'Big Story'
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I don't believe it will kill the league anywhere near as much as a lot of you're saying. Stoke didn't beat us because they had more money than us, likewise I think it's unfair to attribute all of Barca's success to the money they receive. TV rights won't kill the league, in fact I'm not that against it. Maybe a complimentary system of a general premier league package and if a club wishes, they could release there own more inclusive deals as well. There are other, bigger problems with football. Ticket prices being the big one for me, there should be ~£25 tickets available for games, maybe a return to the a safe terrace stadium (as discussed) could allow this?
They have this in Spain and they've had more different winners of the league in the past 10 years than England have.
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=47157.msg1411259#msg1411259 date=1318412870]
They have this in Spain and they've had more different winners of the league in the past 10 years than England have.
[/quote]
Nope. They've had 3. Same as here. But Madrid and Barca didn't get their massive deals until after Valencia won it - and you can't see anyone getting within 20 points any time soon.
I think it would lead to an even worse situation than in Spain where 6 La Liga clubs are in admin. Thing is they got into admin always having had this kind of TV setup. Here, the clubs have all got players on massive contracts, even the smallest clubs, and still no one bar Arse makes a profit - so if they lose any of their TV money they are doomed from day 1.
I suppose the clubs deserve it. As distinct from the fans. They've all been run by idiots and that's why they all lose so much money, continually caving in to player's demands.
Whatevers.
They have this in Spain and they've had more different winners of the league in the past 10 years than England have.
[/quote]
Nope. They've had 3. Same as here. But Madrid and Barca didn't get their massive deals until after Valencia won it - and you can't see anyone getting within 20 points any time soon.
I think it would lead to an even worse situation than in Spain where 6 La Liga clubs are in admin. Thing is they got into admin always having had this kind of TV setup. Here, the clubs have all got players on massive contracts, even the smallest clubs, and still no one bar Arse makes a profit - so if they lose any of their TV money they are doomed from day 1.
I suppose the clubs deserve it. As distinct from the fans. They've all been run by idiots and that's why they all lose so much money, continually caving in to player's demands.
Whatevers.
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=47157.msg1411256#msg1411256 date=1318412578]
I don't want to subsidize Everton, come on this will sink the fuckers, its only Premiere League cash thats keeping them afloat
[/quote]
Exactly what we'd be doing if we were ever to agree to a groundshare BTW.
I don't want to subsidize Everton, come on this will sink the fuckers, its only Premiere League cash thats keeping them afloat
[/quote]
Exactly what we'd be doing if we were ever to agree to a groundshare BTW.
I have not read it in depth but I get the drift, but as Gene pointed out, it's Liverpool looking after Liverpool. You can't have your cake and eat it, we can either sit around waiting for another Sheik Mansour, or Russian con-man to pop in and chuck money at us like those two squalid little clubs did, or we can trade on what we have earned over years of being a great football club, and that is our marketing power. Loads of you have bleated on and on and on for years that we have never made the most of our potential marketing, Moores and Parry this, Hicks and Gillett that....Well here it is our Golden Token.
It is the only real way we are going to realistically compete with Chelsea, City, United, Barca , Madrid or any other two bit club that pops up with funny money. As Ryan said we have a two tier, system now, well at the moment it is three but it soon will be two, and we could well be in tier two.
The genie has already been let out of the bottle years ago with the Premier League, and it happened at the wrong time for us and we were left standing, we may as well try and be part of something.
I remember all the same arguments then from other clubs, we liked it becuase we thought we would do well out of it (haha)
As for all this what about the smaller clubs business................ it's survival of the fittest, Christ on a bike, if John Henry had not popped up with his evil ideas we would be well on our way to that stage ourselves.
There are too many leagues in this country, with too many professional and semi-professional players, it needs a shake up lower down, have you heard the full classified results , it goes on for hours..
I want Liverpool to compete and get back at the top, and frankly with a few exception I really don't mind how we do it, if it's capitalising on TV and our world pulling power then fucking go for it.
regards
It is the only real way we are going to realistically compete with Chelsea, City, United, Barca , Madrid or any other two bit club that pops up with funny money. As Ryan said we have a two tier, system now, well at the moment it is three but it soon will be two, and we could well be in tier two.
The genie has already been let out of the bottle years ago with the Premier League, and it happened at the wrong time for us and we were left standing, we may as well try and be part of something.
I remember all the same arguments then from other clubs, we liked it becuase we thought we would do well out of it (haha)
As for all this what about the smaller clubs business................ it's survival of the fittest, Christ on a bike, if John Henry had not popped up with his evil ideas we would be well on our way to that stage ourselves.
There are too many leagues in this country, with too many professional and semi-professional players, it needs a shake up lower down, have you heard the full classified results , it goes on for hours..
I want Liverpool to compete and get back at the top, and frankly with a few exception I really don't mind how we do it, if it's capitalising on TV and our world pulling power then fucking go for it.
regards
What do we have now though? United winning year in year out being chased
Occasionally by the two oil pumps. The system we already have is broken completely, there is no parity in any way whatsoever. I see no reason why we as a club with a global appeal should not be able to sell our TV rights individually, it is the only way we can compete and it would most likely have stopped the shenanigans at Chelsea and City from happening in the first place.
Occasionally by the two oil pumps. The system we already have is broken completely, there is no parity in any way whatsoever. I see no reason why we as a club with a global appeal should not be able to sell our TV rights individually, it is the only way we can compete and it would most likely have stopped the shenanigans at Chelsea and City from happening in the first place.
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=47157.msg1411276#msg1411276 date=1318415643]
I have not read it in depth but I get the drift, but as Gene pointed out, it's Liverpool looking after Liverpool. You can't have your cake and eat it, we can either sit around waiting for another Sheik Mansour, or Russian con-man to pop in and chuck money at us like those two squalid little clubs did, or we can trade on what we have earned over years of being a great football club, and that is our marketing power. Loads of you have bleated on and on and on for years that we have never made the most of our potential marketing, Moores and Parry this, Hicks and Gillett that....Well here it is our Golden Token.
It is the only real way we are going to realistically compete with Chelsea, City, United, Barca , Madrid or any other two bit club that pops up with funny money. As Ryan said we have a two tier, system now, well at the moment it is three but it soon will be two, and we could well be in tier two.
The genie has already been let out of the bottle years ago with the Premier League, and it happened at the wrong time for us and we were left standing, we may as well try and be part of something.
I remember all the same arguments then from other clubs, we liked it becuase we thought we would do well out of it (haha)
As for all this what about the smaller clubs business................ it's survival of the fittest, Christ on a bike, if John Henry had not popped up with his evil ideas we would be well on our way to that stage ourselves.
There are too many leagues in this country, with too many professional and semi-professional players, it needs a shake up lower down, have you heard the full classified results , it goes on for hours..
I want Liverpool to compete and get back at the top, and frankly with a few exception I really don't mind how we do it, if it's capitalising on TV and our world pulling power then fucking go for it.
regards
[/quote]
Great post mate.
I have not read it in depth but I get the drift, but as Gene pointed out, it's Liverpool looking after Liverpool. You can't have your cake and eat it, we can either sit around waiting for another Sheik Mansour, or Russian con-man to pop in and chuck money at us like those two squalid little clubs did, or we can trade on what we have earned over years of being a great football club, and that is our marketing power. Loads of you have bleated on and on and on for years that we have never made the most of our potential marketing, Moores and Parry this, Hicks and Gillett that....Well here it is our Golden Token.
It is the only real way we are going to realistically compete with Chelsea, City, United, Barca , Madrid or any other two bit club that pops up with funny money. As Ryan said we have a two tier, system now, well at the moment it is three but it soon will be two, and we could well be in tier two.
The genie has already been let out of the bottle years ago with the Premier League, and it happened at the wrong time for us and we were left standing, we may as well try and be part of something.
I remember all the same arguments then from other clubs, we liked it becuase we thought we would do well out of it (haha)
As for all this what about the smaller clubs business................ it's survival of the fittest, Christ on a bike, if John Henry had not popped up with his evil ideas we would be well on our way to that stage ourselves.
There are too many leagues in this country, with too many professional and semi-professional players, it needs a shake up lower down, have you heard the full classified results , it goes on for hours..
I want Liverpool to compete and get back at the top, and frankly with a few exception I really don't mind how we do it, if it's capitalising on TV and our world pulling power then fucking go for it.
regards
[/quote]
Great post mate.
[quote author=Molbystwin link=topic=46904.msg1400218#msg1400218 date=1316294899]
The hoo-ha here in Spain recently was spectacularly Spanish but nonetheless interesting. The Villareal chairman, a fella called Roig {side note i've unfortunately met the geezer and taught his progeny and his is an utter tool of a man, responsible for a chain a superstores, I dislike him enough to wish him ill or at least that someone shits in his ear while he sleeps} After Villareal got a pasting by Real he basically spat the dummy over the disparity in La Liga and convened a meeting with numerous other chairmen of the top flight clubs, the meeting was invite only and Real and Barca were not invited. The meeting revolved around the fact that in Spain due to Real and Barca being able to negotiate unilateral TV rights agreements meant the rest of the league was not only massively inferior on the pitch but once proud clubs were fundamentally now "feeder clubs" unable to retain their best players. Players who whether avaricious young men or not are nonetheless compelled to join one of the big two in order to win anything in their careers. So far so what? Footy is great yeah! ....
Roig, cunt that he is, suggested something so outrageously brave that it would never come to pass but nonetheless would work, he said that any team that facing one of the big two should field a youth side or a B team and take the beating, because in essence all other teams were just that. How much would the TV companies be willing to pay to the big two if it was literally a procession of massive wins against financially subdued opponents? Would people still want to watch? Would the advertising slots be sold? At its base being what use is the rest of the league if i can hardly dream of competing?
Of course it wont happen, nobody is that courageous, but then the situation we are in now is so financially twisted that maybe it should, maybe it would take a collective action by so called "lesser" clubs to cut through all the hype and the greed and point out that in actuality it isnt right what is happening, player power is off the scale fed by big businnes and greed and it no longer is a game because there no longer exists any kind of fair competition.
[/quote]
This is what the Henry apologists want.
The hoo-ha here in Spain recently was spectacularly Spanish but nonetheless interesting. The Villareal chairman, a fella called Roig {side note i've unfortunately met the geezer and taught his progeny and his is an utter tool of a man, responsible for a chain a superstores, I dislike him enough to wish him ill or at least that someone shits in his ear while he sleeps} After Villareal got a pasting by Real he basically spat the dummy over the disparity in La Liga and convened a meeting with numerous other chairmen of the top flight clubs, the meeting was invite only and Real and Barca were not invited. The meeting revolved around the fact that in Spain due to Real and Barca being able to negotiate unilateral TV rights agreements meant the rest of the league was not only massively inferior on the pitch but once proud clubs were fundamentally now "feeder clubs" unable to retain their best players. Players who whether avaricious young men or not are nonetheless compelled to join one of the big two in order to win anything in their careers. So far so what? Footy is great yeah! ....
Roig, cunt that he is, suggested something so outrageously brave that it would never come to pass but nonetheless would work, he said that any team that facing one of the big two should field a youth side or a B team and take the beating, because in essence all other teams were just that. How much would the TV companies be willing to pay to the big two if it was literally a procession of massive wins against financially subdued opponents? Would people still want to watch? Would the advertising slots be sold? At its base being what use is the rest of the league if i can hardly dream of competing?
Of course it wont happen, nobody is that courageous, but then the situation we are in now is so financially twisted that maybe it should, maybe it would take a collective action by so called "lesser" clubs to cut through all the hype and the greed and point out that in actuality it isnt right what is happening, player power is off the scale fed by big businnes and greed and it no longer is a game because there no longer exists any kind of fair competition.
[/quote]
This is what the Henry apologists want.
Agree with Vlad , Molby, Farky and Gene. There are two pots of revenue for the PL TV rights - domestic and international. The domestic TV rights is split as follows:
25% is paid in merit payments determined by where a club finishes in the final league table;
50% of the domestic revenue is split equally;
100% of the non-domestic revenue is split equally among the clubs.
25% is paid in facility fees, based on how often a club is shown on TV in the U.K., with each club guaranteed a minimum of 10 facility fees.
http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2010/02/10/la-liga-to-follow-premier-league-television-revenue-sharing-model/
The international TV rights pot is split equally among all clubs irrespective of exposure. When the TV right split rule was being formulated The international TV rights money was a minor fraction of the domestic TV rights. Now the international TV rights money is equal or greater than the domestic TV rights. In a lot of foreign countries I have visited the pubs are normally packed for LFC, Man U games; there is decent turn out for Arsenal, Chelsea games and there is barely anyone for the rest. If not individual TV rights, I dont see why Ian Ayre, John Henry should not question the current split.
For all of their uproar, if Bolton,Fulham and Everton were a major global brands instead of us and Man U I am sure their CEO's will be releasing statements trying to squeeze out every additional penny out of us. It is not as if the smaller clubs use the money for grassroots football and community development; they use their money to overpay their players.
More than the TV rights, the bigger issue is Sheikh Mansour, Abramovich, and the lack of any sort of evaluation process which prevents crazy owners from buying clubs and saddling them with debt. If the playing field was a bit more level, I don't think we would have felt the need to go after this pot.
25% is paid in merit payments determined by where a club finishes in the final league table;
50% of the domestic revenue is split equally;
100% of the non-domestic revenue is split equally among the clubs.
25% is paid in facility fees, based on how often a club is shown on TV in the U.K., with each club guaranteed a minimum of 10 facility fees.
http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2010/02/10/la-liga-to-follow-premier-league-television-revenue-sharing-model/
The international TV rights pot is split equally among all clubs irrespective of exposure. When the TV right split rule was being formulated The international TV rights money was a minor fraction of the domestic TV rights. Now the international TV rights money is equal or greater than the domestic TV rights. In a lot of foreign countries I have visited the pubs are normally packed for LFC, Man U games; there is decent turn out for Arsenal, Chelsea games and there is barely anyone for the rest. If not individual TV rights, I dont see why Ian Ayre, John Henry should not question the current split.
For all of their uproar, if Bolton,Fulham and Everton were a major global brands instead of us and Man U I am sure their CEO's will be releasing statements trying to squeeze out every additional penny out of us. It is not as if the smaller clubs use the money for grassroots football and community development; they use their money to overpay their players.
More than the TV rights, the bigger issue is Sheikh Mansour, Abramovich, and the lack of any sort of evaluation process which prevents crazy owners from buying clubs and saddling them with debt. If the playing field was a bit more level, I don't think we would have felt the need to go after this pot.
S
Squiggles
Guest
I agree that we're due a higher share of the overseas rights, but domestic rights should be shared out reasonably equally.
[quote author=Woland link=topic=47157.msg1411285#msg1411285 date=1318417826]
[quote author=Molbystwin link=topic=46904.msg1400218#msg1400218 date=1316294899]
The hoo-ha here in Spain recently was spectacularly Spanish but nonetheless interesting. The Villareal chairman, a fella called Roig {side note i've unfortunately met the geezer and taught his progeny and his is an utter tool of a man, responsible for a chain a superstores, I dislike him enough to wish him ill or at least that someone shits in his ear while he sleeps} After Villareal got a pasting by Real he basically spat the dummy over the disparity in La Liga and convened a meeting with numerous other chairmen of the top flight clubs, the meeting was invite only and Real and Barca were not invited. The meeting revolved around the fact that in Spain due to Real and Barca being able to negotiate unilateral TV rights agreements meant the rest of the league was not only massively inferior on the pitch but once proud clubs were fundamentally now "feeder clubs" unable to retain their best players. Players who whether avaricious young men or not are nonetheless compelled to join one of the big two in order to win anything in their careers. So far so what? Footy is great yeah! ....
Roig, cunt that he is, suggested something so outrageously brave that it would never come to pass but nonetheless would work, he said that any team that facing one of the big two should field a youth side or a B team and take the beating, because in essence all other teams were just that. How much would the TV companies be willing to pay to the big two if it was literally a procession of massive wins against financially subdued opponents? Would people still want to watch? Would the advertising slots be sold? At its base being what use is the rest of the league if i can hardly dream of competing?
Of course it wont happen, nobody is that courageous, but then the situation we are in now is so financially twisted that maybe it should, maybe it would take a collective action by so called "lesser" clubs to cut through all the hype and the greed and point out that in actuality it isnt right what is happening, player power is off the scale fed by big businnes and greed and it no longer is a game because there no longer exists any kind of fair competition.
[/quote]
This is what the Henry apologists want.
[/quote]
A Spanish League title is worthless at the moment. It's effectively who out of Madrid or Barca scores the most goals against the other 18 teams. That's not a fuckin League, it's pass and shoot on a grand scale. Utterly pointless. Barca win one week, Madrid draw; season over.
[quote author=Molbystwin link=topic=46904.msg1400218#msg1400218 date=1316294899]
The hoo-ha here in Spain recently was spectacularly Spanish but nonetheless interesting. The Villareal chairman, a fella called Roig {side note i've unfortunately met the geezer and taught his progeny and his is an utter tool of a man, responsible for a chain a superstores, I dislike him enough to wish him ill or at least that someone shits in his ear while he sleeps} After Villareal got a pasting by Real he basically spat the dummy over the disparity in La Liga and convened a meeting with numerous other chairmen of the top flight clubs, the meeting was invite only and Real and Barca were not invited. The meeting revolved around the fact that in Spain due to Real and Barca being able to negotiate unilateral TV rights agreements meant the rest of the league was not only massively inferior on the pitch but once proud clubs were fundamentally now "feeder clubs" unable to retain their best players. Players who whether avaricious young men or not are nonetheless compelled to join one of the big two in order to win anything in their careers. So far so what? Footy is great yeah! ....
Roig, cunt that he is, suggested something so outrageously brave that it would never come to pass but nonetheless would work, he said that any team that facing one of the big two should field a youth side or a B team and take the beating, because in essence all other teams were just that. How much would the TV companies be willing to pay to the big two if it was literally a procession of massive wins against financially subdued opponents? Would people still want to watch? Would the advertising slots be sold? At its base being what use is the rest of the league if i can hardly dream of competing?
Of course it wont happen, nobody is that courageous, but then the situation we are in now is so financially twisted that maybe it should, maybe it would take a collective action by so called "lesser" clubs to cut through all the hype and the greed and point out that in actuality it isnt right what is happening, player power is off the scale fed by big businnes and greed and it no longer is a game because there no longer exists any kind of fair competition.
[/quote]
This is what the Henry apologists want.
[/quote]
A Spanish League title is worthless at the moment. It's effectively who out of Madrid or Barca scores the most goals against the other 18 teams. That's not a fuckin League, it's pass and shoot on a grand scale. Utterly pointless. Barca win one week, Madrid draw; season over.
[quote author=Mystic link=topic=47157.msg1411257#msg1411257 date=1318412601]
I don't believe it will kill the league anywhere near as much as a lot of you're saying. Stoke didn't beat us because they had more money than us, likewise I think it's unfair to attribute all of Barca's success to the money they receive. TV rights won't kill the league, in fact I'm not that against it. Maybe a complimentary system of a general premier league package and if a club wishes, they could release there own more inclusive deals as well. There are other, bigger problems with football. Ticket prices being the big one for me, there should be ~£25 tickets available for games, maybe a return to the a safe terrace stadium (as discussed) could allow this?
[/quote]
Tickets are never going to be cheaper I don't believe unless the attendance drops off, "safe terracing" would only mean the other ticket prices would go up. Only another way to squeeze more money out, also I would hate to see terracing return. Modern stadiums can generate noise and passion without the need for terracing, not sure with all the cuts and recession, police can handle the extra issues that come with it.
I don't believe it will kill the league anywhere near as much as a lot of you're saying. Stoke didn't beat us because they had more money than us, likewise I think it's unfair to attribute all of Barca's success to the money they receive. TV rights won't kill the league, in fact I'm not that against it. Maybe a complimentary system of a general premier league package and if a club wishes, they could release there own more inclusive deals as well. There are other, bigger problems with football. Ticket prices being the big one for me, there should be ~£25 tickets available for games, maybe a return to the a safe terrace stadium (as discussed) could allow this?
[/quote]
Tickets are never going to be cheaper I don't believe unless the attendance drops off, "safe terracing" would only mean the other ticket prices would go up. Only another way to squeeze more money out, also I would hate to see terracing return. Modern stadiums can generate noise and passion without the need for terracing, not sure with all the cuts and recession, police can handle the extra issues that come with it.
Not sure if I would hate to see terracing return, safe and managed well should not be an issue. Even safe terracing would increase ground capacity. Not saying I would return to terracing as I am a lazy old git and have done my share of standing on the Kop, it's a young persons thing.
regards
regards
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=47157.msg1411231#msg1411231 date=1318410060]
Fuck me, so many on here showing a lovely 'fuck you' attitude to smaller football clubs. Surprises me.
Without teams to play of a similar standard, or capable of competing at some level, football becomes dull & uninteresting, worse, predictable.
That's not to even factor in the long term damage to English football. I love the fact we have a huge amount of league clubs, & that I know loads of lads who have played lower league footy professionally, it means the dream of becoming a player is accessible. This deal & the inevitable domestic deal that would follow would kill some of those clubs off.
You may scoff & say if we can't beat them join them, or that's the nature of the modern game, or any other meaningless cliched platitude, but we would be destroying hundreds of football clubs, at many levels, breaking thousands of supporters hearts.
[/quote]
I agree with this
Fuck me, so many on here showing a lovely 'fuck you' attitude to smaller football clubs. Surprises me.
Without teams to play of a similar standard, or capable of competing at some level, football becomes dull & uninteresting, worse, predictable.
That's not to even factor in the long term damage to English football. I love the fact we have a huge amount of league clubs, & that I know loads of lads who have played lower league footy professionally, it means the dream of becoming a player is accessible. This deal & the inevitable domestic deal that would follow would kill some of those clubs off.
You may scoff & say if we can't beat them join them, or that's the nature of the modern game, or any other meaningless cliched platitude, but we would be destroying hundreds of football clubs, at many levels, breaking thousands of supporters hearts.
[/quote]
I agree with this
I would in an ideal world, but ours ain't. Am I willing to let our chance of staying in/rejoining the elite fall away for the sake of those smaller clubs? Sorry, but no.
I'd love a draft system like the US though, I have to admit. But more importantly, I just want us to be competitive, right at the top of the game. The reality is that right now that means $ because that's what you need to compete. We could be the best run club in the world and still never win the Champions league again because we just can't afford the top players.
R
RedZeppelin
Guest
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=47157.msg1411252#msg1411252 date=1318412430]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=47157.msg1411248#msg1411248 date=1318412096]
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=47157.msg1411231#msg1411231 date=1318410060]
Without teams to play of a similar standard, or capable of competing at some level, football becomes dull & uninteresting, worse, predictable.
[/quote]
Which is exactly what it's like right now anyway.
[/quote]
It's far off, but this & the 'end game' that's clearly envisaged would lead to a MASSIVE gap between the top 4 clubs & everyone else, whereas at least now clubs can hope to break into that & occasionally succeed.
Also, as I said, the long term effect would kill lower league football in this country, which is already struggling as the PL tv rights money isn't trickled down anywhere near enough.
[/quote]
how will this kill lower league football ? how exactly does the premier league tv rights money trickle down now ? Because some teams will get relegated and have these parachute payments ? The Premier league has been separate from the football league for some time now , surely it was the original break which threatened to kill lower league football .
And well if you mean people might only buy liverpool's games and not a general sports package like Sky now ...well it's a consumer market with consumer choice and always has been , it may not be right for the smaller clubs but if nobody is interested in them then what can you do . At the moment they survive because people are interested , if that changes well it's unfortunate and not my preference but so be it .
And the reaction to this from other club's fans is hilarious ...chelsea fans , a club who spit in the face of fair financial play , are even having a go !!
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=47157.msg1411248#msg1411248 date=1318412096]
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=47157.msg1411231#msg1411231 date=1318410060]
Without teams to play of a similar standard, or capable of competing at some level, football becomes dull & uninteresting, worse, predictable.
[/quote]
Which is exactly what it's like right now anyway.
[/quote]
It's far off, but this & the 'end game' that's clearly envisaged would lead to a MASSIVE gap between the top 4 clubs & everyone else, whereas at least now clubs can hope to break into that & occasionally succeed.
Also, as I said, the long term effect would kill lower league football in this country, which is already struggling as the PL tv rights money isn't trickled down anywhere near enough.
[/quote]
how will this kill lower league football ? how exactly does the premier league tv rights money trickle down now ? Because some teams will get relegated and have these parachute payments ? The Premier league has been separate from the football league for some time now , surely it was the original break which threatened to kill lower league football .
And well if you mean people might only buy liverpool's games and not a general sports package like Sky now ...well it's a consumer market with consumer choice and always has been , it may not be right for the smaller clubs but if nobody is interested in them then what can you do . At the moment they survive because people are interested , if that changes well it's unfortunate and not my preference but so be it .
And the reaction to this from other club's fans is hilarious ...chelsea fans , a club who spit in the face of fair financial play , are even having a go !!
R
RedZeppelin
Guest
[quote author=Bologna link=topic=47157.msg1411194#msg1411194 date=1318401750]
[quote author=RedZeppelin link=topic=47157.msg1411181#msg1411181 date=1318387923]
Ultimately at some stage I'd love to be able to just buy a package to watch all the Liverpool games . I've lost all interest in watching the other teams or 'Norwich V stoke' shite games . Obviously though i'd like this not to impact on the quality of the league so that would be the issue to solve somehow.
One thing I have never understood ....how are they able to show every single game live on German TV for half the price of Sky yet they still get full houses and the largest average attendances in Europe . Why can't they do that for the premier league ?
And i'm sorry but some of you need to face up to reality regarding our owners and modern football . Why would anyone bar some oligarch or sheik fool buy a club and just pour their own money into it ? Would you ? As long as they invest strongly into the team and we're successful I don't mind them making money . We'd all love for clubs to be owned by fans or the community but it's never been that way in British football and it will most likley never change . It's a pity but it's not like it wasn't always like this in some way .
[/quote]
The price of match tickets.
England ridicuously expensive, Germany relatively inexpensive.
[/quote]
no I understand that part ...it was more the 'great fear' of the premier league , that showing all the games means people won't be arsed going , that i don't get. Well obviously that's not the case if the clubs provide a fair priced experience .
[quote author=RedZeppelin link=topic=47157.msg1411181#msg1411181 date=1318387923]
Ultimately at some stage I'd love to be able to just buy a package to watch all the Liverpool games . I've lost all interest in watching the other teams or 'Norwich V stoke' shite games . Obviously though i'd like this not to impact on the quality of the league so that would be the issue to solve somehow.
One thing I have never understood ....how are they able to show every single game live on German TV for half the price of Sky yet they still get full houses and the largest average attendances in Europe . Why can't they do that for the premier league ?
And i'm sorry but some of you need to face up to reality regarding our owners and modern football . Why would anyone bar some oligarch or sheik fool buy a club and just pour their own money into it ? Would you ? As long as they invest strongly into the team and we're successful I don't mind them making money . We'd all love for clubs to be owned by fans or the community but it's never been that way in British football and it will most likley never change . It's a pity but it's not like it wasn't always like this in some way .
[/quote]
The price of match tickets.
England ridicuously expensive, Germany relatively inexpensive.
[/quote]
no I understand that part ...it was more the 'great fear' of the premier league , that showing all the games means people won't be arsed going , that i don't get. Well obviously that's not the case if the clubs provide a fair priced experience .
[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=47157.msg1411283#msg1411283 date=1318417545]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=47157.msg1411276#msg1411276 date=1318415643]
I have not read it in depth but I get the drift, but as Gene pointed out, it's Liverpool looking after Liverpool. You can't have your cake and eat it, we can either sit around waiting for another Sheik Mansour, or Russian con-man to pop in and chuck money at us like those two squalid little clubs did, or we can trade on what we have earned over years of being a great football club, and that is our marketing power. Loads of you have bleated on and on and on for years that we have never made the most of our potential marketing, Moores and Parry this, Hicks and Gillett that....Well here it is our Golden Token.
It is the only real way we are going to realistically compete with Chelsea, City, United, Barca , Madrid or any other two bit club that pops up with funny money. As Ryan said we have a two tier, system now, well at the moment it is three but it soon will be two, and we could well be in tier two.
The genie has already been let out of the bottle years ago with the Premier League, and it happened at the wrong time for us and we were left standing, we may as well try and be part of something.
I remember all the same arguments then from other clubs, we liked it becuase we thought we would do well out of it (haha)
As for all this what about the smaller clubs business................ it's survival of the fittest, Christ on a bike, if John Henry had not popped up with his evil ideas we would be well on our way to that stage ourselves.
There are too many leagues in this country, with too many professional and semi-professional players, it needs a shake up lower down, have you heard the full classified results , it goes on for hours..
I want Liverpool to compete and get back at the top, and frankly with a few exception I really don't mind how we do it, if it's capitalising on TV and our world pulling power then fucking go for it.
regards
[/quote]
Great post mate.
[/quote]
awwww...........shucks :-[
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=47157.msg1411276#msg1411276 date=1318415643]
I have not read it in depth but I get the drift, but as Gene pointed out, it's Liverpool looking after Liverpool. You can't have your cake and eat it, we can either sit around waiting for another Sheik Mansour, or Russian con-man to pop in and chuck money at us like those two squalid little clubs did, or we can trade on what we have earned over years of being a great football club, and that is our marketing power. Loads of you have bleated on and on and on for years that we have never made the most of our potential marketing, Moores and Parry this, Hicks and Gillett that....Well here it is our Golden Token.
It is the only real way we are going to realistically compete with Chelsea, City, United, Barca , Madrid or any other two bit club that pops up with funny money. As Ryan said we have a two tier, system now, well at the moment it is three but it soon will be two, and we could well be in tier two.
The genie has already been let out of the bottle years ago with the Premier League, and it happened at the wrong time for us and we were left standing, we may as well try and be part of something.
I remember all the same arguments then from other clubs, we liked it becuase we thought we would do well out of it (haha)
As for all this what about the smaller clubs business................ it's survival of the fittest, Christ on a bike, if John Henry had not popped up with his evil ideas we would be well on our way to that stage ourselves.
There are too many leagues in this country, with too many professional and semi-professional players, it needs a shake up lower down, have you heard the full classified results , it goes on for hours..
I want Liverpool to compete and get back at the top, and frankly with a few exception I really don't mind how we do it, if it's capitalising on TV and our world pulling power then fucking go for it.
regards
[/quote]
Great post mate.
[/quote]
awwww...........shucks :-[
In any competitive endeavour you need an edge of some sort to be a consistent winner. In trading you need information no one else has, in chess you need superior analytical ability and experience, and in retail a good location can be crucial. Liverpool's edge is its fans. Our owners cant compete with City and Chelsea's in terms of financial clout in the current situation. That is really bad for us, because having lots of money to throw at players is obviously a massive, massive edge. But we do have lots of fans, which can provide more £££ and make us more competitive. It may make you queasy to see how important money has become in football, but it is the new reality, and we need to look after ourselves. What Henry/Ayre is doing is only logical. It would be nice if things were different, but they are not. So while we wait for the revolution we need to get our hands dirty if we still want to be a winning club.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/oct/12/manchester-united-chelsea-liverpool-breakaway
Manchester United and Chelsea refuse to back Liverpool breakaway plan
Manchester United and Chelsea are among several clubs who have moved to distance themselves from Liverpool's proposal to break from the Premier League's model of collecting television rights revenue.
It is understood that Manchester United, who claim to have 333m fans globally and have targeted overseas sponsorship revenue as a route to increase income, will oppose any moves to challenge the status quo under which the Premier League sells television rights overseas on behalf of all 20 elite clubs.
A spokesman for Chelsea said: "We are supportive of the Premier League on this and want to continue with the way they sell [TV rights] collectively."
United insiders pointed out that their chief executive, David Gill, had repeatedly underlined the support of the club's owners, the Glazer family, for the collective model. Appearing before a parliamentary inquiry earlier this year, Gill said: "The collective selling of the television rights has clearly been a success and it has made things more competitive."
It is understood that Arsenal, Manchester City and Tottenham Hotspur will continue to back the existing arrangement that last season paid each club £17.9m.
The public stance of other big clubs will come as a disappointment to Liverpool, who were understood to believe that others would support them. Liverpool's managing director, Ian Ayre, said that clubs in other countries, notably Real Madrid and Barcelona in Spain, have a growing financial advantage over English clubs because they secure TV deals individually.
Without the support of those who stand to benefit most the idea would be dead in the water, because none of the League's smaller clubs would vote for something that would hugely disadvantage them.
Overseas revenues could outstrip the domestic deal, currently worth £2.1bn over three years, for the first time when the Premier League launches its tender process next year.
Liverpool would need to persuade 13 of their fellow Premier League clubs of the merit of the plan in order to force through the change since any significant change to the Premier League rulebook requires a two thirds majority.
Ayre became the first representative of a leading Premier League club since Peter Kenyon at Manchester United in 2003 to challenge the collective sale of overseas TV rights, which brought in £1.4bn over the three years to 2012-13.
Ayre said: "Is it right that the international rights are shared equally between all the clubs? Some people will say: 'Well you've got to all be in it to make it happen.' But isn't it really about where the revenue is coming from, which is the broadcaster, and isn't it really about who people want to watch on that channel? We know it is us. And others.
"At some point we feel there has to be some rebalance on that, because what we are actually doing is disadvantaging ourselves against other big European clubs."
Manchester United and Chelsea refuse to back Liverpool breakaway plan
Manchester United and Chelsea are among several clubs who have moved to distance themselves from Liverpool's proposal to break from the Premier League's model of collecting television rights revenue.
It is understood that Manchester United, who claim to have 333m fans globally and have targeted overseas sponsorship revenue as a route to increase income, will oppose any moves to challenge the status quo under which the Premier League sells television rights overseas on behalf of all 20 elite clubs.
A spokesman for Chelsea said: "We are supportive of the Premier League on this and want to continue with the way they sell [TV rights] collectively."
United insiders pointed out that their chief executive, David Gill, had repeatedly underlined the support of the club's owners, the Glazer family, for the collective model. Appearing before a parliamentary inquiry earlier this year, Gill said: "The collective selling of the television rights has clearly been a success and it has made things more competitive."
It is understood that Arsenal, Manchester City and Tottenham Hotspur will continue to back the existing arrangement that last season paid each club £17.9m.
The public stance of other big clubs will come as a disappointment to Liverpool, who were understood to believe that others would support them. Liverpool's managing director, Ian Ayre, said that clubs in other countries, notably Real Madrid and Barcelona in Spain, have a growing financial advantage over English clubs because they secure TV deals individually.
Without the support of those who stand to benefit most the idea would be dead in the water, because none of the League's smaller clubs would vote for something that would hugely disadvantage them.
Overseas revenues could outstrip the domestic deal, currently worth £2.1bn over three years, for the first time when the Premier League launches its tender process next year.
Liverpool would need to persuade 13 of their fellow Premier League clubs of the merit of the plan in order to force through the change since any significant change to the Premier League rulebook requires a two thirds majority.
Ayre became the first representative of a leading Premier League club since Peter Kenyon at Manchester United in 2003 to challenge the collective sale of overseas TV rights, which brought in £1.4bn over the three years to 2012-13.
Ayre said: "Is it right that the international rights are shared equally between all the clubs? Some people will say: 'Well you've got to all be in it to make it happen.' But isn't it really about where the revenue is coming from, which is the broadcaster, and isn't it really about who people want to watch on that channel? We know it is us. And others.
"At some point we feel there has to be some rebalance on that, because what we are actually doing is disadvantaging ourselves against other big European clubs."
[quote author=Woland link=topic=47157.msg1411352#msg1411352 date=1318434814]
I can't believe our yanks didn't square it off with their yanks before they went public.
[/quote]
They probably did. The glazers probably pissed themselves laughing as we went public first only to deny all knowledge.
I can't believe our yanks didn't square it off with their yanks before they went public.
[/quote]
They probably did. The glazers probably pissed themselves laughing as we went public first only to deny all knowledge.
Putting aside the romanticsm of sticking up for the smaller clubs, looking at it from a business angle (and at the end of the day that's what we are), the idea that we get the same wedge as someone like Wigan is bizarre.
The Mancs and the Chavs can manage without doing this for now. Let's wait and see how long they hold out though.
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