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United.

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rurikbird said:
Some thoughts on United. I can see Mourinho employing one of the 3 main systems, 4-2-3-1, 4-3-3 or 4-4-2 "diamond." Let's talk about each one in order.

4-2-3-1 would be the most balanced and most conductive to Mourinho's patented counter-attacking game, but it just doesn't fit United summer transfers and key players, unless Mourinho wants to walk into a bitter conflict right from the start. The first problem is that there is no satisfactory way Ibra, Rooney and Mkhitaryan can be on the pitch at the same time; none of them are any good on the wing and there are only 2 available spots in the middle. Also if that's the basic system, I don't know why United would want to buy Pogba, since in Mourinho's 4-2-3-1 both CMs sit in front of the defense and rarely join the attack – that's not what Pogba is about at all.

4-3-3 would perfectly suit Pogba and Ibra, but not many others. Once again Rooney would have to be either on the wing or on the bench, same for Mkhitaryan (he did play as a CM in Shakhtar, but I highly doubt that he is disciplined enough for that role in Mourinho's team. If he plays, it would be at #10 and nowhere else). And with Martial surely too young to win Mourinho's trust at this point, United have no great goal-scoring wingers who can support and play off Ibra the way Chelsea's wingers supported Drogba and Diego Costa. This system would also rely way too much on 35-year-old Ibra as the only striker capable of being a focal point in attack.

Finally there is 4-4-2 "diamond", not one of Mourinho's favorites but one he did use in the past, notably when trying to integrate Shevchenko into Chelsea's game (which failed). This system would allow for all 3 of Ibra, Rooney and Mkhitaryan to be on the pitch at the same time, while making good use on United's CMs (including the possible signings of Pogba or Matuidi) and attacking full-backs. This would mean the likes of Depay and Ashley Young would be frozen out of the first team (which wouldn't be such a great loss for them) and the only possible downside would be the relative lack of pace through the middle when Rooney and Ibra are playing alongside each other (which can be corrected by bringing on Martial or Rashford). I think this is the most likely route, given United's transfer strategy this summer, however this is Mourinho's least favored basic system and the only one that didn't win him the league in the past.

To conclude, I don't see United under Mourinho as an instant success. He will have to choose between alienating key players or using a system he himself doesn't trust; unlike 2004 Chelsea or 2008 Inter, the team has no obvious core of experienced players that fit into his style – their best talents are younger and it's well-known that Mou doesn't trust youth. There will be a lot of change and upheaval in the seasons ahead and the only way Mourinho can build a title-winning side out of this team will be by completely rebuilding it over the years and weathering all the storms that will come with it. I wouldn't necessarily bet against that, given the resources at his disposal, but he would need to show a new level of calmness and maturity to succeed at United.
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Good post.

I think Mourinho's done the weird thing of buying for a year in an attempt to just get them back in the top 4. There's no way he envisages this side carrying them forward for the next 4 or 5 years. Whilst he's bought good players, he hasn't bought any of Europe's young or prime-aged (sounds like a steak) superstars. He's paid top bill for Zlatan and Mkhitaryan because few others were prepared to pay those weekly sums for players.

There's no pace in the side, so I'm not sure how he's getting a 4-3-3 to work, and there's little width apart from what Shaw and maybe Darmian can offer from full-back.

I think they'll make top 4 - which is his sole aim - but it's won't be pretty. He'll then build an entirely new, younger side from next year onwards knowing they can attract better players, and he's had a year to work out the side.
 
Ryan said:
Good post.

I think Mourinho's done the weird thing of buying for a year in an attempt to just get them back in the top 4. There's no way he envisages this side carrying them forward for the next 4 or 5 years. Whilst he's bought good players, he hasn't bought any of Europe's young or prime-aged (sounds like a steak) superstars. He's paid top bill for Zlatan and Mkhitaryan because few others were prepared to pay those weekly sums for players.

There's no pace in the side, so I'm not sure how he's getting a 4-3-3 to work, and there's little width apart from what Shaw and maybe Darmian can offer from full-back.

I think they'll make top 4 - which is his sole aim - but it's won't be pretty. He'll then build an entirely new, younger side from next year onwards knowing they can attract better players, and he's had a year to work out the side.
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They'll be expected to challenge or win the League next season mate. No doubt about it.
 
Ryan said:
There's no pace in the side, so I'm not sure how he's getting a 4-3-3 to work, and there's little width apart from what Shaw and maybe Darmian can offer from full-back.
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Rashford and Martial are both rapid and both can play wide. I'd expect to see at least one of them start and the other come on most games. Shaw will add width and pace for sure from LB (assuming he can return to his best pre-injury form).
 
Frogfish said:
Rashford and Martial are both rapid and both can play wide. I'd expect to see at least one of them start and the other come on most games. Shaw will add width and pace for sure from LB (assuming he can return to his best pre-injury form).
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How many 18-20 year old wingers have Mourinho consistently used in the first team in his career? As far as I remember, the answer is none.
 
rurikbird said:
How many 18-20 year old wingers have Mourinho consistently used in the first team in his career? As far as I remember, the answer is none.
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If he's building his own team from scratch perhaps but he has to utilise what's at his disposal .. and both Martial and Rashford were impressive last season. I'd expect Martial to be a 1st team fixture on the left of Ibra and Rashford to get many games from the bench.
 
Frogfish said:
Rashford and Martial are both rapid and both can play wide. I'd expect to see at least one of them start and the other come on most games. Shaw will add width and pace for sure from LB (assuming he can return to his best pre-injury form).
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Is Rashford that quick? I'm not sure.

4-3-3 is best deployed when you want to counter attack, and if he's trying to shoe-horn Zlatan, Mkhitaryan and Rooney into side then they won't be counter attacking.
 
Ryan said:
Is Rashford that quick? I'm not sure.

4-3-3 is best deployed when you want to counter attack, and if he's trying to shoe-horn Zlatan, Mkhitaryan and Rooney into side then they won't be counter attacking.
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I think Rooney is in for a rough ride and can't see those three being played together. That's an incredibly pedestrian trio and I think we'll see Rooney sidelined and used as backup. Mourinho proved last season with Hazard that he is quite capable of benching current superstars, let alone ageing has-beens.
 
The big problem for them is that the so called golden generation will leak things to the media to get rid of Mourinho. They won't have any problem to get the juicy details. Zlatan won't like it a bit when his family get followed all over the place. When his kids is on the front page on The S*n. I won't be surprised if he leaves in January.

PSG had more or less total control of the French media when it comes down to pictures and stories about the team.

It will soon be total chaos.
 
Ryan said:
Good post.

I think Mourinho's done the weird thing of buying for a year in an attempt to just get them back in the top 4. There's no way he envisages this side carrying them forward for the next 4 or 5 years. Whilst he's bought good players, he hasn't bought any of Europe's young or prime-aged (sounds like a steak) superstars. He's paid top bill for Zlatan and Mkhitaryan because few others were prepared to pay those weekly sums for players.

There's no pace in the side, so I'm not sure how he's getting a 4-3-3 to work, and there's little width apart from what Shaw and maybe Darmian can offer from full-back.

I think they'll make top 4 - which is his sole aim - but it's won't be pretty. He'll then build an entirely new, younger side from next year onwards knowing they can attract better players, and he's had a year to work out the side.
Click to expand...

Mkhtaryan is quick. As is Martial.
 
Shadey said:
Zlatan "I want to be known as God" you feckin prick there's only one God and it ain't you!
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The Romans, Vikings and Greeks had hundreds of them. Hindus have 330 million. But I'm sure your god is the only one. And all those other religions are wrong.
 
Silver Sean said:
Go fuck yourself. It was a joke!
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No, his post was a joke. Yours was a dismal, misguided attempt at snarky religious humour, which failed on every single conceivable level, because you aimed it a person who was quite clearly referencing Robbie Fowler as the "one true God"

So, please, shut up before it gets any more embarrassing for you.
 
rurikbird said:
@ChastenedMUFC, any thoughts on United so far?
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It has been a while.

I reckon Mourinho will go with 433 if he can get Pogba. Something like this

-----------------De Gea
Darmian Bailly Smalling Shaw
-----Schneiderlin--- Carrick
----------------Pogba
Mkhitaryan------------Martial
------------------Zlatan

No place for Rooney IMO, he will get games as a CF but will be competing with Zlatan and Rashford. Possibility he could be off loaded in January but definitely next summer. Mourinho has said he prefers specialist rather than utility players, and Rooney is definitely a utility player these days. We won't get a massive amount for him given his wages but with the market as mental as it is we will find takers.

Second of the more defensive midfielder alongside Schneiderlin is a bit of a problem. We have plenty of options in Carrick, Schweinsteiger, Herrera, Fellani or even Fosu-Mensah. However none of them are outstanding.

Happy enough with most of the rest of the team everyone should be ok or at least deserves another chance under Mourinho.
 
ChastenedMUFC said:
It has been a while.

I reckon Mourinho will go with 433 if he can get Pogba. Something like this

-----------------De Gea
Darmian Bailly Smalling Shaw
-----Schneiderlin--- Carrick
----------------Pogba
Mkhitaryan------------Martial
------------------Zlatan

No place for Rooney IMO, he will get games as a CF but will be competing with Zlatan and Rashford. Possibility he could be off loaded in January but definitely next summer. Mourinho has said he prefers specialist rather than utility players, and Rooney is definitely a utility player these days. We won't get a massive amount for him given his wages but with the market as mental as it is we will find takers.

Second of the more defensive midfielder alongside Schneiderlin is a bit of a problem. We have plenty of options in Carrick, Schweinsteiger, Herrera, Fellani or even Fosu-Mensah. However none of them are outstanding.

Happy enough with most of the rest of the team everyone should be ok or at least deserves another chance under Mourinho.
Click to expand...
There are still obvious weaknesses in that team though, all over the pitch in fact. Even with Pogba (if you end up buying him) carrying them in midfield, Carrick (35, touching 36 by the season's end) is never going to be a consistent or regular starter (even last season he was regularly subbed off before the end of the match) and Schneiderlin is a problem having underperformed since his arrival. You'll be hoping Mourinho and Pogba can bring him back to form but in many ways he is too similar to Pogba, a ball-winning B2B player at heart.

There is also an awful lot of responsibility on two ageing (read: old) centre forwards (Ibra 35, Rooney 35) with really your only other option moving Martial inside. Even we have better CF options than that, and we will likely be playing at least 10 games less than you this coming season.

I also don't agree 433 is the best foil for the players you have either. Especially for Mkhitaryan who could be key to your style and form. I agree with Rurikbird's excellent OP analysis here #110 . 4-2-3-1 is more than likely your best formation for the players you have. If we are talking about a regular starting lineup then I can foresee :

------------------ De Gea

Darmian --- Bailly --- Smalling -- Shaw

-------- Schneiderlin ----- Pogba

Rashford ------ Mkhitaryan --------- Martial
(or Lingard or Mata)
--------------------- Zlatan

The United squad is already bloated and getting bigger, you haven't even mentioned the likes of ; Jones, Rojo, Januzaj, Mata, Blind, Memphis, Schweinsteiger, Young, Lingard, Pereira, Kean, McNair, Borthwick-Johnson or Valencia. Mourinho, despite all his blustering, is going to kill off those youngsters for a start. Maybe only Rashford will see any serious match time apart from possibly in early LC rounds.
 
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