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"The System"

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keniget

keniget

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What's the deal here? What am I missing?

I hear a lot about the Rodgers system. That it's new, that certain players might struggle in it, that it will take time to see the best of it and I get all of that... in theory. When it comes to watching us on the pitch it all feels a bit Emperors new clothes.

I see a lot of passing, not much moving. I don't see the midfield working for each other and opening up space or hunting in packs effectively to get the ball back. In fact I don't think the midfield is working that well at all.

I recognize that there has been an emphasis placed on keeping the ball on the deck more, that the front three is more fluid and that as a product of having more techincal players in the side we have seen moments of nice interplay. Generally speaking however, I don't see THAT much difference between our play last season. We passed it a lot back then too and it often looked as devoid of inspiration and reliant on a bit of Suarez magic as it does this season.

This isn't a thread designed to have a go at Rodgers rather to understand him.

Help me out here.
 
Well it's a new system so maybe the players need more time to adapt? It could also be that we do not have the right players for the system, or that the 3 players in midfield are all going through a period of bad form at the same time. We have always only had one full back who looks comfortable in this system, i.e. Johnson. Wisdom is a solid defender but offers very little going forward.

I also dont see any hunting in packs when we lose the ball. Do we have the fitness for it?

I know many would disagree; but I also dont know if Gerrard suits this system. He needs to be more disciplined and stop trying to take on everything himself. Having said that, he could just be going through a bad patch of form and when he regains it we could see more of Rodgers' vision.
 
I am also concerned about our defense. Whenever we loose the ball the opposition appears to have acres of space to run into.
 
Its more like pass and lose than pass and move...

Our crossing today was awful, our corners atrocious and when they did make it over, there was either our smaller players here or no one in there. Sounds like a system designed for Andy Carroll
 
I know that we now pass the ball about 700 times during a match instead of about 400 or so last year.

I know that the ultimate philosophy is Death by Football™

I've noticed that not many goals are scored during this Death though.

 
This isn't Rodgers team. Players make a system and until it's his squad I think it's unfair to start this sort of assessment.

The only people who are wrong are those who expect a complete change with similar players. It's not going to happen. I do agree that 'the system' is too widely talk about though.

It's just playing footie well really.
 
We don't look all that different from last year.

The system is just an excuse for lots of players being shit
 
Rosco, just out of curiosity, and I am not sure if you have posted it before, who would you keep in the current squad? I would imagine it to be a very small list.
 
I thought the "system" meant to force our way through opposition press lines by establishing (and use) pass alternatives in between there pressing lines, and play us through using triangles. Yesterday we did not see one of those triangles. We have seen a bit of that play earlier in the season, but yesterday all the return passes came back to the original passer, and hence we did not go through their press lines.
 
DHSC said:
Rosco, just out of curiosity, and I am not sure if you have posted it before, who would you keep in the current squad? I would imagine it to be a very small list.
Click to expand...

Bar finding 500m to spend, we're years away from being competitive. For that reason I would only consider the good young players as must keeps - Shelvey, Sterling, Suso etc. I wouldn't be all that keen about hanging onto anyone over 27 right now, so when push came to shove with Agger and Skrtel I wouldn't have been keen on pay rises and long contracts - especially with Skrtel.

The players in their early to mid twenties, what happens with them is dependent on the financials.

Re signing players, we should continue signing for the long term. No Dempseys, Huntelaars etc.
 
I liked our goal yesterday. Enrique got bored of dicking about and sent a long ball over the top. He did it against Everton last week and Rahim should have scored. Do you think he got bollocked?
 
The system does my fucking head in. 4-3-3 is clearly not working with the personnel we have, it needs to be mixed up until we can get the right players in.
 
Woland said:
I liked our goal yesterday. Enrique got bored of dicking about and sent a long ball over the top. He did it against Everton last week and Rahim should have scored. Do you think he got bollocked?
Click to expand...

I think there are far more serious areas to bollock people than giving the surprise assist here and there.... I mean, the frame work should disqualify people from doing the obvious every now and then.
 
Woland said:
I liked our goal yesterday. Enrique got bored of dicking about and sent a long ball over the top. He did it against Everton last week and Rahim should have scored. Do you think he got bollocked?
Click to expand...

I was wondering if someone would point that out, we can try to play nice football or we can do things that work. I prefer the latter.

Trying to copy Barcelona is like a new dart player trying to copy Phil Taylor's throw - its unique and insanely difficult to perfect so your a fucking idiot if that's what you copy.
 
keniget said:
What's the deal here? What am I missing?

I hear a lot about the Rodgers system. That it's new, that certain players might struggle in it, that it will take time to see the best of it and I get all of that... in theory. When it comes to watching us on the pitch it all feels a bit Emperors new clothes.

I see a lot of passing, not much moving. I don't see the midfield working for each other and opening up space or hunting in packs effectively to get the ball back. In fact I don't think the midfield is working that well at all.

I recognize that there has been an emphasis placed on keeping the ball on the deck more, that the front three is more fluid and that as a product of having more techincal players in the side we have seen moments of nice interplay. Generally speaking however, I don't see THAT much difference between our play last season. We passed it a lot back then too and it often looked as devoid of inspiration and reliant on a bit of Suarez magic as it does this season.

This isn't a thread designed to have a go at Rodgers rather to understand him.

Help me out here.
Click to expand...

I kind of agree, only for the added bonus of two up and coming wide players, it really would be more of the same, which sort of begs the question (given Rodgers was initially wary of throwing Sterling in), who would have played wide?

As for the middle, it's obvious two players are compensating for the lack of a natural DM, and it's having an impact on us in terms of movement, because two players are constantly too deep to pick the ball up and play an attacking pass. They have a bank of opposition midfielders infront of them and the ability to link up with the attack is virtually impossible. This in turn forces other players deep to come for the ball, so it does have an impact on what the preferred system allegedly is.

I've got to say aswell, but for Gerrard going wide, I don't see how nailed on it is that Lucas will come straight in, when we have to keep Shelvey, Şahin, Allen and Gerrard all playing regularly in three slots. I'm guessing he'll figure in the bigger games when fully fit again.
 
TheThingIs said:
This isn't Rodgers team. Players make a system and until it's his squad I think it's unfair to start this sort of assessment.
Click to expand...

hmm i'm not so sure , since he's been here he's banged on about how reina suits his system , how johnson is one of the best full backs in the world , how good agger is at bring it out and signed him to a new deal, Skrtel also , bought Allen who supposedly personifies everything he believes in , signed Şahin from Madrid , claimed suarez to be one of the best in the world and played Borini (another player he knows ) out wide when everyone else thinks he should be up front . Plus he's dropped experienced players for Sterling and Suso . So i'd say there's alot about this team that is his.
 
So him saying that existing high profile players are 'good' makes it 'his' team? He bought Allen, Borini and Şahin, that's three players. So a quarter of the side is his (and one of them isn't even figuring atm), he's also had to promote reserve players due to a lack of depth and funds. I'd say it's about as far from being his side as it could be. We need another striker or two, we need reinforcements in defense, and we have concerns over our goalkeeper.

He said nice things about Charlie Adam and Downing in the Summer, and others who were quite obviously not in his plans in the long run. So I don't see how that equates to it being 'his' team.
 
let's see how many he replaces in the next windows then .
 
Rosco said:
Bar finding 500m to spend, we're years away from being competitive. For that reason I would only consider the good young players as must keeps - Shelvey, Sterling, Suso etc. I wouldn't be all that keen about hanging onto anyone over 27 right now, so when push came to shove with Agger and Skrtel I wouldn't have been keen on pay rises and long contracts - especially with Skrtel.

The players in their early to mid twenties, what happens with them is dependent on the financials.

Re signing players, we should continue signing for the long term. No Dempseys, Huntelaars etc.
Click to expand...

What about Suarez? I am not being patronizing because on the one hand he's a fantastic player but on the other hand where does he fit in all this?
 
As Keni says there's a lot of passing and little movement. The latter normally comes about when players possess some game intelligence - players we seem to have a lack of at the moment
 
Sunny said:
As Keni says there's a lot of passing and little movement. The latter normally comes about when players possess some game intelligence - players we seem to have a lack of at the moment
Click to expand...
Sadly our formation and players limits that presently

Gerrard doesn't attack, neither does Allen and Şahin.

Suso doesn't have work rate

Sterling is still learning.

Luis is the only one who moves.
 
It's the midfield, the combination is too often wrong. Shelvey made poor decisions yesterday, but he's the only one who supports and moves off the ball, he's also one of few who picks the ball up and tries to be positive with it. I think Şahin might support more if given more license to.
 
I think Rodgers should try Henderson in the defensive midfield role until Lucas comes back. Even if he does an average job, the rollover effect is that we can play Allen/Şahin/Gerrard as 2 attacking midfielders.
 
mark1975 said:
It's the midfield, the combination is too often wrong. Shelvey made poor decisions yesterday, but he's the only one who supports and moves off the ball, he's also one of few who picks the ball up and tries to be positive with it. I think Şahin might support more if given more license to.
Click to expand...

i think Şahin was positive in his support in the weekend. It was a mistake to take him off instead of allen.
 
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