• You may have to login or register before you can post and view our exclusive members only forums.
    To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

1/4 of the way through - or thereabouts

Forums Unread posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Rosco

Rosco

Worse than Brendan
Member
9th in the league.

Won three, drawn four, lost two. 13 points. Conceded 16 goals, scored 14.

We're not a million miles off where we should be, which for me is averaging 2 points a game. But it still feels like an impossible task for this team.

We do have Mane, Lallana and Clyne to return but i don't see them addressing our very obvious problems.
If anything having everyone fit will simply highlight the fact we've spent lots of money on our attack, but less than 10m on our defence under Klopp.

Its kinda hard to be positive about this team. We look like one of the worst coached teams in the league.
 
The spine of the team ( GK, CB, CM CF) is all wrong, none of the returning players will improve that although it's possible they may give us more balance.

We will have to limp on until January when at least 2 decent players need to be signed, unless a deal to take Keita early can be worked out. 3 games til the next international break, Huddersfield Maribor and West Ham, he's not going to get a better shot at 3 wins in a row to rebuild shattered confidence.

If we reach the point where 4th is unattainable then we need to start giving more time to Ward, Robertson, Solanke, Grujic, TAA and Woodburn. Might as well start bringing them through cosbthere really isn't alot ofn the first XI worth building around.
 
I think in every respect we're further behind the league's elite than at any time in my long memory. The two Manc clubs and Spurs are out of sight of this team (as their managers are of ours). We're scapping with Chelsea, Arsenal and possibly even Newcastle for fourth and I don't like our chances. I can see us finishing 6th at best and without a trophy...again. Klopp has been found out and I can't see him recovering his stature while with us. What a mess.
 
leftpeg said:
I think in every respect we're further behind the league's elite than at any time in my long memory. The two Manc clubs and Spurs are out of sight of this team (as their managers are of ours). We're scapping with Chelsea, Arsenal and possibly even Newcastle for fourth and I don't like our chances. I can see us finishing 6th at best and without a trophy...again. Klopp has been found out and I can't see him recovering his stature while with us. What a mess.
Click to expand...
Sorry but this is just pure bollocks. Newcastle ?! As if. Probably you've not been watching them !

Did you see us vs. United or against City before being reduced to 10 men ? Maybe against Arsenal ? Or any of our Euro games where we have only been let down by a poor conversion rate ? In fact in almost every PL match we've failed to win so far it's generally been the same story. poor conversion and individual errors at the back (or bad luck, offsides etc. but that happens).

The issue has been wastefulness at one end and a litany of individual errors at the other. However that said are we a million miles away from City ? Yes we are. But for the rest we are close, don't let one game, where one player losing his head spread nervousness throughout the team causing a meltdown, become a barometer of where we are at.

Of course not a single team has fantastic players in every position (though City are coming close), with many average players playing in title winning teams. Leicester ran away with the league with just a handful of high quality players and the rest were simply strong average players.

The core of our squad is good to excellent : Mane, Salah, Coutinho, Lallana, Clyne, Firmino and I'd go as far as to include Matip, Henderson, Wijnaldum, Gomez, Moreno (on this season's form), Ox and AA in that core list for next season. Our issue is with maybe 4 key positions which, with the right personnel, would change everything (imagine the team with Keita, VVD, and say Aurier, Aubameyang and Pickering since they were all available, we are not even talking world beaters). There would be screening for a strong back four. A confident and strong keeper, even if not the best in the world, a good (which could be superb on it's day) midfield and a mouth watering forward line with some decent cover on the bench. It would have given us something like :

.............................. Pickering

Clyne .........Matip ............... VVD ............ Aurier

................... Henderson ........ Keita

............................... Coutinho

Mane ................ Aubameyang ............. Salah

Karius, AA, Moreno, Gomez, Wijnaldum, Milner, Ox, Firmino, Sturridge, Solanke

So maybe we are 4 players short (highlighted, with Keita sorted). The frustration is will Klopp sort it with reliable transfers for those positions in bold in January / next Summer ? I've not yet lost faith, as many seem to have, given this season's very mixed results / performances.

Yeah I know, it's always next season. But we really aren't a million miles away and yes. we may lose Coutinho, or we may not.
 
leftpeg said:
I think in every respect we're further behind the league's elite than at any time in my long memory. The two Manc clubs and Spurs are out of sight of this team (as their managers are of ours). We're scapping with Chelsea, Arsenal and possibly even Newcastle for fourth and I don't like our chances. I can see us finishing 6th at best and without a trophy...again. Klopp has been found out and I can't see him recovering his stature while with us. What a mess.
Click to expand...

Well i expected us to struggle for the top four this season simply because of the extra demands of the CL. I certainly wasn't expecting a title challenge. So i'm not as down on account of league position as others might

What concerns me is the predictability of it all. We all knew we had keeper and centre back issues - nothing changes.

The world and its mother knows we're going to try to play the exact same way in every single game - with Pocchetino making sensible adjustments to nullify us.

On a weekly basis we're a disorganised mess hoping for Coutinho, Mane and Salah to find a way to win us a game.

I think even the Klopp die hards must be starting to realise that Dortmund's success lies at the feet of Zorc.
 
Quite. Especially galling, given the completely unnecessary AOC signing. We're only four players away? Who's fault is that?
 
  • Like
Reactions: mom
It's not just that the first team isn't good enough but that the squad players aren't good enough either. Klopp has shown a reluctance to build a squad through his short tenure with us and has said several times that he doesn't want to bring in a player who isn't good enough for the first team or better than what we currently have.
That would seem wise except that half of the players he has brought in aren't good enough for the first team judging by how often he selects them.
Klavan rarely gets a game (thankfully) , Robertson can't get much of a sniff, Karius looks a shit bag of nerves everytime he plays, Solanke is lucky to play 5 minutes every couple of games, Chamberlain is sent on when we're desperate.

The only signings he has faith in are Mane , Salah , Wijnaldum and Matip and with the last two I'm not sure he should have such faith as they've let him down plenty of times.
The teams we are trying to compete with at the top end of the league have squads that are far better and deeper than ours. The squad players at the club just aren't good enough and have proved that this season against Leicester in the League cup where their reserve team beat ours and last season in the FA Cup where we were dumped out by Wolves.
We signed four players in the summer (Salah, Solanke , Chamberlain and Robertson - not including Keita) and sold or loaned out Origi, Lucas , Sakho and Stewart so he hardly strengthened the squad at all especially when he won't or hasn't hardly played 3 of the new signings.
 
How many errors are individual mistakes? How many are systematic errors? How many individual errors are being caused due to the nature of the system (e.g. exposing players - or is that the same thing?)

This is going through my head. If we bring in better players, are we just going to see better players making mistakes too? Or is a large part of this due literally to the players who have signposted for a while that they are capable of game changing errors?

Urgh.
 
keniget said:
I'm guessing the Spurs game is the straw that broke the camels back for a lot of people because shit's got real on the forum since.
Click to expand...
Yes, that's exactly how I feel. Some will call it a knee-jerk reaction to one game but it isn't...it's cumulative effect and the realisation our manager has reached that point of no return. We'll hold on to him for too long now and while we do, we'll have some very good days but these will only serve to paper over the cracks.
 
I'm clinging to (a probably) naive hope that yesterday was the day Klopp realised he'd overestimated this defence.

As much of a trainwreck as Lovren was, did anyone else still get a huge shock when they saw he was being hooked after 30 mins? I couldn't believe Klopp was doing that. Not that it wasn't the absolutely correct thing to do, more that Klopp was actually fucking doing it. This is the guy that waits 80 mins to make any fucking substitution at all, sticks with the same front 3 every single week, and has backed Lovren - publicly - to the hilt.

I would never have thought he'd have dragged him. Ever. And then to not even acknowledge him as he came off? Looked to me like he couldn't even bring himself to look at him.

Maybe I'm being hopelessly optimistic, but I'm hoping that's the moment he realised.

I'd go with Gomez. He simply cannot be any worse. He's young, got talent, is going to make mistakes, etc.

Lovren's days are done. He's getting the Sturridge treatment from here forward methinks.
 
Yeah that's my thinking of it too. Though from someone who fucking hated Lovren's guts from the first day he swaggered into the club, it beggars belief it took him so long. Better late than never.
 
I hope so. It's Lovren's 4th season and he's largely been shite. He somehow managed to get a new contract after a handful of decent displays last season. I feel sorry for our defenders as times because it doesn't look like they're being coached well/at all, but you can't account for the kind of shit Lovren pulled yesterday. If it was a one-off game you'd give him the benefit of the doubt, but it's been happening for over 3 years.
 
I hate the idea of frequently changing managers - its small time. Klopp fits what our club from a cultural level - and I agree that I think this will have been the point where he thinks "something needs to change"

I wonder if he'll do the Conte style of resolution from last season when he saw them struggling at the back and moved to a back three.

We would struggle to fill a back 3 without having to use Lovren but I wouldn't be against moving Emre back there and having Matip, Gomez, Can as a back three. Potentially..

Hmmmm

Something has to give though - and I think even if only temporarily, we need to bolster the defence.
 
Frogfish said:
Sorry but this is just pure bollocks. Newcastle ?! As if. Probably you've not been watching them !

Did you see us vs. United or against City before being reduced to 10 men ? Maybe against Arsenal ? Or any of our Euro games where we have only been let down by a poor conversion rate ? In fact in almost every PL match we've failed to win so far it's generally been the same story. poor conversion and individual errors at the back (or bad luck, offsides etc. but that happens).

The issue has been wastefulness at one end and a litany of individual errors at the other. However that said are we a million miles away from City ? Yes we are. But for the rest we are close, don't let one game, where one player losing his head spread nervousness throughout the team causing a meltdown, become a barometer of where we are at.

Of course not a single team has fantastic players in every position (though City are coming close), with many average players playing in title winning teams. Leicester ran away with the league with just a handful of high quality players and the rest were simply strong average players.

The core of our squad is good to excellent : Mane, Salah, Coutinho, Lallana, Clyne, Firmino and I'd go as far as to include Matip, Henderson, Wijnaldum, Gomez, Moreno (on this season's form), Ox and AA in that core list for next season. Our issue is with maybe 4 key positions which, with the right personnel, would change everything (imagine the team with Keita, VVD, and say Aurier, Aubameyang and Pickering since they were all available, we are not even talking world beaters). There would be screening for a strong back four. A confident and strong keeper, even if not the best in the world, a good (which could be superb on it's day) midfield and a mouth watering forward line with some decent cover on the bench. It would have given us something like :

.............................. Pickering

Clyne .........Matip ............... VVD ............ Aurier

................... Henderson ........ Keita

............................... Coutinho

Mane ................ Aubameyang ............. Salah

Karius, AA, Moreno, Gomez, Wijnaldum, Milner, Ox, Firmino, Sturridge, Solanke

So maybe we are 4 players short (highlighted, with Keita sorted). The frustration is will Klopp sort it with reliable transfers for those positions in bold in January / next Summer ? I've not yet lost faith, as many seem to have, given this season's very mixed results / performances.

Yeah I know, it's always next season. But we really aren't a million miles away and yes. we may lose Coutinho, or we may not.
Click to expand...

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
 
If he's going to change the formation then surely playing two holding players would offer more protection to the back four. Not that we have any defensive midfielders left after selling Lucas and Stewart but 2 out of Henderson, Wijnaldum, Milner or Can would do for now.
This team might offer a better defensive shape but still offer some threat going forward

Ward
Arnold - Matip - Gomez - Moreno
Henderson - Can
Salah Coutinho Chamberlain
Firmino

There are alternatives to nearly all the places in that system and only Salah and Coutinho are untouchable in the team for me at the moment, all the rest of them haven't justified their place enough this season.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Dreambeliever
Where would you rank the 2025 LFC Champions
2
Replies
40
Views
1K
jexykrodic
jexykrodic
the count
  • Locked
Are we the Cunts..........................
Replies
8
Views
623
Whaddapie
Whaddapie
Squiggles
  • Locked
Weekends Other Games 31-8-24
2 3 4 5
Replies
138
Views
3K
Mamma Mia
Mamma Mia
Red Astaire
    • Like
    • Love
  • Locked
Let me sing the ways.... Klopp!
Replies
23
Views
677
Beamrider
Beamrider
Squiggles
    • Like
  • Locked
Other PL Games 24-25/08/2024
2 3 4 5 6
Replies
156
Views
4K
CueEye
C
Back
Top Bottom