a points tally and goal ratio better than most and in a short time.It would be short-sighted to overlook that positivity because of the current nervousness.

But Modo didn't think it *was* a mistake to get rid of Rafa (and rightly not, I might add). His quarrel - again rightly - was with Hodgson's disastrous performance as Rafa's replacement, but some sort of weird mental chicane has led his thoughts round to the extraordinary idea that fetching Rafa back is somehow the way to right that wrong. It's mental. Truly, genuinely mental.
 
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But Modo didn't think it *was* a mistake to get rid of Rafa (and rightly not, I might add). His quarrel - again rightly - was with Hodgson's disastrous performance as Rafa's replacement, but some sort of weird mental chicane has led his thoughts round to the extraordinary idea that fetching Rafa back is somehow the way to right that wrong. It's mental. Truly, genuinely mental.


Well I wouldn't call re-hiring a Manager 'mental' and thinking something a mistake and then changing your mind in the light of circumstances doesn't seem unreasonable to me either.

All a bit esoteric that discussion, I can't see many outside the club giving it credence anyway. BR was chosen by the owners and I think they would have factored in some ups and downs due to inexperience at the top level therefore they'll persist, I think, unless the wheels really do come off.
 
Well I wouldn't call re-hiring a Manager 'mental' and thinking something a mistake and then changing your mind in the light of circumstances doesn't seem unreasonable to me either.

All a bit esoteric that discussion, I can't see many outside the club giving it credence anyway. BR was chosen by the owners and I think they would have factored in some ups and downs due to inexperience at the top level therefore they'll persist, I think, unless the wheels really do come off.

Saying he was wrong to want Rafa gone would be one thing - I wouldn't agree with it, but it would make some kind of basic sense. That isn't what he's saying though. He's saying "I want Rafa back because we replaced him with Hodgson", which makes absolutely no kind of sense whatsoever.
 
I'm looking into it, but it sounds more like him being binned. I'm not sure yet who's doing these briefings but they sound like very traditional LFC people rather than anyone from FSG. I do know a long-standing gripe about Ayre is that he's absolutely useless at networking at the Premier League, where the only thing he's done is piss off the grandees with his cockiness. The more pragmatic people at the club (and John Henry at FSG) feel it's important to have a David Dein-style CEO who can shmooze with the bigwigs at the Premier League and get on the important top committees to protect the club and influence all kinds of issues, and Ayre, from the days of his references to 'little clubs' like Bolton and Wigan, has effectively been frozen out - and, to be fair to his critics, the treatment of the club over various Suarez and other controversies has shown this view to be right. We've got no one inside fighting our corner; anything we want can be voted down by various other factions. Obviously, in terms of the credit side, his commercial nous has proven very effective, but his incompetence in terms of transfers, and his perceived egomania in terms of his behaviour behind closed doors, added to his failures as a networker, have caused him to make plenty of enemies behind closed doors, who've been simmering with anger for some time. So I'd say he's on very thin ice.

@gkmacca


Since you have some insight into the working on the club. Do you think we as a club are suffering when people try to overreach beyond their capabilities? I think Ian Ayre is fine on the commercial side of things. Apparently when he tries to get involved in the footballing side he fails. So why do that? Why doesn't he stick with the commercial side of things and stay away from the football decision making? Same with Purslow.

Even our managers. Once they become a Liverpool manager why don't they stick to coaching and managing the first team. It actually provides them immunity and their jobs will last longer. Instead they try to influence every aspect including U10 team diet and change every coach and every scout. For example, if Rodgers had accepted the DOF model and we had a similar summer of transfers, there will be a lot of sympathy for him and the chances of him being fired will be lesser. I just dont understand this mentality of everyone associated with LFC trying to do things outside their comfort zone. Football has become lot more complicated and specialized.

It is like everyone who steps in the hotseat at Anfield tries to become a Shankly or Sir John Smith - an emblem of the club and city. There will only be one Shankly and one Sir John Smith. So why even try to emulate them. Also Shankly and Sir John Smith did not try to actively engage in activities leading to an increase in power and influence and respect. They earned them by being damn good at what they do.

If Rodgers is fired, the new manager will come in and change every coach and every scout over a period of three years. Our long term planning must be the worst among all major global organizations. It is exasperating how bad we are.
 
Yes. Ayre's failings are in large part in terms of personality - he now has a sort of unofficial posse around him, with Fowler and others flitting in and out, which wouldn't really bother people much if the club was right back at the top again and winning trophies all the time, but there's a feeling Ayre's way too relaxed and pleased with himself at a time when he ought to have his office door shut and working round the clock to push the club on. His commercial talents are still valued, of course, but ironically he's brought in enough people on that side to make himself, not quite expendable, but not the crucial figure he once was. A great deal of luck seems necessary to come close to replicating the old LFC model - Smith and Robinson were tough cookies and smart people, but they were also genuinely decent gentlemen who won massive respect for the club in the way they went about their jobs. We were lucky to get them and we'll be very lucky to find anyone similar these days. But we can certainly get better operators in a political sense. Parry, for all his faults, could pull strings for us at the Premier League, as he was one of its architects and he kept all his key contacts. Purslow appalled them - he was as oily, smug and tactless as I'm sure everyone on here can imagine, and so, thanks to him, even the likes of Dave Whelan had more clout there than we did. Ayre is almost as bad - he's cocked up every chance he's had to build bridges with the powers that be, and the Suarez debacle was made massively worse than it would have been because he'd isolated himself, and the club, so badly. Personally I think we need a ruthless but savvy CEO, who'll concentrate on the transfers etc, and a good and decent figurehead who'll inspire good will among the broader football world and serve as a reassuring public figurehead. They can call each of them whatever they like, but I think we need both.
 
Wow. Against that kind of background I'm starting to think it might actually be a good thing if moves are afoot to get him out, of the CEO's role at least.
 
Re Rafa last year with us..

I think at the time I was like everyone else, expecting we could get better.

If I'd of known Hodgson was to replace him, I would never of wanted him sacked in the first place.. The fact we got Hodgson in shows the state the club was in behind the scenes.

Rafa had to work to those constraints.. In a better environment with better owners he probably would of thrived

There is better managers out there I agree.. Would they come to us ? I am not so sure. Rafa is a better manager tactically than the inept bafoon we currently employ..

"HAVE" FFS.
HAVE
EDIT: Well in, Aidan.
 
Rodgers is back doing the 'you have to remember what we inherited' line, which sounded bad enough (to me at least) in his first season, as he made it sound like the club was in a worse state than Rangers, but to repeat it now, after last season, is just pathetic.
 
Rodgers is back doing the 'you have to remember what we inherited' line, which sounded bad enough (to me at least) in his first season, as he made it sound like the club was in a worse state than Rangers, but to repeat it now, after last season, is just pathetic.

agreed
 
You can tell we're below par when every last word out of the Managers mouth is analyzed to a minute degree as if it contains some kind of poison seeping through the veins of the club and crippling it.

What a bunch of whining bitches the club has for 'supporters' these days.

The blokes just doing his job, answering questions with his opinions; which he's entitled to.
 
You can tell we're below par when every last word out of the Managers mouth is analyzed to a minute degree as if it contains some kind of poison seeping through the veins of the club and crippling it.

What a bunch of whining bitches the club has for 'supporters' these days.

The blokes just doing his job, answering questions with his opinions; which he's entitled to.


That seems wildly over the top - yes, he has to answer questions, but when he answers them in ways that strike us as silly or erroneous we also have a right to express our opinions.
 
Sadly, what he's saying is pretty much what managers who are about to get sacked say.
 
That seems wildly over the top - yes, he has to answer questions, but when he answers them in ways that strike us as silly or erroneous we also have a right to express our opinions.


Personally I think way too much significance is placed on the words out of the Managers mouth. It's just another excuse to vent.

Whatever, his words will pass into the ether in due course the same as all the other meaningless guff. If we we're winning he could conduct an interview in the style of Stanley Unwin and we'd all hail it as words from the messiah.
 
There’s no one better than me to manage Liverpool, Brendan Rodgers says


335b107a-823d-11e4-_820596c.jpg


Tony Barrett
Last updated at 12:01AM, December 13 2014
Liverpool manager remains confident he can get his side back on track with tomorrow’s journey to Old Trafford, Tony Barrett says


Brendan Rodgers has responded to mounting criticism of his methods and suggestions that his job could be in jeopardy with a strident insistence that there is no one better equipped to manage Liverpool.

Before Liverpool’s crucial visit to Old Trafford to face Manchester United tomorrow, Rodgers mounted a staunch defence of his record since taking over as manager in the summer of 2012, highlighting last season’s title challenge and his history of improving players as the chief reasons why his position should not be under threat.

Despite acknowledging that being ninth in the Barclays Premier League and failing to qualify for the last 16 of the Champions League is not good enough for “one of the biggest clubs in the world”, Rodgers maintains that he has not lost any faith in his ability to return Liverpool to the standards they set last season. The Liverpool manager did admit, though, that “command” of such a sporting institution is “lonely”.

“I think the message for me is clear, I don’t think there would be anyone better to do the job here,” Rodgers said. “Seven months ago we nearly won the title unexpectedly. I had time to work with players and took them beyond where the club has been, which was above expectation.

“This has been a difficult start with new players, less coaching time, young players, virtually starting again. I don’t think there is anybody equipped better to deal with that, having been here for the last two-and-a-half years, and experienced what this club is about and seeing what we get from the players whenever we are at our best.

“It comes with the territory [criticism and people calling for a new manager] when you don’t win games. Football is very short term. [For] the same people, maybe six or seven months ago, I couldn’t do anything wrong. You have to accept that as a manager and fight even harder to bring success. I certainly don’t doubt myself.”

The contrasting transfer strategies of the clubs have been consistently cited as one of the contrasting fortunes of Liverpool and United before their latest meeting. Whereas Louis van Gaal was able to recruit proven world-class talent such as Ángel Di María and Radamel Falcao, Rodgers has been asked to incorporate and improve players from a lower level. The difference in approach is apparent in their respective results, with United outperforming their northwest rivals, despite finishing 20 points below them last season.

“I think the club is in a different place to others, but that is something that I accept as part of my job here at Liverpool,” Rodgers said. “I will always fight for the club and the people to try and make us the best that we can possibly be. The club have employed someone who, without being arrogant, believes he can get the best out of a senior player or youth player. He will always maximise talents that he has and I think last year proved that.

“I know exactly where we are at. Of course there is a little frustration in terms of where we were for a couple of years and where we built it, too, and we are sort of starting again really. I will take the responsibility for that. Last year, of course when you do so well, it’s the players, and rightly so. The recruitment is good, everything in the club is good.

“When you’re doing not so well, it’s the manager, and that is football, so you learn to deal with that. I’ve got to find a way with the squad of players, and the players we don’t have that are injured, to find a way to release our talent and our football again. That’s driving me on every single day and I won’t be happy until I get that again.”

The previous time Liverpool’s team bus pulled into the Old Trafford car park, those on board scented blood but also glory. United, demoralised and downtrodden, were there for the taking and so too, it seemed, was the league title. Tomorrow, just nine months after that unforgettable afternoon, Rodgers and his players will alight the coach at the same venue looking to stem their own bleeding. The hunter has become the hunted.

“The last time? What month was it — March? We would have been flying at the time,” Jordan Henderson said. We were going there with a great belief that we could win the game and we did.”

That was then, but this is now. The excitement of spring has gone, packed off with Luis Suárez, and been replaced by the harshest of winters.

Fourteen points separated the teams after their previous meeting, a 3-0 win by Liverpool that enabled them to move farther ahead of their great rivals and close in on Chelsea, the leaders. A month later, David Moyes was sacked. This time around it is Rodgers’s position that will come under increased scrutiny should United exact their revenge and establish a ten-point advantage over the Merseyside club in the process.

The prospect of seeing their season unravel at Old Trafford of all places is enough to strike fear into the most ardent Liverpool fan. Henderson, though, views it as an opportunity to be grasped. “You can’t go in with that mentality,” the midfielder said. “You can’t go in and say if we lose, it’s going to be even worse. If we go there and win the game then, all of a sudden, it changes.”
 
Personally I think way too much significance is placed on the words out of the Managers mouth. It's just another excuse to vent.

Whatever, his words will pass into the ether in due course the same as all the other meaningless guff. If we we're winning he could conduct an interview in the style of Stanley Unwin and we'd all hail it as words from the messiah.



Hardly anything in the thread is about what comes out of his mouth.It's been about his coaching, his managerial decisions, his formations and his selections. And mostly from people who DON'T want him sacked. And we don't need 'an excuse to vent,' as you patronisingly put it. One would have to be a moron NOT to complain about the state of the club at present. I'm not sure why you're suddenly coming across as a giggling happy clappy Dalai Lama type, but there's no need for the air of superiority.
 
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