Why we don't need new signings this summer
- Thread starter rurikbird
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We need a couple of flair players period.
Those sort of wingers are usually around $20-$25m a go, I dont see us getting two of them. And i disagree with the OP we most definitely need fresh signings, our midfield is a shambles and we most definitely need another striker, one who actually scores goals rather than fixing his ponytail and heading the ball off the crossbar at every opportunity
I think the argument overall is a good one but some of the conclusions are flawed.
For example, Stewart Downing isn't a 20 year old newcomer to Europe like Dani Alves was when he joined Sevilla. He had a few years to find himself in La Liga. Downing, like more than a few of our squad members, are known quantities regardless of the system they're employed in. They may show an improvement, I'm not denying that (I'd be very disappointed if they didn't given the low benchmark they set last year), however I can't imagine a shift in footballing style will reveal some kind of hidden talents that nobody will see coming. Rodgers will know what he's dealing with.
And to implement the kind of system he had at Swansea (that is, if he's going to try and replicate it here 100%), he'll need to dip into the transfer market. Where is his Scott Sinclair in the current squad for example? You may look at Sterling, but I doubt Rodgers is willing to bet his reputation on a youngster from the reserves.
One of main problems in recent years has been the constant struggle to break down teams who are playing for a point. When you play a possession football game that problem becomes worse, not easier. Particularly when you're a top side and a) you have greater expectations of winning more games and b) teams are more likely to play very defensively against you. You need that extra burst of acceleration to get away from a defender and a few players capable of a bit of magic. We don't have those qualities in enough players right now.
For example, Stewart Downing isn't a 20 year old newcomer to Europe like Dani Alves was when he joined Sevilla. He had a few years to find himself in La Liga. Downing, like more than a few of our squad members, are known quantities regardless of the system they're employed in. They may show an improvement, I'm not denying that (I'd be very disappointed if they didn't given the low benchmark they set last year), however I can't imagine a shift in footballing style will reveal some kind of hidden talents that nobody will see coming. Rodgers will know what he's dealing with.
And to implement the kind of system he had at Swansea (that is, if he's going to try and replicate it here 100%), he'll need to dip into the transfer market. Where is his Scott Sinclair in the current squad for example? You may look at Sterling, but I doubt Rodgers is willing to bet his reputation on a youngster from the reserves.
One of main problems in recent years has been the constant struggle to break down teams who are playing for a point. When you play a possession football game that problem becomes worse, not easier. Particularly when you're a top side and a) you have greater expectations of winning more games and b) teams are more likely to play very defensively against you. You need that extra burst of acceleration to get away from a defender and a few players capable of a bit of magic. We don't have those qualities in enough players right now.
Definitely.
I think we had a lack of belief due to a lack of quality not a lack of quality due to lack of belief
We need (and needed) a couple more dangerous players in that side who can hurt opposition teams.
I hope that Rodgers can and will squeeze more performance out of the signings made last season, it is essential, but IMO we do need at least one more player who can scare an opponent and give the team a sharper edge. Goals and the lack thereof followed b the disapearance of our confidence fucked us last time out, granted we can increase the number of team goals we score in sweeping tiki taki epics but IMO we need a couple of players with a little bit more in the way of unstoppable EAT MY GOAL intent.
Assaidi and Boudebouz won't cost 25 million each. Obviously I have no idea how they would adapt to the premiership but they both have the raw materials.
We're not going to have so much money to play with that we can sign two wingers AND a creative midfielder AND more goal threat up front, which IMO is the highest priority of all. Magic and Sterling between them can take care of the right. We need a wide left player who can make things happen - and no, I do NOT see Suarez playing there, it would be a criminal waste to put him out wide.
Depends what you mean by "playing wide". If it's the same role as Barca's wing-forwards (wingers who cut inside rather than crossing into the box), then I don't see why not. After all, that's exactly the position he played at Ajax (I think he played on the right flank though), so that must be his most comfortable and familiar position.
Yes, unfortunately, after spending shit loads over the last 5 years or so. It's sad but true, as ever we're still a good three players away from being able to say we now look capable. As pointed out, Maxi, Kuyt and Bellamy need replacing. We're getting purple patches out of them, which would be great if they were just rotated players, but with Kuyt and Bellamy, we're still relying on them fairly heavily.
I doubt that, after 18 months not playing there. In any case, though, (a) I'm looking at what I've seen from him while he's been here, not at what position he may or may not have played in the past, and (b) I don't think we want "wing forwards" anyway. We need width, and wing forwards won't provide enough of that.
You are not the manager. Our new manager plays this way:
The width in positional attack is provided by the fullbacks.
A lot more interesting info on BR's tactical views here:
http://thepathismadebywalking.wordp...-will-liverpool-implement-tiki-taka-football/
I like the post as well; there's a few points I'd disagree with - particularly in terms of what style is currently proving the most effective but to focus on those would be to miss the point.
I largely agree that Rodgers can do a lot with what he's got but I don't believe he can do what needs to be done with what he's got. I haven't heard anything nor seen anything thus far to change my opinion from 6 months ago; we need two good, intelligent players who have great movement, can play intelligent passes and offer a goal threat.
The most obvious area for these players would be out wide though I'm ok with one coming into midfield.
I largely agree that Rodgers can do a lot with what he's got but I don't believe he can do what needs to be done with what he's got. I haven't heard anything nor seen anything thus far to change my opinion from 6 months ago; we need two good, intelligent players who have great movement, can play intelligent passes and offer a goal threat.
The most obvious area for these players would be out wide though I'm ok with one coming into midfield.
We need at least 4 new players for the 1st team.
Please do elaborate.
OK, I admit that my first post of this thread and the title was intentionally slightly provocative. I stand by my assertion that next season we should primarily rely on the players already at the club and try to find improvement mainly in terms of playing system and style, not new faces. But now, let's take a more detailed look at our team. Below is a tactical scheme that's the basis for our new manager's playing philosophy:
The scheme can change slightly (it can be modified into 3-4-3, for instance, if DM moves lower and FBs a little higher), but the overall shape and style remains the same. Now let's look at the players currently at our disposal and see if we can possibly fit all positions on the above scheme in satisfactory manner.
Obviously the goalkeeper is not an issue – Reina's distribution has always been a strength, so he will do well in a system that relies on the goalkeeper to be the 11th outfield player when we have the ball. Although whenever a goalkeeper tries to keep possession at all costs, we should be ready to forgive him some Valdes-style mishaps. It's an unavoidable side effect of Barca-style football.
In Agger and Skrtel we have a decent "Pique-Pujol" centre-back duo. However, were Agger to get injured, we don't really have another natural ball-playing CB to replace him with.
Attacking fullbacks. We got 'em. Johnson, Enrique, Kelly. Another left-footed FB wouldn't hurt, but overall we should be OK.
Deep-lying playmaker/DM. I think Lucas can do the job quite well. It's a Busquets position, not a Xavi one (the article is wrong, I think). We don't need Alonso-style passing from deep either. Not sure if Spearing can be an adequate backup though, his passing is suspect.
2 creative CMs. Gerrard, Henderson, Shelvey, Adam, Maxi and possibly Aquilani and Joe Cole. There seems to be enough interesting combinations to be found there. We can find out through trial and error which of them work best. Hopefully something will stick.
Inside forwards. That's where I admit we are a little short. Yes, we have a top class inside forward in Suarez. I think his game, with sudden starts and stops, fakes and turns, is built for a position on the wing of a 4-3-3. In the middle he gets a little carried away sometimes and overly complicates things. It's OK to be all tricky and deceptive near the byline (even if your trick fails, you still probably get a corner). But the middle requires more clarity and simplicity. So I really think Suarez is an inside forward and a great one at that. But who do we put on the other wing? Let's look at the candidates:
Bellamy - good player and will certainly be useful as an IF. But at 33 years old he is an option, not a starter.
Gerrard - I know some of you want him to play on the wing again. I have my doubts. He could play a forward in his peak years, but at 32 and with injury issues... I would only play him in the middle.
Kuyt - He did a decent job on the right wing for us over the years, but he didn't really play a wing-forward, more of a wide midfielder. It's important to note that in Holland he played centre-forward, not a winger. He was in the same category as Huntelaar, not Suarez. Frankly, I think Kuyt will struggle to fit into a side built on short passing game.
Downing - is a 4-4-2 winger, not an IF. Let's imagine that by some miracle Downing plays in Barcelona. Which position could he possibly play? Only the attacking full back, providing width and pinging crosses. It probably won't happen, but I will feel very proud if Rodgers proves my idea right.
Joe Cole - could be an option if he comes back and rediscovers his form. A big if.
Henderson, Maxi - not wing forwards.
Suso - hope he takes his chance!
Centre-forward. I don't imagine that Carroll is Brendan's dream number 9, but hey, it might work. It might even become an interesting development of the tiki-taka - something that Barca tried to do with Ibrahimovic, but failed (for personal, not football reasons). Our attacking CMs will have to work hard to collect all the knockdowns and practice shooting volleys. If we want a different look (an Alexis Sanches type #9), we can use Bellamy. Kuyt also can fill in, although I have a hard time imagining Kuyt at any position at Barcelona.
So, to summarize, to complete the team for Barca-style 4-3-3, we would need:
1) A starting inside forward (definitely, if we want to score regularly and not just keep the ball)
2) a back-up ball-playing central defender (good to have in case of injuries)
3) a back-up/starting striker (to challenge Carroll or create a different option)
4) a back-up defensive midfielder (in case of injury to Lucas)
I don't think it's possible to construct a perfect team in the first season, even if you spend a lot of money. So I would be patient; not all of these issues will have to necessarily be addressed THIS summer. And like I said, most of the improvement should come from internal resources, change of style and coaching. If we see this improvement after one full season, that's how we will know Brendan Rodgers is the manager we need.
The scheme can change slightly (it can be modified into 3-4-3, for instance, if DM moves lower and FBs a little higher), but the overall shape and style remains the same. Now let's look at the players currently at our disposal and see if we can possibly fit all positions on the above scheme in satisfactory manner.
Obviously the goalkeeper is not an issue – Reina's distribution has always been a strength, so he will do well in a system that relies on the goalkeeper to be the 11th outfield player when we have the ball. Although whenever a goalkeeper tries to keep possession at all costs, we should be ready to forgive him some Valdes-style mishaps. It's an unavoidable side effect of Barca-style football.
In Agger and Skrtel we have a decent "Pique-Pujol" centre-back duo. However, were Agger to get injured, we don't really have another natural ball-playing CB to replace him with.
Attacking fullbacks. We got 'em. Johnson, Enrique, Kelly. Another left-footed FB wouldn't hurt, but overall we should be OK.
Deep-lying playmaker/DM. I think Lucas can do the job quite well. It's a Busquets position, not a Xavi one (the article is wrong, I think). We don't need Alonso-style passing from deep either. Not sure if Spearing can be an adequate backup though, his passing is suspect.
2 creative CMs. Gerrard, Henderson, Shelvey, Adam, Maxi and possibly Aquilani and Joe Cole. There seems to be enough interesting combinations to be found there. We can find out through trial and error which of them work best. Hopefully something will stick.
Inside forwards. That's where I admit we are a little short. Yes, we have a top class inside forward in Suarez. I think his game, with sudden starts and stops, fakes and turns, is built for a position on the wing of a 4-3-3. In the middle he gets a little carried away sometimes and overly complicates things. It's OK to be all tricky and deceptive near the byline (even if your trick fails, you still probably get a corner). But the middle requires more clarity and simplicity. So I really think Suarez is an inside forward and a great one at that. But who do we put on the other wing? Let's look at the candidates:
Bellamy - good player and will certainly be useful as an IF. But at 33 years old he is an option, not a starter.
Gerrard - I know some of you want him to play on the wing again. I have my doubts. He could play a forward in his peak years, but at 32 and with injury issues... I would only play him in the middle.
Kuyt - He did a decent job on the right wing for us over the years, but he didn't really play a wing-forward, more of a wide midfielder. It's important to note that in Holland he played centre-forward, not a winger. He was in the same category as Huntelaar, not Suarez. Frankly, I think Kuyt will struggle to fit into a side built on short passing game.
Downing - is a 4-4-2 winger, not an IF. Let's imagine that by some miracle Downing plays in Barcelona. Which position could he possibly play? Only the attacking full back, providing width and pinging crosses. It probably won't happen, but I will feel very proud if Rodgers proves my idea right.
Joe Cole - could be an option if he comes back and rediscovers his form. A big if.
Henderson, Maxi - not wing forwards.
Suso - hope he takes his chance!
Centre-forward. I don't imagine that Carroll is Brendan's dream number 9, but hey, it might work. It might even become an interesting development of the tiki-taka - something that Barca tried to do with Ibrahimovic, but failed (for personal, not football reasons). Our attacking CMs will have to work hard to collect all the knockdowns and practice shooting volleys. If we want a different look (an Alexis Sanches type #9), we can use Bellamy. Kuyt also can fill in, although I have a hard time imagining Kuyt at any position at Barcelona.
So, to summarize, to complete the team for Barca-style 4-3-3, we would need:
1) A starting inside forward (definitely, if we want to score regularly and not just keep the ball)
2) a back-up ball-playing central defender (good to have in case of injuries)
3) a back-up/starting striker (to challenge Carroll or create a different option)
4) a back-up defensive midfielder (in case of injury to Lucas)
I don't think it's possible to construct a perfect team in the first season, even if you spend a lot of money. So I would be patient; not all of these issues will have to necessarily be addressed THIS summer. And like I said, most of the improvement should come from internal resources, change of style and coaching. If we see this improvement after one full season, that's how we will know Brendan Rodgers is the manager we need.
I get what your saying but just because we have some players who are "able" to play in those positions doesn't mean that they're good enough.
It's all about improving the team.
Tactics is step one.
Getting the right players, step two.
For instance the DM position, we only have Lucas. Spearing is clearly not good enough, hence why Allen or Elm wouldn't be a terrible buys.
We also need at least two wing-forwards. Most of the players I have in my signature can play that role. What we need are more Suarez/Garcia type players. That's mainly why I'd like us to buy Dos Santos.
It's all about improving the team.
Tactics is step one.
Getting the right players, step two.
For instance the DM position, we only have Lucas. Spearing is clearly not good enough, hence why Allen or Elm wouldn't be a terrible buys.
We also need at least two wing-forwards. Most of the players I have in my signature can play that role. What we need are more Suarez/Garcia type players. That's mainly why I'd like us to buy Dos Santos.
Ball playing CB's, Stewie Downing as a "Wing Back", Andy Carroll being at the apex of a system designed around slow, buildup and requiring high levels of technical ability, a creative midfield consisting if the mighty talents of Shelvey & Henderson and Steven Gerrard playing wherevers left to shoe him in, but probably in a wide area where he absolutely hates playing.
I hear what you're saying, but fuck me... Seriously....
I hear what you're saying, but fuck me... Seriously....
If Rodgers can get Graham to do well in his system, Carroll will aswell.
The lad has a good touch and he's bern good at keeping posession the last months. He also occupies 2-3 defenders on his own thus creating space for the other forwards.I think the goals will come aswell
The lad has a good touch and he's bern good at keeping posession the last months. He also occupies 2-3 defenders on his own thus creating space for the other forwards.I think the goals will come aswell
So long as we just sign Christian Eriksen and ensure no one leaves the club, i'll be very happy. We can make something out of this season.
Actually two out of the trio (Adam, Aquilani and Cole ) can leave....it's no big deal.
Actually two out of the trio (Adam, Aquilani and Cole ) can leave....it's no big deal.
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