I'm not worried about him. He needs at least one or two summers before being judged.
We need to talk about Jurgen
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That's certainly important, too, but I think they sort of come hand in hand. Someone like Hendo, for example, will bustle about and fight, but far too often we just make really STUPID decisions, and get made to look silly by far less talented teams. So you're absolutely right, we need a backbone, but also some wit.
Look at Coutinho, for example - huge talent, a fair amount of fight, but my god he chooses such stupid passes more often than not. Same for Lallana - lovely player in many ways, and his work rate is excellent, and he isn't timid, but again, what incredibly silly decisions he makes.
It's often overlooked by outsiders, but the great Liverpool teams didn't just have top class players, and tough players, but they were also really, really clever - Kenny, Souness, Hansen, Molby, etc: they knew every trick, every insight, every tactical trick.
Too often in games you'll watch us build an attack and then think, 'Oh for feck's sake, why did you do THAT?' It must drive Klopp absolutely crazy. It's why one-dimensional coaches like Pulis look so good against us: they come up with really basic tactics to frustrate us, and it works! I bet many other managers just think, 'It's so easy to freak that bunch out. Just give them something unexpected or really taxing, and they go into a daze'.
So we certainly need stronger wills, but also sharper wits.
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That's why I expect him to stick with what he has unless he knows the player coming in.
I think we really underestimate his intelligence if we think that he wouldn't have known what to expect here.
Even in our mini-run when some fans hot carried away he kept calm and stated that we aren't title contenders by any means.
Until now he wasn't even able to bring in one single player that he wants and had to work with the dross Rodgers et al brought in.
Have some patience and faith FFS.
Even in our mini-run when some fans hot carried away he kept calm and stated that we aren't title contenders by any means.
Until now he wasn't even able to bring in one single player that he wants and had to work with the dross Rodgers et al brought in.
Have some patience and faith FFS.
Which would be bold because in order to succeed with this lot he will have to transplant their mentality.
I'm not worried about him and I very much doubt he's worried at all either.
Amidst all the media furore over his appointment and persona, one thing that strikes me about him is that he's above all a realist and a pragmatist. He knows it'll take time to change the shape, mentality and quality of the side, and even more time to get a changing squad carrying out his plans regularly.
He's inherited a talented but rather fragile squad somewhat ill suited in key positions to his footballing style and philosophy. It'll take time to both implement his vision and turn over enough players into a squad of his making and in his mould.
I think you're far more worried about him than he is about the task ahead, Lefty.
Amidst all the media furore over his appointment and persona, one thing that strikes me about him is that he's above all a realist and a pragmatist. He knows it'll take time to change the shape, mentality and quality of the side, and even more time to get a changing squad carrying out his plans regularly.
He's inherited a talented but rather fragile squad somewhat ill suited in key positions to his footballing style and philosophy. It'll take time to both implement his vision and turn over enough players into a squad of his making and in his mould.
I think you're far more worried about him than he is about the task ahead, Lefty.
He took a big risk coming to Liverpool and taking on a massive job but having done that there is no going back for him really. He needs to try make it work - he doesn't seem like the surrendering type.
As for the touchline antics, my understanding is that they were a common feature of his reign in Germany. He's not all teeth and fist pumps.
As for the touchline antics, my understanding is that they were a common feature of his reign in Germany. He's not all teeth and fist pumps.
He's been in the job ten minutes.
Let him make his mark and if he walks away prematurely then he's obviously not the man for us.
But, personally, I think he's in it for the long haul. He didn't turn Dortmund round in 3 months. I'm not sure why he'd expect to with us.
Let him make his mark and if he walks away prematurely then he's obviously not the man for us.
But, personally, I think he's in it for the long haul. He didn't turn Dortmund round in 3 months. I'm not sure why he'd expect to with us.
I'm even more convinced by Klopp now. I love the fact that he's getting so pissed off with the players being so useless.
I went apeshit when I saw us stand off them to cross for the first goal. Its just basics like that which mean this crop of players will achieve fuck all.
I went apeshit when I saw us stand off them to cross for the first goal. Its just basics like that which mean this crop of players will achieve fuck all.
Klopp knew that Liverpool is a challenge, he knew about the British Press, Klopp has been assured funds to fix the damage and he gets paid £5million pounds a year.
I've stopped expecting us to win enough to be in the top 4 and just want us to end up in the top 6. Unlike many of you I don't expect Klopp to sign anyone because he has said that he doesn't want anyone.
He is putting faith in players and hopefully they will repay his loyalty, as the players don't have hunger and Klopp has asked them where is their hunger?
In certain areas of the pitch it's all lacking, including ability.
Lucas, Sakho, Firmino, Mignolet and Lallana aren't good enough and never will be
We need a new goalkeeper, CB, central midfielder and quick attacking wide forward at the very minimum, but we've needed those players for a lot longer than Klopp's been in charge
I suppose some people like me were a bit annoyed at his constant talking up of the lacklustre squad, some dreadful starting selections, his repeated assertions that he doesn't need new players when we all knew he did, and the frankly idiotic belief that he was some kind of footballing alchemist that could turn base metals into gold, or a shit player into a great one.
His occasionally over enthusiastic actions, spats with managers/ officials etc and emotional outbursts are again nothing to do with us, or this country. He's acting in exactly the same way as he always has, and always will. Who cares anyway?
But He won't win anything without major investment into the team. But again, most of us knew that already, because it was fucking obvious
He's a far superior manager to Rodgers and it's still very pleasing (and gratifying) that we managed to attract one of the best managers in the world, which I think he is, but nobody could win the league with these players
Yeah, he was the exact same in Germany.
But I don't think he took that big a risk joining us. What's the expectation? He will do better than Rodgers? You'd hope so.
We are still a big, rich club. OK, it's harder to win the title here than in Germany, but he will get money to spend, and more than he got at Dortmund. And there's always been a nice synchronicity between us, the city and Klopp, for lots of reasons, which is why most fans wanted him, and why it always seemed a likely destination for uni. At some point in his career. He seems a good fit.
You've said this before, but haven't backed it up with a direct quote yet. How about it?
[article]
"I can understand why everybody makes January transfers. It seems to be the only possibility everyone is satisfied with," he told BBC's Football Focus.
"It is impossible to say 'No, we won't do it'. I can understand that other people feel pressure.
"It is better to do something than to stay together so you can buy somebody and say 'I tried'.
"You take a player for a horrible or crazy price to say 'we did it', and not be sure he can help you, because you cannot be sure."
[/article]
In the full interview he said it was a huge gamble buying in January, because you cant be sure the player will work out, he finds easier to work with what he has. He also said, The best time is in the summer as you don't have the pressure or the next game .
Even prior to the window he said when pressed by the press about jan signings, he asked the press how would they like it if their employers brought in other stuff to do their jobs?
Thats why I am not expecting too much activity
"I can understand why everybody makes January transfers. It seems to be the only possibility everyone is satisfied with," he told BBC's Football Focus.
"It is impossible to say 'No, we won't do it'. I can understand that other people feel pressure.
"It is better to do something than to stay together so you can buy somebody and say 'I tried'.
"You take a player for a horrible or crazy price to say 'we did it', and not be sure he can help you, because you cannot be sure."
[/article]
In the full interview he said it was a huge gamble buying in January, because you cant be sure the player will work out, he finds easier to work with what he has. He also said, The best time is in the summer as you don't have the pressure or the next game .
Even prior to the window he said when pressed by the press about jan signings, he asked the press how would they like it if their employers brought in other stuff to do their jobs?
Thats why I am not expecting too much activity
I'm not expecting much because most clubs don't do much. The one time we've spent lots of money was when Chelsea bought Torres and we wasted most of it on Carroll, because we were desperate to save face and spend money.
Usually we don't spend huge amounts. We could certainly do with at least two big signings but who is available and who would FSG allow us to buy? We've spent all the money and won't get a massive amount more unless we sell a Torres or a Sterling, but there's nobody in our squad worth that sort of cash anyway. Our most saleable assets are Coutinho, Benteke, Henderson and Sturridge and the latter two are injured and certainly not going anywhere.
Apart from maybe Can and Clyne nobody else is worth much
There is money available. According to the journos there is quite a lot of money available aswell.
But if Klopp cant get his preferred targets until the summer he surely wont do anything, which is a good thing. We need to buy the right type of players going forward. Not the second or third best alternative.
But if Klopp cant get his preferred targets until the summer he surely wont do anything, which is a good thing. We need to buy the right type of players going forward. Not the second or third best alternative.
Im not worried about Klopp in the slightest, i think we are onto a winner with him i really do...
What i am concerned about is one fit striker out of 4 more or less all season and two good midfielders out and skrtel out with a game every three fucking days... and injured fringe players...
We took a beating...
I just want a fit firing squad and to see what he can do with one.
What i am concerned about is one fit striker out of 4 more or less all season and two good midfielders out and skrtel out with a game every three fucking days... and injured fringe players...
We took a beating...
I just want a fit firing squad and to see what he can do with one.
You're more of a stick than carrot man, I see
I don't think anyone is doubting Klopp's managerial and coaching abilities.
I really love this new manager of ours. He is taking action and making changes as we fans would like to see in the team. Who can argue with his selection today - I know some have said Ibe for Lallana may have been a mistake but I certainly get that he chose Ibe for the right reasons. The very fact that he is German assures me that he has nerves of steel, and better resolve than most humans. I think also the type of players he will go out to get when the time comes will be definitely within our budgetary means as a club.
I know what the original poster of this thread is thinking - I think the frustration on his face when we lose or just come away with a narrow victory having dominated possession but create very few opportunities is really a challenge for him and the team to overcome. I think he realizes he has talent at his disposal (although many of his first choices are out injured right now) but the actual decision making of the team as a whole in the final third is what is letting his side down. The players are the only ones that can resolve this issue.
I know what the original poster of this thread is thinking - I think the frustration on his face when we lose or just come away with a narrow victory having dominated possession but create very few opportunities is really a challenge for him and the team to overcome. I think he realizes he has talent at his disposal (although many of his first choices are out injured right now) but the actual decision making of the team as a whole in the final third is what is letting his side down. The players are the only ones that can resolve this issue.
Perhaps the word "and" would serve in my previous post...
Although a real life firing squad may well prove motivational
Im not worried about him on a personal 'can he handle it level', hes made all the right noises so far and he basically called the team a bunch of pussies after the game yesterday, which is good to see. Hes got a fiery temperament and he will rub some people the wrong way, inside the club and out. So be it, the club seems to be stuffed full of people devoid of the sort of passion to take us to the very top.
The one reservation I have about him, and I had it before he joined, was whether hes flexible enough tactically. Was his last season at Dortmund a perfect storm of injuries and top players leaving or was he simply figured out by other managers? So far hes struggled badly against teams that have sat deep and tried to deny us space. He can expect to see that on a weekly basis now that its become an obvious achilles heel. Added to that hes put out a few sides, like yesterday, that you have to say were as clueless and disorientated as anything we saw in Rodgers time. Firmino and Benteke play like 2 guys who have never met before. A midfield of Can Lucas Ibe and Coutinho were always going to get bullied by West Ham. The learning curve is steep in the premier leauge, its up to Klopp to prove hes actually climbing it rather than repeating the same mistakes. Its going to be this time next year before we really have any idea what hes building here but judgement so far has to be reserved.
The one reservation I have about him, and I had it before he joined, was whether hes flexible enough tactically. Was his last season at Dortmund a perfect storm of injuries and top players leaving or was he simply figured out by other managers? So far hes struggled badly against teams that have sat deep and tried to deny us space. He can expect to see that on a weekly basis now that its become an obvious achilles heel. Added to that hes put out a few sides, like yesterday, that you have to say were as clueless and disorientated as anything we saw in Rodgers time. Firmino and Benteke play like 2 guys who have never met before. A midfield of Can Lucas Ibe and Coutinho were always going to get bullied by West Ham. The learning curve is steep in the premier leauge, its up to Klopp to prove hes actually climbing it rather than repeating the same mistakes. Its going to be this time next year before we really have any idea what hes building here but judgement so far has to be reserved.
Considering that the only other fit midfield option was Joe Allen and up front it was either Benteke or no one, I'd like to see how you would put out a less "clueless and disorientated" team in these circumstances.
As for tactical flexibility, indeed it's not Klopp's strength. When things are not working, someone like Rodgers would try 4-5 different formations and Klopp would pretty much stick to what he knows and just try to make the players perform better. There are upsides and downsides to each approach. That said, I don't think Klopp's system, when properly implemented, has a weakness against teams that defend deep – he would not win the Bundesliga twice in a row if he didn't find a solution.
I feel part of the problem with this team is that after the Rodgers years (and even Rafa years, although not many players remain), they are almost trained to lose in a certain way against a certain type of team and tactics; that's why it's so insanely frustrating for us fans because we've seen this movie time and time again going back way before Klopp. His biggest task right now is to undo all these years of negative training and instill in his players some belief that they can match and beat those physical, counter-attacking teams at their own game. But that won't happen until we actually get some players capable of playing fast counter-attacking football, the glimpses of which we saw in the 1:6 Southampton game.
His selection options were limited, his formation and tactical options were not. That wasnt a team with a plan, that was XI guys wearing the same colour shirt.
Good post, and neither am I. That's different from saying there won't be any at all, though. As others have indicated, it'll depend on whether Klopp can get the players he wants. If he can, he's clearly left the door open for doing so ("It's impossible to say 'No, we won't do it").
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