A thought on AC

[Mystic]

[quote author=Hardcastle link=topic=48182.msg1461693#msg1461693 date=1326276060]
Your all gonna look silly when carroll kick starts his Euro 2012 selection campaign tonight with two goals.
[/quote]

I think most of us would gladly wear a jester hat covered in condoms if that were to be the case!

 

[Mystic]

btw Andy's agent has crushed this rumour.

 

[justdoit]

It has never been confirmed but anyone remember the reported 25% sell on fee? If it's true £25M nominal fee becomes £18.75M which is not that far off £15M reported. I doubt anyone would bid him for £25M anyway!

 

[spider-Neil]

even though pete and ryan can't hide their obvious GLEE that their predictions have come to pass I haven't written off carroll yet. he needs a run and when he gains confidence he'll start banging them in (goals rather than drinks) left and right.
rather better that andy is a success here because if we sell we are going to get hammered down on price.

 

[gkmacca]

I don't see why he was a panic buy. I wanted us to buy him for ages before he did. He has the attributes to be a terrifying forward, and I can't think of anyone better than Kenny to get him to realise his potential. Torres forced us into buying him sooner than we wanted and at a vastly inflated price, but that's not a 'panic buy' as such. I still want to see him stay and start improving. You can't always guarantee a young player is going to mature, but I'd hate to see him throw away this chance.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

Given what we paid for him, and given what we'd get for him, and given how much money we have, there is no way we're selling him. And it'd be a mistake if we did. We'd be better off spending what ever money it takes to get him off booze and getting the most out of him.

 

[spider-Neil]

he is definately in last chance saloon especially with suarez not available but with gerrard supplying better service fingers crossed he takes his chance.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=48182.msg1461707#msg1461707 date=1326277847]
Given what we paid for him, and given what we'd get for him, and given how much money we have, there is no way we're selling him. And it'd be a mistake if we did. We'd be better off spending what ever money it takes to get him off booze and getting the most out of him.
[/quote]

totally agree.
a rule of sabermetrics is buy a player with problems and then fix those problems.

 

[The Slugmonster]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=48182.msg1461710#msg1461710 date=1326278007]
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=48182.msg1461707#msg1461707 date=1326277847]
Given what we paid for him, and given what we'd get for him, and given how much money we have, there is no way we're selling him. And it'd be a mistake if we did. We'd be better off spending what ever money it takes to get him off booze and getting the most out of him.
[/quote]

totally agree.
a rule of sabermetrics is buy a player with problems and then fix those problems.
[/quote]

For 35 million...it should of been someone with Maradona sized skill and problems!

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=The Skrtmonster link=topic=48182.msg1461712#msg1461712 date=1326278152]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=48182.msg1461710#msg1461710 date=1326278007]
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=48182.msg1461707#msg1461707 date=1326277847]
Given what we paid for him, and given what we'd get for him, and given how much money we have, there is no way we're selling him. And it'd be a mistake if we did. We'd be better off spending what ever money it takes to get him off booze and getting the most out of him.
[/quote]

totally agree.
a rule of sabermetrics is buy a player with problems and then fix those problems.
[/quote]

For 35 million...it should of been someone with Maradona sized skill and problems!
[/quote]
yeah well, quite.

 

[jon545660]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=48182.msg1#msg1 date=1326278007]
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=48182.msg1461707#msg1461707 date=1326277847]
Given what we paid for him, and given what we'd get for him, and given how much money we have, there is no way we're selling him. And it'd be a mistake if we did. We'd be better off spending what ever money it takes to get him off booze and getting the most out of him.
[/quote]

totally agree.
a rule of sabermetrics is buy a player with problems and then fix those problems.
[/quote]
Isn't the idea of buying a player with problems is that they should be cheaper?

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

If Carroll was clean he would have cost us 70m.

 

[the_khl]

[quote author=jon545660 link=topic=48182.msg1461736#msg1461736 date=1326280275]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=48182.msg1#msg1 date=1326278007]
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=48182.msg1461707#msg1461707 date=1326277847]
Given what we paid for him, and given what we'd get for him, and given how much money we have, there is no way we're selling him. And it'd be a mistake if we did. We'd be better off spending what ever money it takes to get him off booze and getting the most out of him.
[/quote]

totally agree.
a rule of sabermetrics is buy a player with problems and then fix those problems.
[/quote]
Isn't the idea of buying a player with problems is that they should be cheaper?
[/quote]
It is. But as we only paid that kind of money for Carroll as we ourselves got even more for Torres, that's still within the rules of 'moneyball' if I'm not mistaken?

 

[Sunny]

[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=48182.msg1461704#msg1461704 date=1326277723]
I don't see why he was a panic buy. I wanted us to buy him for ages before he did. He has the attributes to be a terrifying forward, and I can't think of anyone better than Kenny to get him to realise his potential. Torres forced us into buying him sooner than we wanted and at a vastly inflated price, but that's not a 'panic buy' as such. I still want to see him stay and start improving. You can't always guarantee a young player is going to mature, but I'd hate to see him throw away this chance.
[/quote]

I do think it was a panic buy given the price we paid macca. I agree with your point about him having the attributes to be a powerful player and with others saying he needs a run of games - I didnt understand when he never started against Oldham for example. His attitude seems to be the main issue for me though - it may be a maturity thing and he needs to overcome that fast.

 

[RedZeppelin]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=48182.msg1461702#msg1461702 date=1326277458]
even though pete and ryan can't hide their obvious GLEE that their predictions have come to pass I haven't written off carroll yet. he needs a run and when he gains confidence he'll start banging them in (goals rather than drinks) left and right.
rather better that andy is a success here because if we sell we are going to get hammered down on price.
[/quote]

i agree he needs games but that's what pisses me off , why isn't he getting any ? Is there a plan to help him or are they stumped on how to even get him going ? i'd have no problem being patient if there were signs that something was being worked on , but if he's not being played much how is he going to get to where we want him ? .

Obviously i understand the argument that nobody is bigger than the team but if people are saying he'll improve , how will he if he's not getting games , what are they doing to make this work .

 

[spider-Neil]

I don't get the drining mentality of some players. you have maybe 10 years (give or take) to make as much money as possible and win as many medals as possible. drinking in your 20's is only are you shortening your playing career.

 

[PaulGorst]

[quote author=KHL link=topic=48182.msg1461687#msg1461687 date=1326275406]
Imagine if Ryan showed Carroll the same patience as he did with Lucas.

He's been disappointing so far this Season agreed but come on, he's not the first and nor the last player that needs time to adjust. In Carroll's case not only to a new style of football, a new club but also the fact he's suddenly one of the worlds most expensive players ever. Only because of Chelski's silly money but still, that's a fact, and something that'll probably take the breath out of most when it first settles in.

Give the lad at least some time to adjust and perhaps who knows he'll might one day turn good. Like Lucas has seemingly done after years and years of mediocrity. The new Gerrard he was NOT but he's still turned out very useful.

Carroll can as well.
[/quote]

I like the fact KHL is firmly behind Carroll, cause I am too.
Let's stop playing silly beggars, its 99% unlikely that we're going to sell him for £20m less a year after we bought him.
Persist with him, give him some serious game time instead of the stingy eight-12 minutes he's been getting before Suarez got banned and we'll start to see the lad that looked a beast for Newcastle.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

While I agree to an extent, I wouldn't be playing him until he proves himself off the pitch.

 

[doctor_mac]

Kenny needs to revive his chaperoning thing with Carroll. Taking him to Alton towers or a gig if he's been good, and grounding him with no xbox privileges when he's been naughty.

 

[peterhague]

i'm still not quite sure why most people are giving Kenny all the blame for this, btw. as i've said before, he'd been back about 3 weeks and wasn't even a permanent employee - is it really plausible that FSG gave him the go-ahead to spend £35m?! surely Comolli had more than a bit to do with it.

 

[Squiggles]

[quote author=KHL link=topic=48182.msg1461687#msg1461687 date=1326275406]
Imagine if Ryan showed Carroll the same patience as he did with Lucas.

He's been disappointing so far this Season agreed but come on, he's not the first and nor the last player that needs time to adjust. In Carroll's case not only to a new style of football, a new club but also the fact he's suddenly one of the worlds most expensive players ever. Only because of Chelski's silly money but still, that's a fact, and something that'll probably take the breath out of most when it first settles in.

Give the lad at least some time to adjust and perhaps who knows he'll might one day turn good. Like Lucas has seemingly done after years and years of mediocrity. The new Gerrard he was NOT but he's still turned out very useful.

Carroll can as well.
[/quote]

Ryan showed patience in Lucas because it was clear that he was an extremely good professional who was trying his hardest all of the time.

Comparing Lucas and Carroll is mental.

 

[Sunny]

I think it's a fair point you're making Kris but Squiggles has hit it on the head. Lucas doesn't go out and get leathered on a regular occasion. I wonder why this is the reason he's not playing regularly ? I'm purely speculating here but if Carroll was turning up to training stinking of ale then what picture does it show to the other players if Kenny was to play him.

I don't know of course but that picture of him out the game is worrying. I mean, everyone goes out and gets bevvied from time to time but to get it that kind of state where you fall asleep/fall over is pretty worrying considering he's a fair body mass and is a supposedly a professional footy player.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=48182.msg1461828#msg1461828 date=1326287743]
[quote author=KHL link=topic=48182.msg1461687#msg1461687 date=1326275406]
Imagine if Ryan showed Carroll the same patience as he did with Lucas.

He's been disappointing so far this Season agreed but come on, he's not the first and nor the last player that needs time to adjust. In Carroll's case not only to a new style of football, a new club but also the fact he's suddenly one of the worlds most expensive players ever. Only because of Chelski's silly money but still, that's a fact, and something that'll probably take the breath out of most when it first settles in.

Give the lad at least some time to adjust and perhaps who knows he'll might one day turn good. Like Lucas has seemingly done after years and years of mediocrity. The new Gerrard he was NOT but he's still turned out very useful.

Carroll can as well.
[/quote]

Ryan showed patience in Lucas because it was clear that he was an extremely good professional who was trying his hardest all of the time.

Comparing Lucas and Carroll is mental.
[/quote]

I have a small amount of patience for every player I see who has some ability and in carroll I see someone who could be devastating if he applied himself. I no where near writing off carroll. I see it as the team and carroll have to each other half way, by that I mean we have to mix things up a bit and swing in crosses every now and then and carroll has to try and improve his play outside of the box, neither of which is impossible if they are willing to work at it.
even if I had called carroll being utter dross I wouldn't be happy about it as carroll is better than he is showing and 35m is a fuck of a lot of money.

 

[Sunny]

Andy Carrolls biggest problem is himself.

 

[Squiggles]

[quote author=Sunny link=topic=48182.msg1461836#msg1461836 date=1326288109]
Andy Carrolls biggest problem is himself.
[/quote]

You're underestimating his pony tail.

 

[Sunny]

and that as well.

 

[Insignificance]

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=48182.msg1461839#msg1461839 date=1326288363]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=48182.msg1461836#msg1461836 date=1326288109]
Andy Carrolls biggest problem is himself.
[/quote]

You're underestimating his pony tail.
[/quote]

Ah come on... A pony tail never did Voronin no harm!!!!

 

[Squiggles]

 

[peterhague]

even though i don't much rate him as a player, i'd still agree that his biggest problem is his mentality. we were fucking insane to gamble on a character like him. it could hardly be worse: thick, immature, feckless, lazy, drunken, unambitious. in fact the only way it could be worse would be if all this was plain to see when we signed him. which it was.

oh well.

he's like gazza without the talent.

 

[cochyn]

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=48182.msg1461828#msg1461828 date=1326287743]
Comparing Lucas and Carroll is mental.
[/quote]

I know your right that the comparison is ridiculous, but dont you think AC deserves to be given more time and some help to solve his problems. ok and ultimatum may be necessary.